Best Gun Safe for the Money?

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:08 pm

Or maybe just the best period? I have decided to upgrade my gun protection. My current safe is not fire rated, and it's not big enough, anymore. So, I have been shopping around.

I live in a rural area, where if my house caught on fire and I wasn't there, chances are it's going to be totally burnt down before anyone even notices. Same for a break in, I need the best protection from both, within reason.

Has anyone here had a fire, and experienced a safe's preformance first hand? Most are rated for only 30 minutes to 60 minutes at around 1200 degrees. I just wonder what the chances are keeping my guns from getting burnt up or damaged in this siduation, unlike in town where a fire truck would be there pronto.

Plus I have been looking at safes and frankly, being a construction worker, I am pretty sure I could break into most of them in less then 20 minutes with nothing more then a 4 inch grinder and a zip-cut wheel or two, maybe even in half of that time. However, I am sure a good safe will keep the average punk out, but someone who knows what most any construction worker knows would not be stopped for long.

Anyway, name some brands you like or have had good or bad luck with. Electronic locks, vs. mechancical ? I think I am going electroinc, for speed and the fact that I need my glasses and more time to open a dial safe.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:59 pm

I'd get a good fire-rated safe (My Liberty one says it's really better than the competition, but of course they probably all do). I'd then build an external 'fire safe' around it with several inches of back to back drywall or cinder block or some such, because the heat from a fire would be worst where some timber was up against the safe directly - if you can keep any burning timber a few inches away, that would help considerably.

If I had the time/money, I'd get TWO safes, and the more visible one would have no guns, but I'd hang about 50 bee-hive frames in it and run a tube outside so the bees could go in and out. It would be fun to see what happened when some thief opened THAT one!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Fri May 09, 2008 11:09 pm

AJMD429 - I love the way you think!

For the money, I am really impressed with the Champion safe I got a couple years ago. I had an old Browning Silver Series (now my son's), but it was small and lacked any fire protection. I research safes for several years, and the Champion seemed to be the best value - being large, solid fire protection, and reasonably affordable. Wasn't cheap, but the same size and fire protection in every other brand was more expensive - some 2-3X more!

If I could do what I would want, I'd build a safe room. Wasn't feasible in the house we're in now, so this was my second option. The safe is bolted down to a concrete slab, and much too heavy for anyone to carry away in any case. I'm sure a pro could get into it - but pros don't bother burglarizing homes in my price range. It will keep the flunkies out of it.

Even the best fire protection is only going to delay the inevitable. The hope is that it holds out until the fire department can arrive.

Good luck - let us know what you get!

Joe Reilly · Post by **Joe Reilly** » Fri May 09, 2008 11:58 pm

The June issue of "Shooting Illustrated" arrived today and has an article about safes. Haven't read it yet, but seems to cover all the bases.

kirkwood · Post by **kirkwood** » Sat May 10, 2008 1:16 am

I heard Ft. Knox safes were very good.
Anyway, I wound up getting a Sentry Pro-Staff safe with floodguard protection that is supposed to protect for up to 2 days in 2 ft of water. I live near water and have been flooded in the past, so thought it was a prudent thing to have in case I'm away on business when the river rises. Plus the floodguard gaskets give some protection when the fire department sprays water on a house fire. I also raised the safe an extra 6 inches and placed it in the part of the house that will have the least fire damage if a fire should start. I would also recommend that if you live in a humid area (many places are in the summer) that you get a dehumidifier for your safe. Take out all the guns every few weeks and re-oil them and inspect for corrosion.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:22 am

I have Summit Safe Co.'s Teton Edition. I think it was around
$1300 delivered. I bought it in January, and they delivered it
down the side of a hill and installed it in my basement.
I got it from Eastern Security Safe out Mendon, Massachusetts.
Their service is absolutely, positively, first rate. No complaints.
Fire-rated, Sargent & Greenleaf UL-rated mechanical
lock, (residential burglary), hardened plate, relocker, and fire-
rated. I would have preferred a heavier gauge for the body, but
I installed it in a closet in the basement and bolted it to the
concrete floor. It's possible somebody could get in it, but they'd
have to REALLY work at it and the only access points are either
through the door or the ceiling of the safe. The door is, of course
the strongest part, and access to the ceiling is awkward. It
won't stop a pro, but it will stop the average hop-head, and
that's who does 99.9% of the burglaries around here. If I was
putting it upstairs, I would have gone with a heavier safe and
better fire-rating, but I don't need either in the basement.

