POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
Old Ironsights
Posting leader...
Posts: 15084
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:27 am
Location: Waiting for the Collapse
Contact:

POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by Old Ironsights »

Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1

3rd Infantry’s 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping ‘people at home’ may become a permanent part of the active Army

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/a ... d_090708w/

:evil:

Welkommen sie zu Homeland Security. HALT! Starting Oct 1 in case of "civilian unrest", just in time for the elections and financial crisis. This mission will become a "permanent one". The US will now become "occupied", gradually, just like Iraq. Can you say "police state"?

Better start yelling NOW before you won't be allowed to any more.

Before it gets pulled:
Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1

3rd Infantry’s 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping ‘people at home’ may become a permanent part of the active Army
By Gina Cavallaro - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Sep 30, 2008 16:16:12 EDT

The 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team has spent 35 of the last 60 months in Iraq patrolling in full battle rattle, helping restore essential services and escorting supply convoys.

Now they’re training for the same mission — with a twist — at home.

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.

It is not the first time an active-duty unit has been tapped to help at home. In August 2005, for example, when Hurricane Katrina unleashed hell in Mississippi and Louisiana, several active-duty units were pulled from various posts and mobilized to those areas.

But this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.

After 1st BCT finishes its dwell-time mission, expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one.

“Right now, the response force requirement will be an enduring mission. How the [Defense Department] chooses to source that and whether or not they continue to assign them to NorthCom, that could change in the future,” said Army Col. Louis Vogler, chief of NorthCom future operations. “Now, the plan is to assign a force every year.”

The command is at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, Colo., but the soldiers with 1st BCT, who returned in April after 15 months in Iraq, will operate out of their home post at Fort Stewart, Ga., where they’ll be able to go to school, spend time with their families and train for their new homeland mission as well as the counterinsurgency mission in the war zones.

Stop-loss will not be in effect, so soldiers will be able to leave the Army or move to new assignments during the mission, and the operational tempo will be variable.

Don’t look for any extra time off, though. The at-home mission does not take the place of scheduled combat-zone deployments and will take place during the so-called dwell time a unit gets to reset and regenerate after a deployment.

The 1st of the 3rd is still scheduled to deploy to either Iraq or Afghanistan in early 2010, which means the soldiers will have been home a minimum of 20 months by the time they ship out.

In the meantime, they’ll learn new skills, use some of the ones they acquired in the war zone and more than likely will not be shot at while doing any of it.

They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack.

Training for homeland scenarios has already begun at Fort Stewart and includes specialty tasks such as knowing how to use the “jaws of life” to extract a person from a mangled vehicle; extra medical training for a CBRNE incident; and working with U.S. Forestry Service experts on how to go in with chainsaws and cut and clear trees to clear a road or area.

The 1st BCT’s soldiers also will learn how to use “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.

The package is for use only in war-zone operations, not for any domestic purpose.

“It’s a new modular package of nonlethal capabilities that they’re fielding. They’ve been using pieces of it in Iraq, but this is the first time that these modules were consolidated and this package fielded, and because of this mission we’re undertaking we were the first to get it.”

The package includes equipment to stand up a hasty road block; spike strips for slowing, stopping or controlling traffic; shields and batons; and, beanbag bullets.

“I was the first guy in the brigade to get Tasered,” said Cloutier, describing the experience as “your worst muscle cramp ever — times 10 throughout your whole body.

“I’m not a small guy, I weigh 230 pounds ... it put me on my knees in seconds.”

The brigade will not change its name, but the force will be known for the next year as a CBRNE Consequence Management Response Force, or CCMRF (pronounced “sea-smurf”).

“I can’t think of a more noble mission than this,” said Cloutier, who took command in July. “We’ve been all over the world during this time of conflict, but now our mission is to take care of citizens at home ... and depending on where an event occurred, you’re going home to take care of your home town, your loved ones.”

While soldiers’ combat training is applicable, he said, some nuances don’t apply.

“If we go in, we’re going in to help American citizens on American soil, to save lives, provide critical life support, help clear debris, restore normalcy and support whatever local agencies need us to do, so it’s kind of a different role,” said Cloutier, who, as the division operations officer on the last rotation, learned of the homeland mission a few months ago while they were still in Iraq.

