POLITICS - Why won't somebody call it what it is???

[HEAD0001]

Why won't somebody call it what it is??......... I am talking about what they are doing with gas prices. And I am talking about what they are doing by bailing out all the financial institutions.

The word I use is STEALING. They are flat out stealing from us. And our government lets it happen. And their excuse is supply and demand. Or we can not let them go bankrupt. Well I say why not?? Instead they pay their CEO's millions of dollars and send them on their merry way!! They should be going to PRISON. I would bet that the top 100 or so managers at Freddie and Fanny have made hundreds of millions if not a billion dollars over the past five years. And they have run the company in the ground. They keep their salary, and we pay more taxes?? I just do not get it??

I have 3 business degrees from WVU. So I did not fall off the turnip truck. And I can not believe what is going on!!! Tom.

[adirondakjack]

It frosts me too. This whole mortgage bailout bull. Folks who didn't take money they couldn't afford for houses too big to support get to PAY FOR those who did. those who lived within their means get to pay to bail out a company prosecuting a scorched earth policy of lending.....

Once again, the dummies who said "I can't afford that nonsense, and I ain't gonna re-fi my house to buy a motorhome get to HELP OUT the greedy slobs who did.

When my one man business flounders, will uncle sugar bail me out? Nope. I gotta be smart enough to stay afloat and pay for those who weren't.....

[mescalero1]

Don't know if I said this before here or not, but here goes.
I am positive there are people who did not know what they were doing, and were duped by unscrupulous lenders.
I feel for those people, and believe they should be helped; somehow.
But Yuppies playing with fast money should get it stuck to them with GREAT vigor!
How to tell them apart is problematic.

[Rusty]

No one is talking about it much because there is so much in the news right now to act as a diversion. As far as I'm concerned every one of the board members and the CEO's should go to jail for theft. As it is now they're all still going to get their golden parachutes.

[stretch]

Yep - it's frustrating to watch. If I get greedy, buy too much with money I don't have, I'll lose
my house, car , and everything else. Corporations get bailed out by the government.
Now GM is asking for a government bailout.

I feel for those folks who aren't too bright and got taken advantage of with some slick
double-talk. But the guys who wrote those loans, lied about the numbers, and in
some cases forged documents, SHOULD be going to jail.

[BenT]

No accountablity ! Must be nice to make decisions and not be responsable for your actions.

[O.S.O.K.]

Imagine what they were saying back just before the markets crashed and we headed into the great depression....

http://www.futurecasts.com/Depression_d ... 0of%201929

Notice how there's an abundance of debt - that can not be paid... other than by borrowing from some other country...

I've only got one business degree and it makes me think that we are on the rim of the toilette looking down.

I've been seeing this coming for some time now.

The greed and unethical behaviors of America's corporate officers is not the cause of this - it is just another symptom - disgusting as it is.

[AJMD429]

I get the Ludwig Von Mises newsletter daily in my e-mail, and find it enlightening, and yet frightening, as it points out just how little the general/voting public understands about the most basic issues involving economics.

http://mises.org:80/story/3057

[HEAD0001]

OSOK I disagree with you a bit. IMO the greed of the CEO's has a lot to do with it. I am sure the CEO's of Fannie and Freddie knew exactly what was coming. However as long as housng values were going up then the floor would stay under their escapades. But when the floor fell out from underneath housing values-well you know what happened. Personally I believe they lied and stole from the everyday stock owner.

I feel the same way about Lehman, and Bear Stearns. They all lied to cover their ***, with no consideration for the day in day out investor. And they kept cashing their million dollar paychecks, and BONUSES. And in the mean time they kept telling us to keep sending them money. You can trust us!! YA RIGHT.

I am not saying it is the CEO's only who are to blame. But they are a big part of it. I knew when the banking industry was deregulated that this was going to happen. Most business educated peole knew it was going to happen. But instead of doing something about it they tried to figure out how they could PROFIT from it. Tom.

[Ysabel Kid]

Though it will certainly help short term, the bail out of Freddie and Fannie is nothing but socialism - and will hurt us much more long term. Yes, the leadership of both organizations should be eyeballing prison bars not golden parachutes. But much of the current housing market issues falls squarely on the US government - specifically Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Both, through legislation they signed, and threats from government departments, forced lending institutions to take on loans that they would not have in a million years without the threat of government forcing the issue. Granted, greed did come into play - but I think it was more that they realized they had too and simply hoped that the housing bubble wouldn't burst on their watch. So, after the government caused the problems to begin with, now they want to make it worse. At least they are consistent.