I looked at the safes at Dick's Sporting Goods, but none of them
have UL-rated locks or relockers, and only some had the hardened
plates in front of the lock mechanism. It would be a drag to
spend all of that time and money to get a safe in only to find out
that somebody could knock the lock off with a hammer and get
into the box! Plus, mine's made in this country - not China.
Sam's Club had a good one on offer, bu this one was less hassle
to get delivered.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:28 am

I am going to go with a Liberty to replace my Stack-ons.

Local dealers. Mine is in a town just North of me, delivery is cheap, he has examples in stock and can get any safe quickly and Liberty will make a custom size for just a little extra. It would take a real professional with Liberty specific tools to break in.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat May 10, 2008 8:03 am

Look very carefully at the tags, warranty information and all documentation you can get your hands on BEFORE you buy the safe you THINK you want. Many of the "STORE BRANDS" are made by the same folks that build a less expensive line under their own label. Some are sold right alongside the big name "Store Brand". I've seen a Cabela's safe, made by Liberty (IIRC) that was on sale for 2/3 the price of the same safe under it's manufacturer's name with a better warranty. So shop around... alot, and ask questions, study their websites and buy bigger than you think you need! Just like a freeway, think ten... twenty years in the future, not how many guns you have now!

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Sat May 10, 2008 8:03 am

I would stay away from the Ft. Knox. Bought two of them and the upper pieces that seperate the gun barrels are made of particle board and if you put your gun in and put any pressure on them, they will break. Didn't even get all my guns in the save before each one broke.
You would think on a safe that cost's that much, the extra $5 it would have cost to use plywood would have been well worth it. Makes we wonder where other cheap materials are use.
I have electronic locks on one and dial on the other. Prefer the electronic for speed, but the dial one has advantages also, as I can close the door and lock it, but until I spin the dial, I can re-open it. Helps getting the door out of the way.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat May 10, 2008 9:31 am

Griff wrote:Look very carefully at the tags, warranty information and all documentation you can get your hands on BEFORE you buy the safe you THINK you want. Many of the "STORE BRANDS" are made by the same folks that build a less expensive line under their own label. Some are sold right alongside the big name "Store Brand". I've seen a Cabela's safe, made by Liberty (IIRC) that was on sale for 2/3 the price of the same safe under it's manufacturer's name with a better warranty. So shop around... alot, and ask questions, study their websites and buy bigger than you think you need! Just like a freeway, think ten... twenty years in the future, not how many guns you have now!

Griff - excellent points. Always buy the largest size you can afford and fit into your home. You will find things to put in it - trust me! Larger is also heavier, making it less likely a thief is going to simply cart if off and open it at their leisure. I picked the Champion because I was looking for a "plain jane" exterior - I'm not displaying it, so I don't need a fancy/shiny finish or any decorations (pictures, motiffs, logos, etc.). Going with a flat gray or black exterior will save a lot of money.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat May 10, 2008 9:46 am

Lastmohecken

good questions. no one addressed your main concern, a guy with a grinder can create a door in the side, won't matter how many locking lugs there are.

even a portable cutting torch, which doesn't make any noise and doesn't require electricity and is faster than a grinder will open most safes in minutes, regardless of how strong the door lock is.

the only defense I can see against that is an external security system that fills the safe room with pepper spray and tear gas. it would look like a fire sprinkler with a different concoction, and have a big red light in the room to tell you it's armed so you don't gas yourself.

you could have a warning notice right on the safe door with a disclaimer that the perp agrees that touching the safe is at his own risk and that you are in no way responsible for the consequences. " Waver of liability: touching this safe signifies that you agree with this statement and aquit the owner of all liability and subsuquent damages that you incur". I would etch it in stone, shape it like a tombstone, and attach it to the door.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat May 10, 2008 11:33 am

Disclaimers being somewhat worthless, you could post the sign, "Gunpowder Stored Inside". Makes 'em think before appling that cutting torch!

jengel · Post by **jengel** » Sat May 10, 2008 11:45 am

LIBERTY SAFES!!! I am a dealer in them and for the money, they are in my opinion, the best. When we were at the SHOT show, we looked at carrying Liberty and Browning. Browning was much more expensive and you didn't get much more in features other than a 180 degree door swing.

GunBuff · Post by **GunBuff** » Sat May 10, 2008 2:12 pm

I have a stack-on fire safe, is there something inferior about stack-on?

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sat May 10, 2008 3:53 pm

Don't know, GunBuff. Look up the specs on the Stack-On safe, look
up some specs on other safes, decide what you needs are and
your comfort level is, and go from there.

A friend of mine has what I would consider a glorified sheet-metal
cabinet - but it stopped a punk trying to get at his guns, so I
guess it met his needs and comfort level.