Some brigade elements will be on call around the clock, during which time they’ll do their regular marksmanship, gunnery and other deployment training. That’s because the unit will continue to train and reset for the next deployment, even as it serves in its CCMRF mission.

Should personnel be needed at an earthquake in California, for example, all or part of the brigade could be scrambled there, depending on the extent of the need and the specialties involved.

Other branches included
The active Army’s new dwell-time mission is part of a NorthCom and DOD response package.

Active-duty soldiers will be part of a force that includes elements from other military branches and dedicated National Guard Weapons of Mass Destruction-Civil Support Teams.

A final mission rehearsal exercise is scheduled for mid-September at Fort Stewart and will be run by Joint Task Force Civil Support, a unit based out of Fort Monroe, Va., that will coordinate and evaluate the interservice event.

In addition to 1st BCT, other Army units will take part in the two-week training exercise, including elements of the 1st Medical Brigade out of Fort Hood, Texas, and the 82nd Combat Aviation Brigade from Fort Bragg, N.C.

There also will be Air Force engineer and medical units, the Marine Corps Chemical, Biological Initial Reaction Force, a Navy weather team and members of the Defense Logistics Agency and the Defense Threat Reduction Agency.

One of the things Vogler said they’ll be looking at is communications capabilities between the services.

“It is a concern, and we’re trying to check that and one of the ways we do that is by having these sorts of exercises. Leading up to this, we are going to rehearse and set up some of the communications systems to make sure we have interoperability,” he said.

“I don’t know what America’s overall plan is — I just know that 24 hours a day, seven days a week, there are soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines that are standing by to come and help if they’re called,” Cloutier said. “It makes me feel good as an American to know that my country has dedicated a force to come in and help the people at home.”
Any Officer who supports this should be Cashiered and Hung.
Last edited by Old Ironsights on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
rjohns94
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 10820
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:02 pm
Location: York, PA

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by rjohns94 »

HOLY stuff!!! :evil:
Mike Johnson,

"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
L8agin
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:46 pm

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by L8agin »

Another handy tool in the Obama regiem.
bunklocoempire
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Big Island

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by bunklocoempire »

L8agin wrote:Another handy tool in the Obama regiem.
...and gladly handed to them by the current Republican administration....yes? Yes. They're BOTH government.

A nice compliment to the "Patriot" Act.




Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 32266
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by AJMD429 »

bunklocoempire wrote:
L8agin wrote:Another handy tool in the Obama regiem.
...and gladly handed to them by the current Republican administration....yes? Yes. They're BOTH government.
A nice compliment to the "Patriot" Act.
Bunkloco
Until we realize that there is another dimension ('Authoritarian' vs. 'Libertarian') beyond the simplistic 'Left' and 'Right' that our mainstream media has polarized us into, our political 'debates' have all the meaning of re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.


http://www.friesian.com/quiz.htm
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
donw
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:37 am
Location: high desert of southern caliphornia

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by donw »

it's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when" the police state openly emerges; we are all aware of what's coming. or at least, we should be; especially those of you who are christian

obama will, if elected, first neutralize the second amendment in some way...by appointment of exteme leftist/marxist justices to the supreme court is the most obvious and most likely...from there, who knows which direction we will go.

but just as, if not more, frightening to me is the thought of his wife being "in power"...they're both angry, arrogant, hate-filled people (it appears that barry, AKA barack, has abandoned and scorns all connections with his "white side") who will no doubt undertake a mission to 'punish' those who have opposed/offended them in the past, but his wife has the look of hate in her eyes, right down to the bottom of her soul...all one has to do to realize that is to look at them :( :cry:

hard times are ahead my friends...one would do well to strengthen their resolve thru the word.
if you think you're influencial, try telling someone else's dog what to do---will rogers
User avatar
Old Ironsights
Posting leader...
Posts: 15084
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:27 am
Location: Waiting for the Collapse
Contact:

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by Old Ironsights »

AJMD429 wrote:
bunklocoempire wrote:
L8agin wrote:Another handy tool in the Obama regiem.
...and gladly handed to them by the current Republican administration....yes? Yes. They're BOTH government.
A nice compliment to the "Patriot" Act.
Bunkloco
Until we realize that there is another dimension ('Authoritarian' vs. 'Libertarian') beyond the simplistic 'Left' and 'Right' that our mainstream media has polarized us into, our political 'debates' have all the meaning of re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.