As for gas jumping so sharply the last few days, I have no problem with that at all. Many people make the mistake of thinking that the price of something represents its value that moment, or worse, the sum total of the costs when the item was made. Any jump in price on a item is, in their minds, just someone taking advantage of current conditions to make more margin - "windfall profit", if you will (to use the terminology they like). Problem is, that is not what a price really is. In an on-going market, price also reflects the future value of something, and what it will cost to replace it.

So, let's say gas was selling, as it was in my area, for $3.45 at the beginning of the week. The gas in the storage tanks of the gas station might have cost them around $2.70 to get, the difference being the taxes added to the price and their profit margin (around 10%). Gas jumped up to $3.79/gallon when I purchased it at lunch time on Friday, and was over $4/gallon at some stores by the end of the work day. Were they just trying to make more money? No. They realized that the probable impact of hurricane Ike would be to reduce supply - short term - in the future by damaging refining capability. To replace the gas in their storage tanks they would need to purchase it at a much higher price. If they had not sold their current gas for the anticipated price, when they went to replace it they would be unable to do so, or would need to dig out of their own pockets to do so. Bad business decision - especially for small independent franchise gas stations.

Raising prices in the face of potential supply disruptions is also a great way to mitigate demand. For example (from economist Walter Williams after hurricane Katrina), let's say all the retailers selling bottled water raise their prices from $1.00/bottle to $5.00/bottle right before and after the hurricane hits. Some people with accuse them of taking advantage of the situation. But at $5.00 a bottle, people will only buy just what they actually need and can afford. More people will have water, rather than the first people just hording it needlessly. If someone decides not to raise price - and keeps it at $1.00 a bottle while everyone else is selling it for $5.00 a bottle, that person will sell out very fast. Sure, they could put a limit on the number of bottles, but it will still be gone quickly. Will they check the incomes of everyone purchasing to determine who should get it? I doubt it. If they let the market decide, they don't have to. And when he goes to get more water? He doesn't have the funds to replace it. Those with bottled water elsewhere are incentivized to ship it to the area hit, because they can get a better price for it. The needed item then moves to where it is needed most.

What happened in my area? A lot of gas stations were out of gas by mid-afternoon. Panic sets in and people horde needlessly. Rising prices can help control this natural inclination. The market works - if it is allowed to do so.

BTW - when the gas station buys gas high and the price falls while it is in his tank - and he has to lower it to be competitive - who cries for him then? If he has managed his inventory and sold at market prices, he can absorb these ups and downs and stay in business. If he hasn't, well, hopefully the next guy is a better businessman...

[HEAD0001]

Sorry but I am not buying the Free Market Forces, or the Supply and Demand Theory when it comes to gas prices, and more importantly when it comes to crude oil prices. When you can explain to me how OPEC is operating under Free Market Forces then I might listen. But I hardly think FMF has anything to do with OPEC. Also when you can explain to me how SPECULATORS fit into the FMF theory then I will also listen to you.

Speculating and shorting markets is a big part of what has got us in trouble today. People actually making money on the woes of a fellow investor. I do not call that good business, I call that stealing. And the worst part is that they are not even doing it with their own money. They are either doing it with an investors money, or no actual cash at all.

I am sorry but fuel prices are just too important to the country to allow the market to be controlled by a bunch of greedy money hungry speculators. But this is just my opinion. I could be wrong. Tom.

[adirondakjack]

I said it back when they bailed out Chrysler. Though Lee and co repaid ahead of schedule, the PRECEDENT noodled the pooch big time, and paved the way for reversing the GOOD that comes from "social darwinism" in the marketplace. Nothing like the guy down the block going belly up to get ya working harder and smarter.... When the government UNDERWRITES certain outcomes, it fails on every level to allow the MARKET to determine what is RIGHt and profitable.

Gee, maybe I need to start loaning money to crackheads so when I go broke I can get a bailout......

[Blaine]

Gee, maybe I need to start loaning money to crackheads so when I go broke I can get a bailout......

The Gubment beat ya to it.....welfare

[jeepnik]

Now for a somewhat different view. We are a capitalist country. I have a product to sell, I set the price. If you want it for that price, you buy and it's yours. If you think it costs too much, you don't buy it, and I don't make a profit. Personally, I think the government should just stay out of it.

