I countered with a quick, simple answer, but know there are many better ways to reply to this idiot. What does the membership here have to say?The only use a lever action has is nostalgia. Much like a revolver, time has produced better designed firearms. Very few if any arguments can be made why a lever gun or revolver would be beneficial over a newer design gun.
Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
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Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
I was looking in another forum and a thread started about the Henry lever gun that now has a loading gate. I stayed out of the ensuing argument and saw this;
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Never get in a discussion with a close minded troll. Its a waste of time and is like wrestling a pig in mud, you get dirty and the pig enjoys it. YMMV Todd/3leg
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres
250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
.
Nostalgia ? ?
Does the troll know that hundreds of thousands new leverguns have been sold since the "newer designs" made their appearance ?
Todd's right, though - there's no arguing with "stupid"...……….
.
Nostalgia ? ?
Does the troll know that hundreds of thousands new leverguns have been sold since the "newer designs" made their appearance ?
Todd's right, though - there's no arguing with "stupid"...……….
.
Last edited by Pete44ru on Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Technically I suppose they are correct. Autoloaders have come a long way in the last couple decades, they are capable of firing very powerful rounds and of being very accurate and detachable box magazines load much faster than tube magazines. I guess however that I am a nostalgic type as I much prefer levers and bolts to other action types.
One area where the lever has not been surpassed or even equalled by any other repeater is as a saddle gun. No repeating gun period matches the lever for that! I should say scabbard as these days it's more likely a scabbard be attached to a 4 wheeler or be placed behind the seat of a pickup rather than actually strapped to a saddle.
One area where the lever has not been surpassed or even equalled by any other repeater is as a saddle gun. No repeating gun period matches the lever for that! I should say scabbard as these days it's more likely a scabbard be attached to a 4 wheeler or be placed behind the seat of a pickup rather than actually strapped to a saddle.
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Yep, agree 100%! But I believe there are at least two lever guns that use box/removable magazines? Henry Long Ranger and Browning BLR?
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Are framing hammers used only for their "nostalgia" value because we have nail guns? I think not.
If the object is a reliable tool to hunt with, leverguns -- and bolt actions that essentially date to the 1870s -- are still excellent choices.
As to revolvers, does this bozo have access to a .480 semi-auto that he is not telling us about?
If the object is a reliable tool to hunt with, leverguns -- and bolt actions that essentially date to the 1870s -- are still excellent choices.
As to revolvers, does this bozo have access to a .480 semi-auto that he is not telling us about?
- crs
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Trolls are a waste of time.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
The best way to respond to someone who posts something like that is -- ignore him.
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
I don't believe this guy is a troll, I think he (arrogantly) believe he is correct...
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Nothing wrong with nostalgia . I own both new and old guns of all designs. When I hunt or just plink for fun,most of the time it’s with a lever gun.
- gamekeeper
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
I bet this guy has missed a lot of fun along the way, shooting should all be about enjoying the sport, be it with a superdooper plastic wizbang or a flintlock musket. I would just ignore him , over here we'd call him a twat....
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Never argue with an idiot....they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience....
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Likely a youngster, maybe not even old enough to purchase a firearm, that believes Matrix and John Wick are real live.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Gamekeeper, your term has a considerably more, um, colorful meaning here in the Colonies.
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Not to mention the Ruger Model 96/22 & Model 96/44 series, the Winchester Model 88, the Sako Finnewolf, and the Savage Model 99C.
.
- gamekeeper
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
I apologize if our common language or rather use of is sometimes misunderstood, the term is used frequently over here to describe opinionated know it alls....Bill in Oregon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:43 pm Gamekeeper, your term has a considerably more, um, colorful meaning here in the Colonies.
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Here we sometimes refer to them as twits, nitwits or just plain idiots.gamekeeper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:45 pmI apologize if our common language or rather use of is sometimes misunderstood, the term is used frequently over here to describe opinionated know it alls....Bill in Oregon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:43 pm Gamekeeper, your term has a considerably more, um, colorful meaning here in the Colonies.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
No harm, no foul, GK. As they say of the U.S. and the U.K., "two countries divided by a common language."
If I were to use twit and twat interchangeably here, I would likely be pilloried by #metoo militants ...
If I were to use twit and twat interchangeably here, I would likely be pilloried by #metoo militants ...
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
TWIT AND twat. Sounds like a new ice cream flavor
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Hunting it self is a homage to nostalgia. For what it costs me in time and money I can buy 10X as much beef, pork, chicken, turkey, etc in the freezer as I will get from a successful hunt. Just the wages I lose out on during the week I take off to deer hunt would pay for many times the amount of venison I bring home.
I guess my comment to that poster would be …… 'yeah ……… so what's your point?'
Wm
I guess my comment to that poster would be …… 'yeah ……… so what's your point?'
Wm
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Nostalgia is a wistful longing or fond memory of the way things used to be done.