http://www.friesian.com/quiz.htm
ARDP - the Authoritarian ReDemocraplican Party.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
bunklocoempire
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Big Island

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by bunklocoempire »

AJMD429 wrote:
bunklocoempire wrote:
L8agin wrote:Another handy tool in the Obama regiem.
...and gladly handed to them by the current Republican administration....yes? Yes. They're BOTH government.
A nice compliment to the "Patriot" Act.
Bunkloco
Until we realize that there is another dimension ('Authoritarian' vs. 'Libertarian') beyond the simplistic 'Left' and 'Right' that our mainstream media has polarized us into, our political 'debates' have all the meaning of re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.


http://www.friesian.com/quiz.htm
Divide and conquer.

Darn straight, I've got NO problem fighting the monster along side a Democrat/other. Just as they scratch each others backs at the top of the food chain, those of us at the bottom can do the same.

Strange as it sounds, conservatives and liberals have never had so much in common at the bottom. It's been proven what happens when they both "come together" at the top. :x

Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
User avatar
O.S.O.K.
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 5533
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:15 pm
Location: Deep in the Piney Woods of Mississippi

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by O.S.O.K. »

Boys, we may be proving Thomas Jefferson's famous quote to be true if things keep going the way they are.

You know, the one about the tree of liberty needing to be watered with blood every so often.... :(
NRA Endowment Life
Phi Kappa Sigma, Alpha Phi 83 "Skulls"
OCS, 120th MP Battalion, MSSG
MOLON LABE!
bunklocoempire
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Big Island

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by bunklocoempire »

The Tree of Liberty.


Can any with a clear conscience justify possible violent resistance when peaceful (voting) resistance has not been exhausted? Yes, that means considering third party.

We all gotta get our consciences clear. Sooner the better to avoid watering with blood, and, if there is blood, no doubt as to justification. I believe we all prefer peaceful.



Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
User avatar
Old Ironsights
Posting leader...
Posts: 15084
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:27 am
Location: Waiting for the Collapse
Contact:

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by Old Ironsights »

Sadly, even on "gun" boards there are people who are willing to give this a pass... even suggest it might be a good thing.

They forget that there is a fundamental philosophical difference between impressing a Ship &/or few Units to act as sandbaggers or run a desalinator/hospital ship & having a "Standing Army" of a Mobilized Combat Unit hanging like the sword of Damocles just waiting for the "emergency" necessary to send them out to do "Crowd Control"...
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
morgan in nm
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 532
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:04 pm
Location: Eastern NM

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by morgan in nm »

Its about time to pull the constitution out of the trash, dust it off, and put it back on the wall.

What ever happened to the moral codes that everybody, including the politicians, lived by where everybody did what was right for themselves and their neighbors. It seems that every time that you turn around these days, somebody is trying to get ya. Maybe these politicians need to go to church more often.
bunklocoempire
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Big Island

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by bunklocoempire »

Old Ironsights wrote:Sadly, even on "gun" boards there are people who are willing to give this a pass... even suggest it might be a good thing.

They forget that there is a fundamental philosophical difference between impressing a Ship &/or few Units to act as sandbaggers or run a desalinator/hospital ship & having a "Standing Army" of a Mobilized Combat Unit hanging like the sword of Damocles just waiting for the "emergency" necessary to send them out to do "Crowd Control"...

:( A gun does not a patriot make, seems sometimes guns simply serve as a baby pacifier (I've been there :oops: ). Please keep trying to educate them.


Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
45Jack
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:27 pm
Location: NE Illinois

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by 45Jack »

The Constitution may not be perfect, but it's better than what we're using now.
bunklocoempire
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Big Island

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by bunklocoempire »

With the bail out bill championed by both sides bringing us again closer to an economic collapse (inflating the dollar/hyper-inflation i.e. man-made disaster) it might be a good thing to explore your voting options. Has McCain or Obama mentioned troops on our soil yet? Do you honestly think they would?

Chuck Baldwin, Constitution Party candidate mentions it.