Every darned time they get involved things get worse. Remember when they broke up AT&T. They told us things would be better, rates would be cheaper. Oops, they miscalculated that one.

If they let the system work as it should, if someone tries to gouge the customer on prices, a competitor will come along and offer the same or better for less. Think about what happend to Ford & Chevy. They were all fat as sassy thinking they had no competition. Oops, they miscalculated on that one.

The capitalist model has been working well for a long time, as long as a bunch of self important do gooders keep out of it.

[Hankster]

Ford And Chevy??? Same as the rest.....Dumb *** Ceo's and management. Gas was going to go up..whole world knew it. everyone else engineered decent vehicles that got good gas economy.... Ford/Gm/Chrysler kept turning out crappy engineered gas hogs.....and the consumer went with the product that suited his needs best....FOREIGN CARS.....now they cry and go "What happened"?!?!?! Thier leadership deserves the Traitor award..same as Freddie and Fannie and the rest....sell out your nation for some personal quick bucks. Thanks guys....

[HEAD0001]

Did you guys ever think about the point that Ford and GM might want to go bankrupt. I have been of the opinion that they have been looking for the right opportunity for bankruptcy.

There is only one way that Ford and GM are going to be able to get rid of the all the commitments they made to their retirees. BANKRUPTCY. It has been coming for some time now. This is the main reason why the government will bail them out. If they do not bail them out then the government will have to assume all the retirees benefits!!

And as far as capitalism is concerned. I am not buying that one either. Our economy is not based on capitalism. If it was then the government would have never broken up Standard Oil such a long time ago. The government has been in the business regulating "business" for a long time. Not to mention the steel industry, and the communications industry.

My main point is that FUEL is too important to the well being, and the future of our country. And gouging just does not cut it with me. Tom.

[El Chivo]

about the gas prices, gasoline is most competitively priced product we buy. The retailers change their prices daily to accomodate the market, up or down. Nobody else does that. Most products, when the price goes up, it stays up.

Some insiders might disagree, say there's price fixing and all that, but for the corner gas station it's all market forces.

You may hate the higher prices, but, it ensures supply. It makes sure you have all the gas you want. If the government stepped in and limited gas prices, you'd instantly have - low prices and no gas. How will you like that?

I see plenty of people on the road, with trailers hauling motor bikes, boats, etc. But, as far as oil companies stealing, not hardly. Customers are coming in and buying their product voluntarily, and if it gets too expensive, they'll stop or cut down.

It's my understanding that speculation in the market is what spiked the price. Wall Street types were buying oil futures in the hopes of selling it later at higher prices. That's more customers competing for the same oil, which increases the price. This has nothing to do with the oil companies stealing or being mean.

Let's hope the speculators lose money on oil and start buying Winchesters.

[Paladin]

jeepnik +1

[bunklocoempire]

I call it stealing and treason. I won't vote for someone party to treason in my Country. McCain or Obama mention the Federal Reserve yet? No? They WON"T.

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=1086
Oil prices are on the minds of many Americans as gas hits $4 a gallon, and continues to surge. How high can prices go? How can we solve these problems? What, or who, is to blame?
Part of the answer lies in understanding bubbles and monetary inflation, but especially the Federal Reserve System. The Federal Reserve is charged with controlling inflation through interest rate manipulation, however, many fail to realize that creating money, and therefore inflation, is really its only tool. When the Federal Reserve inflates the dollar as drastically as it has in the past few decades, the first users of the newly created money go in search of investments for their dollars. They must invest this money quickly and aggressively before it loses value. This causes certain sectors to expand beyond what would naturally occur in the free market. Eventually the sector overheats and the bubble bursts. Overinvestment in dotcoms eventually led to a collapse of the NASDAQ. Next we had the housing bubble, and now we are seeing the price of oil being bid up in the creation of another new bubble. Investors are now looking to commodities like oil, for stability and growth as they pull capital out of real estate. This increased demand for investment vehicles related to oil contributes to driving up the price of the actual product.

http://mises.org/story/1324 Did the Framers Favor Hard Money?
Does the Federal Government have the power to charter a mixed public/private bank, establish a central bank, or regulate the currency supply? The question was raised only three years after the ratification of the Constitution when Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton proposed the chartering of a national bank (mixed private/public ownership) with the power to discount notes, issue currency, lend money to the government, and hold and disburse government funds.