My lever guns are ready to go into the field with me and take game. Today.
Newer guns are interesting, but largely irrelevant to my hunting.
Calling a lever gun nostalgic, i.e, obsolete, is like calling an AR-15 a passing fad or a novelty item.
My lever guns are ready to go into the field with me and take game. Today.
Newer guns are interesting, but largely irrelevant to my hunting.
Calling a lever gun nostalgic, i.e, obsolete, is like calling an AR-15 a passing fad or a novelty item.
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
They do the numerous jobs they were designed for (all-around 'ranch rifle', hunting rifle, home-protection rifle, pistol-companion rifle, 'truck' rifle, and 'hard-times' rifle) better than any other rifle.
However.....
They do NOT beat bolt actions for pinpoint accuracy
They do NOT beat semiautos for volume firepower
They do NOT beat breakopens for simple durability
.....but......SO WHAT....???
If you want a long range varmint rifle or sniper rifle, get a bolt action, if you want to defend against an MS-13 gang attack, or reenact a Cambodian firefight, get a semiauto, and if you want a gun that you can make parts for and keep running for 100 years after an EMP, get a breakopen. But when you want one gun that can do pretty well in all but the most extreme scenarios, and serve extremely well in the more commonplace practical roles, a leveraction will likely serve you well.
I didn't put 'power' as a factor, because between the modern reproduction 1886, 1895, and modern 89s, you can generate the same TKO as any normal (belted magnum cartridge) bolt-action rifle. (50 BMG and its derivatives are in a different class than regular rifles, exceeding their weight by more than regular rifles exceed handguns weight.) Plus the Browning BLR's in 7mm Rem Mag are hardly overshadowed by bolt actions in terms of foot-pounds of energy.
However.....
They do NOT beat bolt actions for pinpoint accuracy
They do NOT beat semiautos for volume firepower
They do NOT beat breakopens for simple durability
.....but......SO WHAT....???
If you want a long range varmint rifle or sniper rifle, get a bolt action, if you want to defend against an MS-13 gang attack, or reenact a Cambodian firefight, get a semiauto, and if you want a gun that you can make parts for and keep running for 100 years after an EMP, get a breakopen. But when you want one gun that can do pretty well in all but the most extreme scenarios, and serve extremely well in the more commonplace practical roles, a leveraction will likely serve you well.
I didn't put 'power' as a factor, because between the modern reproduction 1886, 1895, and modern 89s, you can generate the same TKO as any normal (belted magnum cartridge) bolt-action rifle. (50 BMG and its derivatives are in a different class than regular rifles, exceeding their weight by more than regular rifles exceed handguns weight.) Plus the Browning BLR's in 7mm Rem Mag are hardly overshadowed by bolt actions in terms of foot-pounds of energy.
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Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Doc had a good post above.
Much of the appeal may be nostalgia for many people, but levers are also practical working tools. Nothing else is as easy to carry in hand, simple to operate, and they are very functionally reliable with a variety of loads. They are enough for most uses, one doesnt always require 500 yard match accuracy, or some other things other types offer. Ive carried ARs around in the field, and find them pretty awkward and clunky to carry compared to a Winchester 94 or 1886. I put Ars in the "interesting, but not important" category for my day to day use. I virtually always have a Winchester 94 or similar in my truck and carry them regularly walking. Scoped bolt rifles are next up in usefulness to me, take that for whatever its worth. I could do without any self loaders and not feel at all deprived for what I do in real life. They are fine, just not really relevant in my area of interest or use.
Revolvers also have a very useful place, they have been much easier for me to shoot at higher accuracy levels and consistently so than any centerfire auto, and they also use a variety of loads with reliability. I dont believe some of the old arguments about reliability between autos and revolvers is as valid as in the past, modern self loader pistols can be extremely reliable, but they fill a slightly differently niche. For most of my use, including defensive, I could use only revolvers the rest of my days with no regrets and i dont truly think any real loss of practical effectiveness. I have a g-19 I like OK, but I would be fine with a Smith 19 and Colt D frame 38 for the bases the g-19 covers, and the Smith 19 is much more accurate than the g-19 in mechanical accuracy and in my ability to shoot them well. Moving up in power, there isnt much in practical autos that truly compared to larger caliber revolvers like 44 mag and 45 Colt with heavy loads. Yes, theres some specialty stuff, 45 Super etc, but they arent common or mainstream as far as ammo availability and such, they also still dont come up to the heavier revolver loads. 10mm is more in the heavy 357 to low 41 mag power range. Not really in the heavy category. It compares nicely to 44-40 black powder carbine loads in the data ive seen. YMMV, thats my perspective.
