OT, but related-Is there a machinist in the house ... long

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:11 pm

... or someone with a metal lathe that could help me with a small project?

Here's the story ... Go get a cup a coffee and put on some music this is kind long.

A couple years ago I found two older Bonanza Co-Ax presses at a gun store. Paid less for both of them than one new one would cost.
To say I'm thrilled with these presses would be a major understatement.

However Forster, the new owner of Bonanza has made a change in the priming set up. Originally they had a clamp like affair that took a standard shell holder for the priming tool.

Then they changed the priming press to a three jawed universal affair and discontinued the shell holders.
I purchased one of these universal shell holders and have found it just will not work for the .45 Colt cartridge.

Here's why:
There is so much variation in the case dimensions that the jaws just cannot be adjusted for reasonable use with all the cases.
This variation is not only between different brands, but between cases of the same lot.
The problem is exacerbated by the small rim on the .45 Colt.

Here is an example of the problem; I had a couple hundred once fired Starline cases. I grabbed one and using the instructions I adjusted the three jaws so the case would be a good fit. Then started priming cases. Not many cases into the batch I found numerous cases that will not fit under the jaws.
I read and reread the instructions and finally last night the obvious clues became visable.
The universal jaws has two sides. One side with a .050" opening, and the other side with a .070" opening.
OK, I had the jaws turned wrong. So I reversed them only to find that the cases were now mostly WAY too loose. Some of them would even pop out of the jaws when priming them.
So I measured my .45 Colt case rims. What a joke! A BAD ONE!!!
According to all the specks I could find, the rim of the .45 Colt cartridge should be .060". MOST of mine were around .048" to .052".
These cases will fit under the .050" side of the jaws. But the others well, they will not, and to add insult to injury, only one brand of case that I have even remotely comes to the .060" spec and that's the IMPACT 3-D cases.
So I worked last night to set the priming tool up to use the .070" side of the jaws only to find that it was useless.
When I got one brand set up they would work, maybe. Another brand would flip out of the jaws, and some brands with different depths of extractor groves would not go into the jaws at all.
You see the jaws have a flat bottom edge that fits over the rim, but the upper edge is angled and fits into the extractor grove.
I have two old solid head cases that do not have an extractor grove, so I adjusted the jaws on them. That way the jaws only worked on the rim.
90% of the cases were enough smaller they would flip out of the jaws.

I gave up.

I need someone with a lathe, to bore 5/16" holes in some standard shell holders so I can return these presses to their original priming set up.
I have one original Bonanza shell holder, and a chart that Forster sent me, so I know what I'm looking for. But the original shell holders are extinct.
That's why I want to modify some current standard shell holders. It would be much more time expedient.

I think using a lathe would be much more accurate than a drill press and a vise. And considering how this thing is set up, accuracy is a must.

Is there anybody here that has a lathe that would be willing to do this for me? I'm serious about this. I have extra shell holders for most of the calibers I load and will pay for your work and the postage.

Joe

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:24 pm

Joe, if you have a good drill press and a good vise for it, you should be able to drill those your self. Just make sure things are square. Since bits are tapered, you should be able to use the bit itself (with press off

) to center the shell holder in the vise before drilling. Just use a high quality bit and make sure you have the shell holder chucked in tight. Personally I would use a couple small v-blocks.

Otherwise if someone can do it on a lathe for you I think your right.

Mike Hunter · Post by **Mike Hunter** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:37 pm

I think I know what youâ€™re talking about, but wont know for sure until I have objects in hand or some good pics. Are these shell holders hardened, if I remember correctly most are (do a file test on them). But if itâ€™s a simple drilling / reaming / boring job, should be easy, what kind of tolerance are you needing, +/- .0005 or +/- .010

Mike Hunter

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Thu May 15, 2008 3:15 pm

Joe.. I've done sort of the same thing but in reverse..I've used a standard shell holder to make shell holders for my Lee priming tool that Lee did not offer at the time.. Here's what I did..Heat the shell holder up to Red for a min or so.. then let it cool off slowly..That softens it up good..In my case I wacked off the part that snaps into the press..But all you need to do is drill out the center to a larger size..Clamp it in your drill vise so the shoulders rest on the top of the jaws and the neck part is clamped between the jaws..Dont clamp the vise to the table..With the bit in the chuck and the drill motor off..bring the bit down onto the hole..then with a little pressure applied on the bit..rotate the chuck backwards..that will center the bit in the hole..keep the pressure on & clamp the vise down..Back the bit off..Put a little oil in the hole and drill it out.. The 45 Colt rim is so thin that there will be plenty of meat left in the shell holder so you wont really need to reharden it.. But if you do want to reharden it..Run it up to red again & quench in oil or water..It will blue colored..Clean the blue off with whatever you have..wire wheel.. wet or dry sand paper.. Main thing is you want the metal bright..Then slowly reheat the shell holder and bring it up to a tan or straw color..Then quench immediately.. Never had a problem with ones I've done & I haven't bothered to reharden them either.. good luck..

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu May 15, 2008 4:30 pm

sore shoulder,
No drill press, no vise, other wise I would have done 'em all ready.