I opted to buy a heavier and more expensive safe. It doesn't mean
there's anything wrong with his choice - my choice was just different
based on my perceived needs and comfort level.

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:52 pm

I have a Ft Knox, been happy for 16 years and broke nothing in it yet. But I know pro thieves can come in and haul safe and all away if it can be done. 3 big thuigs with muscles in their teeth can cart a safe off, guns and all. Hope it never happens here.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat May 10, 2008 8:12 pm

I have a pretty good "safe". Cost me ZERO dollars, so I guess on an ROI it's pretty good.

Admittedly, the lock is not as "secure" as a Vault type safe, but someone has to be interested in opening it first...

What crook really wants popsicles & frozen pizza?

A Freezer is essentially water tight and fire proof... you can often recover edible food from one after a fire.

Security through Obscurity...

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat May 10, 2008 8:19 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:

That's cool.

ohwin94_61 · Post by **ohwin94_61** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:12 am

Tycer wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:
That's cool.

I thought about that before great minds think alike

RICHP · Post by **RICHP** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:29 am

I bought a Canon a couple years ago from Tractor Supply it has a dial lock, which has already screwed up. Most times it takes a dozen trys to get open, by then the varmint is gone. Richard

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun May 11, 2008 1:01 pm

Thanks, for all of the posts and information, fellows.

I ended up getting a Champion safe, yesterday. I bought a middle sized one, with a fire rating of 60 minutes, and I liked the interior pretty good.

Champion safes are a spin off from Liberty, and after looking at both brands, and stackon, I chose the Cannon with a dial lock, even though I liked the electronic pushpad type for speed, I was worried about long term service. I have opened it several times now, and I am getting faster with the dial, but probably will never be as fast as electronic pushpad would be.

I think I have found a spot in the house for my old safe, and I believe I will just keep it, and make new steel shelves for it, and use it for ammo storage.

Another reason I went with the Cannon, was that the dealer offered delivery at no charge, and the other dealers in my area, didnot even offer delivery at all. They were at the house with it, in less then 2 hours after purchase, which just barley gave me enough time to get my old safe cleaned out. They also helped me move my old safe. That was worth something just to get it delivered and installed. Those things are kind hard to handle, and I was dreading the move.

Naphtali · Post by **Naphtali** » Sun May 11, 2008 1:46 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:I have a pretty good "safe". Cost me ZERO dollars, so I guess on an ROI it's pretty good.

Admittedly, the lock is not as "secure" as a Vault type safe, but someone has to be interested in opening it first...

What crook really wants popsicles & frozen pizza?

A Freezer is essentially water tight and fire proof... you can often recover edible food from one after a fire.

Security through Obscurity...

I agree that a refrigerator is acceptable storage. B U T . . . professional thieves will look in refrigerators, especially freezers, for small valuables such as jewelry, cash, etc.

Putting a holding device behind the refrigerator, replacing the coils, that might be a place of good concealment. Speaking of which, unless unlimited funds are available, it appears people must decide which is more important -- safety from theft, or safety from natural disaster. When my brother built his home, he had a false wall created in an unfinished non-bearing wall in the basement. Within the compartment created was a fireproof only storage container (intended for computer media). This was probably the best solution at reasonable cost because:
1. Finding the false wall is nearly impossible.

2. His storage device is much better than that available from UL listed gun safes although not secure from break in.

Just some thoughts.

Savage99 · Post by **Savage99** » Sun May 11, 2008 2:24 pm

I have a stack-on in my house and a browning in my gargae..i'm not worried about fires cause we have fire sprinklers..I also have a automatic fire suppressor over my kitchen stove...

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun May 11, 2008 8:01 pm

I made a mistake, in my last post and stated that I purchased a Cannon safe, but that is incorrect, I purchased a Champion safe. I have now edited my eairler post to read "Champion" I don't know how I got it in my head that I had bought a Cannon instead if a Champion.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:26 pm

Good for you! I went with the dial lock on the Champion I got as well - and for the same reason. I figured that it was just one less thing to go wrong.

Getting free delivery was a bonus and then some. I paid $250 to have the safe delivered a couple years ago, and it was worth every penny. Difficult terrain around my house, so they pulled up to within about 75 feet of the door, and then it took six guys - and me - and a handfork about an hour to get it from the truck to it's final spot. Like I said, I'm not worried about someone carting it off!!!

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:44 pm

Tycer wrote: [Under image of guns in a refrigerator]
That's cool.

HAHAHAHA! Brevity is the soul of wit. Good one, Tycer!