The Federal Reserve screws with ALL OF THESE. and more.

United States Constitution, Article 1 Section 8

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
*

*

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_ ... %20Banking
The federal government has departed from the principle of "coin" money as defined by the U.S. Constitution and the Mint Act of 1792 and has granted unconstitutional control of the nation's monetary and banking system to the private Federal Reserve System.

The Constitution Party recommends a substantive reform of the system of Federal taxation. In order for such reform to be effective, it is necessary that these United States:

Return to the money system set forth in the Constitution;
Repeal the Federal Reserve Act, and reform the current Federal Reserve banks to become clearing houses only; and
Prohibit fractional reserve banking.
It is our intention that no system of "debt money" shall be imposed on the people of these United States. We support a debt free, interest free money system.

Edit: There is nothing "free" about a "free market" which is doped up on imaginary interest rates set by PRIVATE banks, congress will place great importance on juicing concerning steroids and baseball, yet they do nothing concerning the juicing of what's suppose to be a free market. Now more than ever before the democrats are pointing fingers at our "free market", and republicans want to give the PRIVATE banks MORE control.

END DOMESTIC ABUSE - VOTE THIRD PARTY

Bunkloco

[Ray Newman]

Head0001: so exactly what is your answer to this "fuel cost problem"??

[tman]

it's the same old game. corporate welfare for the rich. the focus will be on the few who bought houses they coudn't afford. once again, the wealthy will be bailed out by the middle class. remember the savings and loan buyout scandal 20 years ago? i'm sure all of these criminals will sail away on their golden parachutes without facing any prosecution. instead let's focus on some poor slob who bought a house 8 years ago. gas was .99 cents a gallon. food and clothing were the same. to bad he got an adjustable rate mortgage. interests rates rose along with health care costs. poor slob hasn't got a raise in 8 years while the cost of living went thru the roof. watch who suffers and who comes out smelling like a rose. bet you it won't be the poor slob.

[O.S.O.K.]

I call it stealing and treason. I won't vote for someone party to treason in my Country. McCain or Obama mention the Federal Reserve yet? No? They WON"T.

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=1086
Oil prices are on the minds of many Americans as gas hits $4 a gallon, and continues to surge. How high can prices go? How can we solve these problems? What, or who, is to blame?
Part of the answer lies in understanding bubbles and monetary inflation, but especially the Federal Reserve System. The Federal Reserve is charged with controlling inflation through interest rate manipulation, however, many fail to realize that creating money, and therefore inflation, is really its only tool. When the Federal Reserve inflates the dollar as drastically as it has in the past few decades, the first users of the newly created money go in search of investments for their dollars. They must invest this money quickly and aggressively before it loses value. This causes certain sectors to expand beyond what would naturally occur in the free market. Eventually the sector overheats and the bubble bursts. Overinvestment in dotcoms eventually led to a collapse of the NASDAQ. Next we had the housing bubble, and now we are seeing the price of oil being bid up in the creation of another new bubble. Investors are now looking to commodities like oil, for stability and growth as they pull capital out of real estate. This increased demand for investment vehicles related to oil contributes to driving up the price of the actual product.

http://mises.org/story/1324 Did the Framers Favor Hard Money?
Does the Federal Government have the power to charter a mixed public/private bank, establish a central bank, or regulate the currency supply? The question was raised only three years after the ratification of the Constitution when Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton proposed the chartering of a national bank (mixed private/public ownership) with the power to discount notes, issue currency, lend money to the government, and hold and disburse government funds.

The Federal Reserve screws with ALL OF THESE. and more.

United States Constitution, Article 1 Section 8

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
*

*

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_ ... %20Banking
The federal government has departed from the principle of "coin" money as defined by the U.S. Constitution and the Mint Act of 1792 and has granted unconstitutional control of the nation's monetary and banking system to the private Federal Reserve System.

The Constitution Party recommends a substantive reform of the system of Federal taxation. In order for such reform to be effective, it is necessary that these United States:

Return to the money system set forth in the Constitution;
Repeal the Federal Reserve Act, and reform the current Federal Reserve banks to become clearing houses only; and
Prohibit fractional reserve banking.
It is our intention that no system of "debt money" shall be imposed on the people of these United States. We support a debt free, interest free money system.