"...in 2006, President George W. Bush pushed a Republican-controlled Congress to pass the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007, which included a section titled "Use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies." This section provided that "The President may employ the armed forces to restore public order in any State of the United States the President determines...." In effect, this bill obliterated Posse Comitatus."

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/baldwin/081001

Can a third party win? Or more realistically, can any with a clear conscience use their 2nd Amendment right to fight tyranny effectively, if they have not exhausted the peaceful means available to them?

Do we really believe in the 2nd Amendment as intended?

Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
kirkwood
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:46 pm

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by kirkwood »

I've lived through civil anarchy here in the US and I doubt that too many others on this forum can say the same. My rights and the rights of every other citizen in the area affected by Hurricane Katrina was totally trashed by the local and state police agencies. Police officers from out of state came uninvited into the area, some wearing non-descript uniforms and no identification, and became vigilantes doling out their own form of justice. They disarmed citizens and then looted and left. To this day, I have no trust in any police officer in this area. These are the people who grabbed citizens out of their homes, beat them, and threw them into makeshift jails with no due process. If you don't beleive it, check with the NRA who documented scores of complaints - and many more cases went unreported.

Only after the National Guard arrived were our constitional rights respected and protected, if not fully restored. Whereas the typial police tactic was to draw on citizens or harrass them in their homes, the National Guard came in and immediately began protecting the citizens from the out of control police forces. Maybe it came across in the main stream media in the rest of the country that the Guard was here to quell looters and such, but really they were here to quell the out of control police state that had formed in this lawless vacuum.
Idahoser

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by Idahoser »

Besides, Posse Comitatus has been circumvented by SWAT teams, it's meaningless anymore.
bunklocoempire
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Big Island

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by bunklocoempire »

kirkwood wrote:I've lived through civil anarchy here in the US and I doubt that too many others on this forum can say the same. My rights and the rights of every other citizen in the area affected by Hurricane Katrina was totally trashed by the local and state police agencies. Police officers from out of state came uninvited into the area, some wearing non-descript uniforms and no identification, and became vigilantes doling out their own form of justice. They disarmed citizens and then looted and left. To this day, I have no trust in any police officer in this area. These are the people who grabbed citizens out of their homes, beat them, and threw them into makeshift jails with no due process. If you don't beleive it, check with the NRA who documented scores of complaints - and many more cases went unreported.

Only after the National Guard arrived were our constitional rights respected and protected, if not fully restored. Whereas the typial police tactic was to draw on citizens or harrass them in their homes, the National Guard came in and immediately began protecting the citizens from the out of control police forces. Maybe it came across in the main stream media in the rest of the country that the Guard was here to quell looters and such, but really they were here to quell the out of control police state that had formed in this lawless vacuum.
Thanks for your reply.

Does anybody here sometimes distrust the relationships between their state government and big businesses in their state? How the heck would unified command be related to that? Well.............

As you do, I have my own personal experience (my state of Hawaii) with a "unified command". Please any correct me if my terminolgy is wrong, at any rate I hope you understand my concern and own experience.

First I understand everyone has their own "line in the sand", and apparently none of the gun owners whose weapons were confiscated own lines had been crossed (when and how to resist). This is indeed an individuals decision. But at the same time it can show us the mindset of some (most?) gun owners. Hard to honestly say how any of us would react.

Please understand I have the highest respect for the National Guard, and all of our members of service, however, the leaders who direct their actions are a different story.

I find it somewhat optimistic to think those calling the shots concerning sending in the National Guard will always make the right decisons. The National Guard (from what I've seen) isn't neccessarily put into action to guard against infringement of rights, 1st, 2nd Amendment and so on. It may have worked out that way in your neck of the woods, but not in mine.

My experience has to do with the Coast Guard and the Hawaiian SuperFerry. I do praise the Coast Guard for their handling of themselves in the situation they were put in by our Republican Governor Linda Lingle and the Democrat Legislators.

Long story short, Hawaii like any other state has enviromental laws, some may see these as wacky or what have you, but they are laws.

The Hawaii SuperFerry (private company) coming into business for inter-island travel broke these laws, Governor Lingle and the Democrat Legislators helped this private company break those laws. Or, as the politicians say, "special legislation" for "fast tracking" with no regard for outer islands comments or concerns. No representation, lotta that going around :roll: . We all know that great sums of money "grease the wheels".