Mutt · Post by **Mutt** » Mon May 12, 2008 9:43 pm

I have the Liberty safe now. After searching for the right one and having some " Outlaw " breakin' my home and stealing all of the guns I use to own.
So my suggestion is any safe is better than none , and the " sooner the better"
adage would have been good for me. Like buying another milk cow after leaving the gate open for some to steal the one I had .
And Yes I have a Liberty And love it so far. Has some openings to bolt it to the floor, as well as a small hole in back for a Golden Rod electric cord to keep the dampness....
out and dry. P;us it is the dial type .
I got a very large one, but already need more space .
They have a great web site. ..............MUTT

scr83jp · Post by **scr83jp** » Mon May 12, 2008 11:12 pm

Lastmohecken wrote:Or maybe just the best period? I have decided to upgrade my gun protection. My current safe is not fire rated, and it's not big enough, anymore. So, I have been shopping around.

I live in a rural area, where if my house caught on fire and I wasn't there, chances are it's going to be totally burnt down before anyone even notices. Same for a break in, I need the best protection from both, within reason.

Has anyone here had a fire, and experienced a safe's preformance first hand? Most are rated for only 30 minutes to 60 minutes at around 1200 degrees. I just wonder what the chances are keeping my guns from getting burnt up or damaged in this siduation, unlike in town where a fire truck would be there pronto.

Plus I have been looking at safes and frankly, being a construction worker, I am pretty sure I could break into most of them in less then 20 minutes with nothing more then a 4 inch grinder and a zip-cut wheel or two, maybe even in half of that time. However, I am sure a good safe will keep the average punk out, but someone who knows what most any construction worker knows would not be stopped for long.

Anyway, name some brands you like or have had good or bad luck with. Electronic locks, vs. mechancical ? I think I am going electroinc, for speed and the fact that I need my glasses and more time to open a dial safe.

Line it with sheetrock that's what most safe companies use.A company I bought a safe from in Visalia CA uses blast furnace spun glass insulation in an interior steel jacket that's rated for 3500 degrees for 3+ hours but the prices are higher for this feature.My safe is 72" by 30" by 24"

scr83jp · Post by **scr83jp** » Mon May 12, 2008 11:16 pm

Naphtali wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:I have a pretty good "safe". Cost me ZERO dollars, so I guess on an ROI it's pretty good.

Admittedly, the lock is not as "secure" as a Vault type safe, but someone has to be interested in opening it first...

What crook really wants popsicles & frozen pizza?

A Freezer is essentially water tight and fire proof... you can often recover edible food from one after a fire.

Security through Obscurity...
I agree that a refrigerator is acceptable storage. B U T . . . professional thieves will look in refrigerators, especially freezers, for small valuables such as jewelry, cash, etc.

Putting a holding device behind the refrigerator, replacing the coils, that might be a place of good concealment. Speaking of which, unless unlimited funds are available, it appears people must decide which is more important -- safety from theft, or safety from natural disaster. When my brother built his home, he had a false wall created in an unfinished non-bearing wall in the basement. Within the compartment created was a fireproof only storage container (intended for computer media). This was probably the best solution at reasonable cost because:
1. Finding the false wall is nearly impossible.

2. His storage device is much better than that available from UL listed gun safes although not secure from break in.

Just some thoughts.

A refer isn't a good place to store firearms because the drug users hide their drugs in refers and all know that gambit. Cannon Safes are made at the old Norton AB in San Bernardino,CA

Texican · Post by **Texican** » Tue May 20, 2008 9:43 am

scr83jp wrote:Line it with sheetrock that's what most safe companies use.A company I bought a safe from in Visalia CA uses blast furnace spun glass insulation in an interior steel jacket that's rated for 3500 degrees for 3+ hours but the prices are higher for this feature.My safe is 72" by 30" by 24"

As I understand it the sheetrock isn't in itself a fire retardant, but the gypsum retains moisture which is expelled when heated keeping the interior of the safe cooler until it runs out of water vapor. That's how the time rating for protection was devised for many safes. IIRC, one company has pioneered the use of aerated concrete (poor mans space shuttle tile) for fire protection.

scr83jp · Post by **scr83jp** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:16 am

I attended the Crossroads of the West Gun Show in Costa Mesa,CA several years ago and after checking out several safes I bought a Visalia Safe made in Visalia,Ca www.visaliasafes.com they have a model with a steel inner liner filled with ceramic boiler insulation it will withstand 3260 degrees for 3 hours.The model I bought is 72"x30x24 model 2430T has 5/8" gypsum fireliner weighs 805 lbs empty.

Best Gun Safe for the Money?

Best Gun Safe for the Money?

Whats wrong with stack-ons

Re: Best Gun Safe for the Money?

Re: Best Gun Safe for the Money?