Second battle of Adobe Walls
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- Scott Tschirhart
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Second battle of Adobe Walls
On our way home from the Holiday I’m planning on visiting the Turkey Track Ranch and the grave of Billy Dixon at Adobe Walls.
It’s been too long.
It’s been too long.
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
For sure, if I was traveling through that area, I'd stop too!
Would be a hoot to stand near where he did and take a gander way out yonder at where his "targets" were! (Not sure just WHAT is the correct noun to use anymore -- so I will just call them that!)
Old No7
Would be a hoot to stand near where he did and take a gander way out yonder at where his "targets" were! (Not sure just WHAT is the correct noun to use anymore -- so I will just call them that!)
Old No7
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Cool I would go out of my way to see that, love history.
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
You actually have to go out of your way to see it. I’ll post some photos.gamekeeper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:41 am Cool I would go out of my way to see that, love history.
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Took my daughter there when she was about 12 or so, more than 20 years ago. I'd done a lot of reading about the buffalo hunters -- including "The Life of Billy Dixon." I was also interested because my grandmother, who was born near here in Fisher County, grew up on her Daddy's ranch on the Canadian just upstream from the Turkey Track where the village of Plemons once stood. It is an inspiring place to visit. I hope to see it once more some day.
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Other'n being in the midst of the 19th century buffalo grounds, there ain't anything around. I've always thought that curious... most other trading posts developed into towns... and ended up being "between & there". Adobe Walls, just ain't!Scott Tschirhart wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:56 amYou actually have to go out of your way to see it. I’ll post some photos.
Griff,
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- Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
First onto the Turkey Track Ranch
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- Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
The site
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- Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Billy Dixon’s grave was terribly overgrown
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
There is some big medicine at that place. Thanks for the visit, Scott.
- Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
The bluff where the shot was made is over my right shoulder
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Nice, thanks for sharing.
Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Very interesting post, thanks for taking the time to share the photos! I always wondered what that long shot would look like in person.
Running the ridges and rivers of Virginia's southern Appalachians
- Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
It’s a long shot, but the Buffalo hunters had been shooting at rocks on that bluff so probably helped Dixon to range that shot. Not taking anything away from him. He did it.
Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
He certainly did, although I read somewhere he said it was a "lucky shot". But a man good with a gun, especially one that is familiar to him, can have a lot of "luck" with it. Sort of like some of the Elmer Keith stories folks refuse to believe. I've never approached his level, of course, but once spent enough time shooting handguns to get good enough that I believed his stories about shooting at distance were certainly possible.
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Luck seems to favor those who practice and prepare. I am reasonably certain that he had practiced shooting at a distance. Buffalo tend tò move away from humans shooting them, and some shots were probably at a longer distance than would be ideal.
D. Brian Casady
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
I agree completely. That's the same point I was trying to make, you just did a better job of it!
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Just last month finished reading "Life of Billy Dixon". Get the book if you haven't already, great read.
Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
https://texashillcountry.com/shot-centu ... n-history/
SNIP:
"Meanwhile, down in Adobe Walls, Billy Dixon took aim. He was using a Sharps Big Fifty, a single-shot with an octagonal, 34-inch barrel, firing a .50, 600-grain bullet driven by 125 grains of black powder. He dialed in his adjustable rear peep sight and got ready. He was aiming for the group of riders on the bluff, rather than any one particular target, and in later years he would call it a lucky shot, though he would also note, “I was not without confidence in my marksmanship.”
This does not detract from the skill of properly gauging the range.
SNIP:
"Meanwhile, down in Adobe Walls, Billy Dixon took aim. He was using a Sharps Big Fifty, a single-shot with an octagonal, 34-inch barrel, firing a .50, 600-grain bullet driven by 125 grains of black powder. He dialed in his adjustable rear peep sight and got ready. He was aiming for the group of riders on the bluff, rather than any one particular target, and in later years he would call it a lucky shot, though he would also note, “I was not without confidence in my marksmanship.”
This does not detract from the skill of properly gauging the range.
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
There was a lot of skill involved.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Thanks for the on location reporting! Great to see it live (almost).
- Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
I rested my .50 Sharps across the pickup bed and considered my chances of making that shot……not likely that I would come close.
Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
We were in the area a few years back and drove there and checked it out, it`s a long drive on a dirt road getting there but was happy we went there and seen it.