The spin put on the whole thing was/is "progress vs. enviromentalists", when in truth it is simply lawful vs. unlawful, I truly hope all would guard against their knee-jerk reactions and see it for what it is.

You can liken the SuperFerry to someone putting a highway across the island channels with the highway ending in your neighborhood, impacting traffic, crime, community activities, specifically in my familys case on Maui, traffic and organized canoe paddling at Kahului Harbor.

Now imagine someone (private company) building that highway, against laws that exist, and the "builders" having at their disposal politicians with a branch of the military with fully automatic weapons to see the "building" through. http://www.savekahuluiharbor.com/reso.php

This scenario happened at Nawiliwili Harbor on the Island of Kaua'i, where the Hawaii SuperFerry was met with protesters in the water who blocked it's arrival. The Governor, knowing of the opposition had called for a unified command of police and Coast Guard to see that the SuperFerry could dock and deliver it's passengers, goods, and vehicals.

Bottom line, a unified command was called to safe guard a private companys profits while operating illegaly, to be fair to the Coast guard -also to protect lives. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_QUPrbp ... re=related

My beef with the whole thing was never about "progress" or such, my beef is with the way progress was forced, by breaking state laws, favoring a corporation with loads of tax dollars, and especially the use of a unified command to see the agenda through.

Money + power + unified command = trouble. Things do go awry. Think economic collapse (man-made disaster) and any might see my concern. The SuperFerry thing happened in my state for "progress", think of the "need" for skirting property rights/other if the government deems it "necessary" to take care of those unprepared for such events. They will have the money, power, and unified command to divy up the resources, your resources.

Out of control police forces and out of control government backing private companies (Fed Reserve, SuperFerry etc.), we're getting it from all sides.


Please forgive the lack of "links", the SuperFerry links seem to dry up faster than any I've seen.

SuperFerry Time Line (to July 07), get distracted by the enviromental angle, OR, follow the money and power. All might find it interesting, "terror" is good business.



July 2001
Timothy Dick, an electrical engineer, founds Hawaii Superferry after seeing large high-speed roll-on/ roll-off catamaran ferries operating between Barcelona, Spain and the Island of Mallorca in the Mediterranean




June 2003
A new ferry terminal opens at Honolulu’s Pier 19. Built with federal funds, the facilities were expected to serve as Superferry’s operational hub


July 2003
Senator Daniel Inouye announced that defense-related initiatives for Hawaii, including the establishment of a Stryker Brigade at Schofield Barracks would receive $482 million in Fiscal Year 2004 ($71.8 million for the Sryker Brigade Combat Team)


Jan 2004
HSF signed an agreement to buy two 350-foot catamarans for its interisland ferry from Austal USA, an Australian company with a unit in Mobile, Alabama (the total amount of the order would be $162 million)




May 2004
Maui Land and Pineapple Company invested $1 million in HSF




June 2004
Grove Farm Company of Kaua’i agreed to buy 50% of Maui Land and Pineapple’s $1 million investment in HSF




June 2004
Hawaii Superferry Inc (HSF) submits application for Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity to Hawaii Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to operate as “a roll-on/ roll-off fast passenger ferry” to carry 866 passengers and 282 cars between the Hawaiian Islands at speeds of up to 35 knots




July 2004
Final Stryker Brigade Environmental Impact Statement Approved by US Army Pacific Commander General Lt General James Campbell; Army plans to begin bringing Strykers to Hawaii




Jan 2005
Kaua’i County Council unanimously passed Resolution 2005-15 requesting an EIS




Jan 2005
HSF CEO John Garibaldi asks state legislators for a $40 million loan for HSF; in the same month a federal loan of $140 million for HSF was approved




Jan 2005
Senate Bill 1785 was introduced requiring HSF to prepare an EIS if passed. The Bill was quashed by the Senate Transportation and Government Operations Committee in the 2006 session




March 2005
The Federal Maritime Administration (MarAd) issued HSF a categorical exclusion exempting the Superferry Project from federal environmental laws



March 2005
John F. Lehman, former Secretary of the Navy and member of the 9/11 commission announces intention to invest an additional $58m equity capital through his private equity firm, J.F. Lehman & Company (the firm primarily invests in marine and aerospace defense projects); with Lehman’s expertise, the HSF planned to operate a Westpac Express, essentially to carry military equipment and ferry vehicles from Oahu to the Big Island on a daily basis.