Much of the appeal may be nostalgia for many people, but levers are also practical working tools. Nothing else is as easy to carry in hand, simple to operate, and they are very functionally reliable with a variety of loads. They are enough for most uses, one doesnt always require 500 yard match accuracy, or some other things other types offer. Ive carried ARs around in the field, and find them pretty awkward and clunky to carry compared to a Winchester 94 or 1886. I put Ars in the "interesting, but not important" category for my day to day use. I virtually always have a Winchester 94 or similar in my truck and carry them regularly walking. Scoped bolt rifles are next up in usefulness to me, take that for whatever its worth. I could do without any self loaders and not feel at all deprived for what I do in real life. They are fine, just not really relevant in my area of interest or use.
Revolvers also have a very useful place, they have been much easier for me to shoot at higher accuracy levels and consistently so than any centerfire auto, and they also use a variety of loads with reliability. I dont believe some of the old arguments about reliability between autos and revolvers is as valid as in the past, modern self loader pistols can be extremely reliable, but they fill a slightly differently niche. For most of my use, including defensive, I could use only revolvers the rest of my days with no regrets and i dont truly think any real loss of practical effectiveness. I have a g-19 I like OK, but I would be fine with a Smith 19 and Colt D frame 38 for the bases the g-19 covers, and the Smith 19 is much more accurate than the g-19 in mechanical accuracy and in my ability to shoot them well. Moving up in power, there isnt much in practical autos that truly compared to larger caliber revolvers like 44 mag and 45 Colt with heavy loads. Yes, theres some specialty stuff, 45 Super etc, but they arent common or mainstream as far as ammo availability and such, they also still dont come up to the heavier revolver loads. 10mm is more in the heavy 357 to low 41 mag power range. Not really in the heavy category. It compares nicely to 44-40 black powder carbine loads in the data ive seen. YMMV, thats my perspective.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Not much to add beyond what has already been said. However, most leveraction firearms are quick to get on target and come in calibers which work well in close quarters such as scrub brush and tight timber. Most modern semi-autos are slightly unwieldy in close quarters, hence the short barrel M4, and are most typically found in 5.56 NATO. 5.56 is a poor choice for most hunting. If the hunter is as accurate as CRS son Colin, then it is different. Few who carry ar AR 15 are as accurate. Even with a 30-30 levergun not always being a tack driver, it is close enough to it, and the 150 or 170 grain bullets vs a 68 grain bullet show quite a large difference in power delivered on target.
D. Brian Casady
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Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
Well, there's been a whole lotta people and critters laid down by those nostalgic levers over the years. The biggest reason is cause someone had it with them.
Nothing is easier to take along than a lever action carbine. It is an excellent balance of what an all around effective rifle needs to be.
Nothing is easier to take along than a lever action carbine. It is an excellent balance of what an all around effective rifle needs to be.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
- marlinman93
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
I actually agree with the guy who said lever guns aren't as good as most modern designs! There's no doubt at all that a bolt action rifle design can handle much higher pressures, and that it can make life simpler for the shooter or hunter who isn't as experienced, and doesn't want to shoot often or learn his gun/cartridge. Same for the autoloader. If the guy behind the trigger has trouble hitting what he aims at, an autoloader will allow him to blast away until he possibly hits what he's trying to bring down.
Lever guns are more for those who enjoy shooting, and hunting with them. They require the shooter to know his gun and cartridge well enough to know bullet drop, and the capabilities of the gun and himself. But for those who do so it's a superb gun, and gives the shooter or hunter a lot of satisfaction in using it successfully.
Lever guns are more for those who enjoy shooting, and hunting with them. They require the shooter to know his gun and cartridge well enough to know bullet drop, and the capabilities of the gun and himself. But for those who do so it's a superb gun, and gives the shooter or hunter a lot of satisfaction in using it successfully.
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Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
I initially got my first lever gun as a "partner" to my 44 Magnum revolvers. I don't hunt anymore, but all the game I was interested in or may come across would be "fair game" for my lever 44 (pigs, deer, bear). In a bad times, riot, society failure, or home protection situation, the only drawback to my 44 Mag. lever gun would be slower to reload than my Garand or AKs, but I certainly would not feel under-gunned, unless I had a Ma Deuce handy...
The "nostalgia" statement was just plain silly. Perhaps made by one who needs to show his "technical knowledge", or some other "ego satisfying" reason. Yes, firearms technology had advanced beyond the lever gun designs, but to down grade a proven gun design (I wouldn't even hazard to guess how many millions of lever guns have been manufactured, or how many are in use) and drop it into a "nostalgia only" category is totally ignorant and just plain silly...
The "nostalgia" statement was just plain silly. Perhaps made by one who needs to show his "technical knowledge", or some other "ego satisfying" reason. Yes, firearms technology had advanced beyond the lever gun designs, but to down grade a proven gun design (I wouldn't even hazard to guess how many millions of lever guns have been manufactured, or how many are in use) and drop it into a "nostalgia only" category is totally ignorant and just plain silly...
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?
You won’t beat a manually operated action for load versatility. Shooting squib loads to full power, cast to full metal patch the lever gun, revolver, single shot and the like will do it.