Mike,
I believe they are, but the hardening seems to vary. The original Bonanza shell holder I have will smoothly accept a 5/16 drill bit. There is some play but not much. I just want to make sure these things are drilled straight with no boo boo's.

Ben,
Sounds doable, except I have no equipment to do it with.

Joe

Comal Forge · Post by **Comal Forge** » Thu May 15, 2008 5:15 pm

I measured some Remingtons I had here and they are .049-.051.

I can likely do what you want - PM me and we can discuss offline.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Thu May 15, 2008 8:09 pm

Joe, if you are not in a rush I would be glad to help you out. Have lathe, can do. It`s just that my little shop is about 6 weeks behind on promised things to do now.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu May 15, 2008 8:16 pm

Chuck 100 yd wrote:Joe, if you are not in a rush I would be glad to help you out. Have lathe, can do. It`s just that my little shop is about 6 weeks behind on promised things to do now.

Chuck,

I just PM'd Comal Forge. If he and I don't something arranged I'll consider your offer.

Joe

bsaride · Post by **bsaride** » Thu May 15, 2008 9:48 pm

I am a CAD designer so if I can get a sketch I can make up a set of drawings for you.

Jay

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Thu May 15, 2008 9:52 pm

If they can't, I might be able to also. Might have a carbide endmill that would work on those suckers.

ole pizen slinger · Post by **ole pizen slinger** » Thu May 15, 2008 9:53 pm

Mr. Miller,
I would be happy to help you out. I have a lathe and if you supply the shell holders I'll supply the labor.
ole pizen slinger

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri May 16, 2008 12:12 am

For everyone who has offered to help, I thank you kindly.
However Comal Forge and I are working on the project and I'm pretty sure we got it under control.

I'll post a pic or three when I get this done.

Thanks again,

Joe

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Fri May 16, 2008 12:55 am

Joe,
If you get hung up , give a yell.
Have a lathe and a mill, what you wnt is not a big deal

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Fri May 16, 2008 3:46 am

Just 'cause I like to post solutions to already solved problems, I have the drill press & vise. I also turned my lathe on for the first time last night (don't that make me a "pro" now?)

Oh, yeah! I also have just finished my gas forge and am sure I'm now an expert heat treater, because I got one bolt REALLY hot!

There's a long road ahead.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:53 am

Well, Joe - It's a good thing you saved all that money on those reloading machine's.

Now - How much is your new angina medication gonna cost ?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri May 16, 2008 10:16 am

Pete44ru wrote:Well, Joe - It's a good thing you saved all that money on those reloading machine's.

Now - How much is your new angina medication gonna cost ?

WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This
angina

noun
1. any disease of the throat or fauces marked by spasmodic attacks of intense suffocative pain
2. a heart condition marked by paroxysms of chest pain due to reduced oxygen to the heart [syn: angina pectoris]

WordNetÂ® 3.0, Â© 2006 by Princeton University.

Well Pete, thankfully I don't suffer from that condition. But my blood pressure meds are a bit expensive.

Joe

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri May 16, 2008 10:59 am

[thankfully I don't suffer from that condition.]

Yet.

Joe - At our age, life's too short, to do things the hard way. Repent.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri May 16, 2008 2:39 pm

OK Pete, what are you getting at?

Joe - At our age, life's too short, to do things the hard way. Repent. Wink

I feel like I'm sitting on the floor, you meaning is going right over my head.

Joe

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:31 pm

Joe, I was getting at, that (in the long run) going through all that aggrivation and maneuvering to save a few bucks, just isn't worth it to me - nor (I would think) most others my age.

I arrived at that point of view a few years ago, when I had no choice but to see the light.

If I was still younger, I mighta fooled with them, but now (my $0.02) - I woulda sold the Co-Ax's, and bought a turn-key setup.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:11 pm

Well, OK then. But I've saved a lot more than a "few bucks" and I'm quite happy with these presses. Once the shell holders are modified I'll just sit down and grin like a chessie cat while I load 'em all up. Wait, that's what I already been doing.

Oh, and I ain't going to repent neither.

Joe

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:44 pm

Joe, reading all this mess with the 45's, it brought me back to your bad sights on the marlin Bolt gun. You ever get that boo-boo straightened out? Just curious. Bruce

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:31 pm

brucew44guns wrote:Joe, reading all this mess with the 45's, it brought me back to your bad sights on the marlin Bolt gun. You ever get that boo-boo straightened out? Just curious. Bruce

Bruce,
Called the gun shop today. It's apart and on the milling machine. Don't know the whyfors of that, but I'm confident it will be fixed right ... eventually.

Joe

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat May 17, 2008 12:14 am

Off subject, 20 cows, did that Linsay books website help?
That place has to be a blast to work at!

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Sat May 17, 2008 6:23 am

Off subject, 20 cows, did that Linsay books website help?

Yes, that site looks to be wonderful resource, but so far I haven't purchased any reference material. There is quite a bit of info to plow through of the web, first.

I did my first turning on it last night, making wheels to go under one end of the 300 lb + lathe and stand. I started with a couple of pieces of scrap 3/8 plate cut with torch.

(Sorry for the drift, Joe)