March 2005
Hawaii Sierra Club, Maui Tomorrow and the Kahului Harbor Coalition filed a request for an injunction in the Maui Circuit Court in an effort to force the State to prepare and EIS before using Kahului Harbor for the Superferry; the request was filed because DOT was expected to enter into an operating agreement with the Superferry on or before April but be exempted from an environmental review which would be required by Hawaii Revised Statutes Chapter 343




March 2005



The Maui County Council approved a resolution that urged an environmental impact statement on the proposed Hawaii Superferry




March 2005
John F Lehman was appointed a member of the Hawaii Superferry Board



April 2005
John F Lehman states that there is going to be regular usage of the Superferry by platoons of Stryker vehicles




May 2005
HSF submitted its Whale Avoidance Policy to the Hawaiian Islands Humpback Whale National Marine Sanctuary Advisory Council; the Advisory Council voted to support the policy




Aug 2005
In response to MarAd’s categorical exclusion, a lawsuit requesting an EIS was filed in US District Court on behalf of the three environmental groups and Friends of Haleakala National Park




Sept 2005
Maui EIS lawsuit dismissed by US District Judge Helen Gillmore




Nov 2005
The US Congress gave final passage to an appropriations bill that contained $7.5 million for Hawaii and Alaska to improve ferry infrastructure. In Hawaii, the money would make it easier to provide harbor facilities for Hawaii Superferry. The money came in a bill sponsored by Senator Daniel Inouye which contained more than $44 million in funds for infrastructure projects.
Senator Daniel Inouye AKA the "one armed bandit" recently voted yes for the $700 Billion bailout.



Nov 2005
Minneapolis equity private equity firm Northwest Equity Partners joined a team of investors in HSF Holding Inc, the parent company of the high-speed ferry provider in Hawaii.




Dec 2005
John F. Lehman is named as Chairman of the Superferry’s Board of Directors (as of July 2006, Lehman had invest $71 million into the HSF project, making him HSF’s largest private investor; 5 of the other 11 directors on the Board have ties with J.F. Lehman & Company





Jan 2006
Maui Tomorrow Foundation, the Kahului Harbor Coalition and the Friends of Haleakala National Park filed a legal challenge over the final environmental assessment for Kahului Harbor, claiming that no provisions were made to control alien species and little attend was paid to the role of the proposed Hawaii Superferry




Apr 2006
Terry O’Halloran, a member of the Hawaiian Islands Humpback Whale National Marine Sanctuary Advisory Council, was appointed as Director of Public Affairs of HSF




June 2006
Maui County Council Chairman Riki Hokama introduced a resolution calling for HSF to postpone the start of operations at Kahului Harbor until an update of the Harbor Master Plan and an EIS have been completed




June 2006
Armored Stryker Force vehicles start to arrive in Hawaii from General Dynamics Land Systems




July 2006
Maui County Council adopted a resolution asking country attorneys to join a lawsuit against the state DOT that questioned the adequacy of its Environmental Review of planned Kahului harbor improvements




Aug 2006
Second Circuit Judge Joel August ruled against the three Maui groups that were challenging the adequacy of an Environment Assessment for the Kahului Harbor on the grounds that they did not have standing to sue




Sept 2006
The People for the Preservation Kaua’i seek to present a petition containing 6000 signatures requesting and EIS to Governor Lingle but she does not receive the petition




Oct 2006
In response to a challenge from three Hawaiian groups, represented by public interest law firm Earthjustice, a federal court in San Francisco found that the Army had violated the National Environmental Policy Act when it did not consider all alternatives in its decision to install the Stryker Brigade in the Hawaiian Islands




Oct 2006
Judge Joel August reconsidered his ruling against the three Maui environmental groups on the grounds that it appeared that the state might be planning changes at Kahului Harbor without doing a required environmental review.




Oct 2006
The Big Island County Council called for a delay in the launch of the HSF until the State and the HSF did more to address concerns about the economic, social and environmental impacts of the project.