Edit: There is nothing "free" about a "free market" which is doped up on imaginary interest rates set by PRIVATE banks, congress will place great importance on juicing concerning steroids and baseball, yet they do nothing concerning the juicing of what's suppose to be a free market. Now more than ever before the democrats are pointing fingers at our "free market", and republicans want to give the PRIVATE banks MORE control.

END DOMESTIC ABUSE - VOTE THIRD PARTY

Bunkloco

Teddy Roosevelt blocked the formation of the Fed twice. Then came Wilson who complied with the creation of it. He later was quoted as saying that "that was my biggest mistake as President". No kidding.

I will say that oil prices are primarily controled by world wide demand vs supply. Now of course, the supply is manipulated by OPEC. But the demand has been rising steadily as China and India, etc. have increased their standards of living and their lust for energy.

We are witnessing the free market (such as it is) reacting to the higher costs - people are switching to smaller cars and motorcylces and this will only increase. Entrepenures are working to provide new high milage vehicle alternatives http://www.wildfirevehicles.com is an example.

However, I think we are too far gone with debt to ever hope to be able to perform our way out of it - we had the opportunity to head this off but didn't take it. We could have cut govt. programs and deregulated health care, etc. but not enough people (voters) were cognizent and the policital leadership didn't want to take the chance of telling us the truth and what needed to be done.

So here we are.

[TomD]

The bottom line about governments is that they have the monopoly on violence in a particular area. Not the monopoly on comon sense, or a chrystal ball.

[Idahoser]

The word I use is STEALING.

No sir, your degrees have misled you apparently. Nobody holds a gun to your head and makes you buy gas, unlike the folks that hold a gun to your head and make you buy a bridge to nowhere or mortgages for deadbeats.

If you don't like it you are free to work out a better way.

The mother of invention is not government.

The price you're paying for a gallon of gas is still a fourth of what Germans have been paying for decades.

[HEAD0001]

The word I use is STEALING.

The price you're paying for a gallon of gas is still a fourth of what Germans have been paying for decades.

I really could care less what the Germans pay for gas. However I am very sure their government is also involved in the "gouging and stealing". Tom.

[Ray Newman]

Head0001: so again I ask exactly what is your answer or solution to this "fuel cost problem"??

[HEAD0001]

Head0001: so again I ask exactly what is your answer or solution to this "fuel cost problem"??

Please accept my apology for not answering the first time. And I will be perfectly honest. I truly do not know!! I wish I did, but I do not. I have some ideas, but I will admit that the problem is way over my head. Or should I say "It is above my pay grade".

I did not mean for the post to get out of control. I was really just venting a little bit. If I offended anyone I did not mean to.

I really do believe I understand what is going on, from a business point of view. But the problem is so complex that I do not know if there is a real answer. I am probably like a lot of the other guys here, and I hate government involvement or intrusion. But I can not see any other way around it. Tom.

[Idahoser]

...and I hate government involvement or intrusion. But I can not see any other way around it. Tom.

See, that's exactly the problem, in a nutshell. People who have the capacity to understand that the gov't has caused the problem, nevertheless expect more of the same to have a different result. That's the definition of

...what was that again?

The Cindy Sheehans and Michael Moores of the world have not caused this problem. Nutjobs don't get the power to do that. WE have done this, with our 'single issue voting' and accepting 'lesser evil'.

[johnly]

I'm no big goverment fan, but the morgage mess was caused by greed and quick buck artists.

The Feds deregulated the banking industry thinking that they were mature professionals, capable of following the most basic financial axioms. Clearly their assessment of the situation was wrong.

I liken this situation to a parent giving an 18 y/o male a car, they trust them to operate it prudently. He gets stupid by driving it at high speed and impacts another vehicle killing the passengers. The young male dosen't have squat as far as assets, so the family of the deceased sue the car manufactuer. Is the car manufacturer really to blame for the poor judgement of the driver? Should the goverment decide what kind of car you should own? BTW, the above story is true.

Those people that took out "sub-prime" morgages and "lost" their home, generally have no equity in the home, so what exactly did they loose? If things would have turned out differently for them and the lender, they each would have crowed about their visionary investement. When things go bad, they look to blame someone else rather than themselves. The net result is that everyone gets burdened in one way or another.

John

[Idahoser]

I'm no big goverment fan, but the morgage mess was caused by greed and quick buck artists.

so why did it not happen in the centuries before "diversity" was mandated by DC?