Not much activity there thought it would be more of a tourist attraction but wasn`t disappointed ya could feel what happened there.
Not much activity there thought it would be more of a tourist attraction but wasn`t disappointed ya could feel what happened there.
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Always consult an expert first.
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Another -- thanks for sharing your visit to an interesting historical site and event.
- Rube Burrows
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Would love to visit the area sometime. Thanks for sharing the pics.
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Scott, have you ever been to the "Friends of Billy Dixon" range? Don't know if it's still a going thing or not. Their website doesn't come up for me here in Coffee Country.
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Just for the record, according to Sharps scholar Frank Sellers the two standard loads for the .50 2 1/2-inch straight (introduced in July of 1872) were .50-100-425 grease-groove and .50-100-473 paper-patched.
I don't know where the gentleman quoted above came up with the "Big Fifty" load of 125 grains under a 600-grain bullet.
I don't know where the gentleman quoted above came up with the "Big Fifty" load of 125 grains under a 600-grain bullet.
- Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
I’ve seen that load written about elsewhere but I don’t know where it was written.
I suspect it’s from Dixon. He said that he borrowed the .50 because he didn’t think his .45-90 would carry that far.
He might not have been terribly familiar with a borrowed rifle. His autobiography says the rifle was a .50-90
I suspect it’s from Dixon. He said that he borrowed the .50 because he didn’t think his .45-90 would carry that far.
He might not have been terribly familiar with a borrowed rifle. His autobiography says the rifle was a .50-90
Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
.Scott Tschirhart wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:51 pm I’ve seen that load written about elsewhere but I don’t know where it was written.
I suspect it’s from Dixon. He said that he borrowed the .50 because he didn’t think his .45-90 would carry that far.
He might not have been terribly familiar with a borrowed rifle. His autobiography says the rifle was a .50-90
Scott, was the 50-90 an "express" load with something like a 300Gr bullet? Or did I just make that up?
- Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
I don’t think so. The express loads were generally in the lighter Winchester rifles.
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Mike Venturino has written about the results of archaeological surveys of the battle site. The fight started close in, with the Indians actually trying to batter down the doors and the defenders applied their handguns and Winchesters to the business at short range. The surveyors found .44 S&W American, .44 Colt and .44 Henry casings. Once the attackers were driven away from the buildings, the defenders then put their buffalo rifles to work; surveyors recovered .44-77, .44-90, .50-70 and .50-90 cases. No .40 cases were recovered, although the .40-70 SBN became widely popular after its introduction in 1869 and the .40-90 2 5/8 SBN had been introduced in May of 1873.
This is summarized from the chapter "The Buffalo Rifle in Combat" in Mike's excellent "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West."
This is summarized from the chapter "The Buffalo Rifle in Combat" in Mike's excellent "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West."
- Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
I’d be very surprised if there were not a great number of .44 Henry and .50-70 cartridge cases found on the property.
Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
I am not real familiar with all the old cartridges. Seems as if they were pretty effective when one looks at them with consideration for the technology of the time. I am familiar with the .45-70, and it still works well within its limits.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Limits! Brian, the 45/70 has Limits? I thought it was just me. LOL
Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Friends of Billy Dixon the last event they have listed is 2011. As I recall the inaugural even was 2008. I have wanted to go back for several years, but haven't heard anything beyond that. Maybe Cowboy Tutt knows more.
Griff,
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There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
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There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
I'm surprised they were not policed up to reload.Scott Tschirhart wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:09 am I’d be very surprised if there were not a great number of .44 Henry and .50-70 cartridge cases found on the property.
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- Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
The Henry was a rimfire cartridge. But you are certainly correct about the.50-70.Blaine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:03 pmI'm surprised they were not policed up to reload.Scott Tschirhart wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:09 am I’d be very surprised if there were not a great number of .44 Henry and .50-70 cartridge cases found on the property.
At Fort McKavett I’ve seen evidence that someone was casting bullets and reloading cartridges.
Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Found this in my saved images, I cant recall where i saved it from.
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"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
Thanks Malamute. I am not sure I have seen that before. It would sure be nice if we could locate the monument that now stands there on that map.
- Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Second battle of Adobe Walls
The creek and the bluff are really the only things that you can tell were there at the time. There isn’t anything to show where the buildings or the stockade would have been but it’s clear that they were somewhere in the general vicinity.