Oct 2006
A federal appeals court ruled that the Army violated environmental law by not properly considering alternatives to Hawaii for its Stryker Brigade; the Army is ordered to study other options




Nov 2006
Jeff Walter, the state manager of the Hawaiian Islands Humpback Whale National Marine Sanctuary suggested that discussions should begin to create speed zones and other regulations to protect the whales




Dec 2006
Judge Joel August ruled that two of the three Maui groups seeking to challenge the state’s environmental statement for improvements at Kahului Harbor did have standing (Maui Tomorrow – traffic; Kahului Harbor Coalition – recreational use of the harbor) did have standing to claim and allowed them to proceed with the lawsuit joined by Maui County lawsuit; August urged the groups to negotiate as the ferry launch was only months away.




Jan 2007
Four Hawaii State Senators propose a bill for an act to require environmental impact statements for the Hawaii Superferry project




Jan 2007
First Hawaii Superferry craft launched for Austal USA in Mobile Alabama




Jan 2007
Princess Cruise Lines paid $750,000 to settle charges that it failed to operate one of its ships in a slow, safe manner near Glacier Bay Park where a humpback whale was found dead of massive skull fractures. Part of the fine was for not reporting the incident.




July 2007
Superferry set to commence operations.


Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
User avatar
FWiedner
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8862
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: North Texas

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by FWiedner »

The purpose of the military is to combat the enemies of the state, and the purpose of law enforcement is to police the People. When the military is used for police purposes, it is inevitable that the People will be considered enemies of the state.

Beware.

:|
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
JohndeFresno
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4559
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by JohndeFresno »

45Jack wrote:The Constitution may not be perfect, but it's better than what we're using now.
That is just TOO GOOD not to use, with your permission, as part of my byline!
bunklocoempire
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Big Island

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by bunklocoempire »

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/03/army.unit/index.html

"We need a lot more in our toolbox in order to deal with angry people on the street," said Col. Barry Johnson of U.S. Army North.

Angry about the two party bail out perhaps? :x

The active-duty military has long had units capable of handling chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or other domestic emergencies, such as hurricanes, Johnson said. But they were assigned as needed. Now they will have a unit that knows in advance that it might be called upon to respond in a domestic emergency.

"We don't have the luxury to wish these things away. We have to imagine the unimaginable," Johnson said.


Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
JohndeFresno
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4559
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by JohndeFresno »

Wait until that Irish fellow gets elected - the troops will have a lot to do on the domestic front.
Idahoser

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by Idahoser »

The one that starts O' is Irish? Mc is Scottish I think.

Either way, I don't think we're at that level yet, but you're certainly setting the stage for a tragedy.
JohndeFresno
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4559
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by JohndeFresno »

Idahoser wrote:The one that starts O' is Irish? Mc is Scottish I think.

Either way, I don't think we're at that level yet, but you're certainly setting the stage for a tragedy.
Perzactly - brother O'Bama - it must be Irish, right? McCain is indeed a Scottish name.

Forget Hannity or O'Reilly, who don't touch on the subject, except for perhaps a passing comment - just open your favorite gun magazine and chances are you will see a full page add describing how O'Bama will remove all handguns from your house if he gets elected.

I am not part of the lunatic fringe, but I sincerely believe that there will be big trouble in the streets when the gun grabs start - there are indeed a lot of angry folks out there who are already primed for serious mischief.
User avatar
BruceB
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:27 am
Location: So Cal

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by BruceB »

Idahoser wrote:The one that starts O' is Irish? Mc is Scottish I think.

Either way, I don't think we're at that level yet, but you're certainly setting the stage for a tragedy.
O' is Irish as is "Mc". "Mac" is Scottish. Both "Mc" and "Mac" mean "son of".
GOD SAVE THE UNITED STATES!

Original member of Leverguns.com forum

NRA Life Member

Boy, what a mess them .45's make.

When seconds mean life or death, the police are only minutes away.
JohndeFresno
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4559
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by JohndeFresno »

Per Bruce B:
O' is Irish as is "Mc". "Mac" is Scottish. Both "Mc" and "Mac" mean "son of".