The Feds deregulated the banking industry thinking that they were mature professionals, capable of following the most basic financial axioms. Clearly their assessment of the situation was wrong.

this assumes gov't is actually more mature and could have chosen more wisely. Heh.

I liken this situation to a parent giving an 18 y/o

Alright, you've described what is legally an adult, who if the parent didn't give it to him would certainly be able to get one on his own. So blaming the parents from here on out for anything he does is misplaced. Proceed:

male a car, they trust them to operate it prudently. He gets stupid by driving it at high speed and impacts another vehicle killing the passengers. The young male dosen't have squat as far as assets, so the family of the deceased sue the car manufactuer. Is the car manufacturer really to blame for the poor judgement of the driver? Should the goverment decide what kind of car you should own? BTW, the above story is true.

then blame the one that's actually at fault. The jury.

You can talk it to death and it doesn't change the fact that more gov't just makes a bad situation worse, and that doesn't change just because you get so flustered that it gets forgotten.

[HEAD0001]

I'm no big goverment fan, but the morgage mess was caused by greed and quick buck artists.

so why did it not happen in the centuries before "diversity" was mandated by DC?

The reason why it did not happen is simple. First, The banks that were giving loans on the most part were local banks that held the paper. So if the local bank made a bad loan they paid the price. Second, The loans were not bundled, but after deregulation all the institutions involved, bundled their loans and sold them on the bond market. Therefore these institutions had no additional liabilities.

It sounds to me like you want no regulation?? Now that is what I would call letting the inmates run the assylum!!

The problem is not regulation itself. The problem is the people in charge are not responsible enough to write the regulation. And then there is no enforcement after legislation is written.

Most of what happened is illegal right now. However the enforcement agencies were asleep at the wheel. Pretty hard to believe?? Not for me?? It kind of reminds me of gun laws. Plenty on the books, but no enforcement.

Greed is in the drivers seat!! And that is the problem. Tom.

[Idahoser]

Greed is in the drivers seat!! And that is the problem. Tom.

Well. Okay, I guess greedy politicians would fit both our definitions of the problem.

"No regulation" is precisely what I want, because what you call regulation is gov't interference. I want the real regulation of the market, free of interference by politicians. So yes, by your definition that would be 'no regulation'.

What the heck difference does it make anyway? Dark ages are upon us in any case.

[johnly]

If you deny a morgage to someone with poor credit, they are being opressed and cheated out of the "American Dream."
If you offer this person a morgage that they can't afford, but they accept it anyhow, you are taking advantage of them.

Pick either answer and you loose....

John

[rhead]

Didn't the congress pass a law about a dozen years ago that stopped the terrible practice of turning someone down for a mortgage just because they probably wouldn't be able to afford the payments? The banks were told to find a way to make the loan. Now the very people who were the cause of the problem are blaming the businesses that the forced into doing what was done.

The gas prices skyrocked after the latest epa regs went into effect. The fuel that would pass the epa regs also destroyed the fuel pumps. the cost for fixing that and removing the sulfur, (that seems to have been doing more good than harm) almost almost doubled the cost of the fuel and along with the crash test and mileage requirments may have bankrupted the auto industry.

Regulation is the problem, not the solution.

[PaulB]

I am sorry but fuel prices are just too important to the country to allow the market to be controlled by a bunch of greedy money hungry speculators.

So, you want government to control fuel prices? You understand this is advocating communism, right?

We went through this before in the 70's. Government did regulate prices, and what we ended up with were shortages, as oil companies invested their money elsewhere. As soon as Reagan knocked out the regulation, the shortages ended.

Anyway, there are two prime reasons for rising gas prices: 1) government printing dollars like there is no tomorrow (inflation), and 2) disruptions of the oil supply caused by war. Our war. Our pointless (except for war profiteers), illegal, immoral, dumb-butt war.

I get bored when people start playing the blame game, "greedy speculators" and so forth. Everyone is greedy. Everyone has their hand out for loot stolen by government. Social(ist) Security? You're on the dole. Kids in government schools? You're on the dole. Medicare? The dole. Farm subsidies? The dole. Patronize government libraries? The dole.

As Kierkegaard put it, "All the shrewdness of 'man' seeks one thing: to be able to live without responsibility." That's all well and good, but it has to come to an end some day. That day is upon us.