It's confusing, Bruce. I looked up the name "McCain" with reference to the Presidential candidate, and the info source said that his name is Scottish. I'm not sure that the Mc/Mac thing is totally reliable (or consistent) as a clan identifier; a boyhood friend was named McReynolds, and his family proudly claimed a Scottish heritage, complete with a coat of arms.
User avatar
Old Ironsights
Posting leader...
Posts: 15084
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:27 am
Location: Waiting for the Collapse
Contact:

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by Old Ironsights »

kirkwood wrote:I've lived through civil anarchy here in the US and I doubt that too many others on this forum can say the same. My rights and the rights of every other citizen in the area affected by Hurricane Katrina was totally trashed by the local and state police agencies. Police officers from out of state came uninvited into the area, some wearing non-descript uniforms and no identification, and became vigilantes doling out their own form of justice. They disarmed citizens and then looted and left. To this day, I have no trust in any police officer in this area. These are the people who grabbed citizens out of their homes, beat them, and threw them into makeshift jails with no due process. If you don't beleive it, check with the NRA who documented scores of complaints - and many more cases went unreported.

Only after the National Guard arrived were our constitional rights respected and protected, if not fully restored. Whereas the typial police tactic was to draw on citizens or harrass them in their homes, the National Guard came in and immediately began protecting the citizens from the out of control police forces. Maybe it came across in the main stream media in the rest of the country that the Guard was here to quell looters and such, but really they were here to quell the out of control police state that had formed in this lawless vacuum.
You are correct. Only after the NATIONAL GUARD - i.e. NOT an ACTIVE DUTY COMBAT INFANTRY BRIGADE - got there did things turn around.

Big, BIG BIG difference.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
JohndeFresno
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4559
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm

Re: POLITICS: Um... NO. Can you say Posse Comitatus?

Post by JohndeFresno »

Speaking as a conscientious, honest, restrained and Christian peace officer of over 30 years, I am indeed deeply ashamed of the thugs who wore a badge and deprived the Louisiana residents of their rights and abused their authority, including the California cops (was it Highway Patrol?) who agreed to follow the unethical, unlawful and immoral orders of the corrupt and leftist mayor of New Orleans in disarming honest citizens without due process or just cause.

I hasten to mention that NRA has produced a video disc of these instances, including the actual live filming of an 80 year old lady who stated that she just has a handgun for self-defense, who was then literally thrown and pinned into a corner of her house by a couple of these fascist lawbreakers in blue, may they reap what they so richly deserve.

I have to reiterate here that most peace officers are not like this, and I am surprised that the New Orleans Police Force commanders didn't just tell the Mayor to step aside and ignore his outrageous order to disarm the citizens. I, for one, will never respect or trust the New Orleans Police Department for the rest of my life, which is a sad thing to say for a dedicated career peace officer. But it is my prayer that, on behalf of those who were victimized by their abuse - or total neglect - that you will find it in your heart not to cover all lawmen with this blanket of blame. Most cops who I know have joined up because they really want to do something that makes their communities better places to live in.

In return, they have the pleasure of enduring instant hatred of large segments of our society, face daily targeting and second-guessing by our predominantly liberal anti-establishment press, and are constantly held to a very high standard for pay that is not commensurate with the exposure and alienation that they and their wives and children are expected to endure. Then, of course, there is an element of danger that they face in their jobs. And then the average citizen cannot understand why cops frequently fall into the mentality that their fellow officers are the only ones who care - it's them against the world. Duhhh! - ride with a cop for a week and you will figure out why they feel that way.

I recall that I gave up eating out at a fast food place on my lunch break, when in uniform, because at least once a week some fine citizen would walk up to my table (thinking that he owns me), say something to me like, "Hi - it's a nice day, isn't it, officer?" - and then find a way to complain to me about some "unfair" ticket or other rebuff received from a fellow officer - as if I really wanted to hear that on my lunch break. Maybe twice in my 30 years have I had my lunch break interrupted by a citizen who just wanted to thank me for what I was doing (although I quit taking lunch breaks in public pretty early on, as I said).

The only high risk jobs that are so underpaid versus the risks involved are police work and serving in the Armed Forces (may God bless them, every one). Name another high risk job, and the pay is high. Yet cops get paid too much, yells the couch potato whose only contribution to society is that he pays taxes, if he isn't a professional welfare recipient, and then only grudgingly.

Thank you for enduring my stint on the soapbox.
Post Reply