need some reloading technical expertise .....

[new pig hunter]

OK, this is a training lesson for me. I do not reload, but am very curious about a couple of definitions.

First, the cartridge of particular interest is the .45 Long Colt. I bought a couple of boxes of PMC ammo, PMC part number 45HA. Written on the box is: "45 Colt P+P, 300-gr Hornady JSP bullet."
On the side of the box is the following ballistic data: "1,250 fps muzzle velocity .... 1,041 ft-lb muzzle energy."

SO, the question is: what does "P+P" mean ?? Obviously, I realize it is something of a hot load, but does +P mean something special other than just more powder ??

Thanks Much,

Carl

p.s. I bought it for pig hunting but, alas, here in Kali we can't use leaded ammo anymore.

[Andrew]

Well, from what I can tell the "+P" is the higher pressure loads and "P+P" is supposedly higher pressure but I believe, IIRC, that SAMMI doesn't recognise the "P+P" rating as load.

[Hillbillygunsmith]

That is very "HOT" 45 long colt ammo. It is not intended for use in Colt single actions or clones. Can be used in the Ruger pistols that are stronger. A 300 gr. bullet at 1250 fps is very close to 44 mag in velocity and pressure.

RELH

[meanc]

what does "P+P" mean ??

For me, that means don't use it in any revolver that doesn't have Blackhawk or Redhawk in the name.

It'll be fine in any Marlin or Winchester.

[jd45]

IMO, it's a typo error. It should have read +P+.........that's the way the other calibers' super-hot loadings read, such as 9MM, & .357MAG. Long ago my cop-cousin got me some 110GR .357+P+ Sky Marshall ammo. It shot WAY low in my S&W 65 fixed-sight revolver. In fact, I've never seen "such-&-such a caliber" P+P before, not to say they're not out there....this one is, but like I say, I think it's a printing error. Just my 2 cents, you understand. It's definately a hot loading, tho. jd45

[1886]

I agree, are you certain it does not read +P+ If so it means....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpressure_ammunition. http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satell ... Colt+Loads 1886.

[kimwcook]

The 45 Long Colt designation is actually a misnomer, it's 45 Colt. The Long part of the name was used when 45 Scholfield rounds were also available. It was to distinguish the longer Colt round from the shorter Schofield. It was never officially adopted other than being used by ammunition companies.

[piller]

The Speer Manual 13th edition lists nothing that hot for use in anything but the Contender. I have used a duplicate of that load in my blackhawk, and it has a rather stout recoil, but the accuracy out of my 4 5/8th inch barrel is great. I think Paco has some loads listed on this site which are even stouter. He has used those loads in a model 92 clone, if I remember correctly, and was pretty pleased with the results. I'll agree that your box of ammo shouldn't be used in something like a Colt or a clone as they might not be strong enough to handle it.

[CowboyTutt]

The 45 Long Colt designation is actually a misnomer, it's 45 Colt. The Long part of the name was used when 45 Scholfield rounds were also available. It was to distinguish the longer Colt round from the shorter Schofield. It was never officially adopted other than being used by ammunition companies.

Bzzzzzz, uh, no, thanks for playing! From Jim T's article that also quotes John Taffin's book on Sixguns:

The debate over whether there is a .45 "Long" Colt cartridge is an on-going one that has been active for probably 75 years. Elmer Keith alluded to the arguments many years ago when he wrote "...Some newcomers to the game claim there is no such animal, but if they had shot the short variety that Remington turned out in such profusion before, during and after World War I they would see there was some basis in referring to the .45 Colt as the .45 Long..." (Sixguns, page 285)

As far as I know there have never been any .45 Colt cartridges headstamped "Long" and though I have reports of old cartridge boxes marked "45 Long" I have never personally seen any. Mr. Keith referred to them from time to time as "long" Colt's (with a small "L"). If you have ever seen the short Colt .45's you can understand why.

The Winchester .45 Colt's that Paco and I have came from Shootist Keith Owlett who gave them to us a short time before he passed on. The cartridge box is deteriorated and I have it put away now - at least what's left of it. But it is plainly marked ".45 Colt Government". The headstamp on the cartridges is ".45 Colt" ...BUT these are SHORT .45 Colts! The headstamp is the same as the longer .45 Colts, even down to the "W" on the primers.



These are not S&W or Schofield cartridges. The rim diameter is the same as the long .45 Colts, which is smaller than the Schofield rim diameter. These are true .45 Short Colts. The cartridge is listed in Cartridges of the World on page 306 as ".45 Colt - .45 Colt Government".

I can visualize someone walking into a hardware store around the turn of the last century and asking for a box of .45 Colt's. As the clerk pulls down a box the customer says, "Not the short ones. I want the Long Colts!" and the name ".45 Long Colt" came down to us as a "user-applied" name, not a factory name.

While I can't prove it, I believe the usage was common since Colt had factory cartridges like the .32 Short Colt, .32 Long Colt, .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .41 Short Colt and the .41 Long Colt.

I pulled one of the .45 shorts apart and weighed and measured it. The case is 1.1" long. The powder charge was black powder, approximately 28 grains. The bullet weighed right at 230 gr. and was lubed with a white chalky-looking substance. I fired one from my Ruger 7 1/2" barreled .45 and it went through the chronograph at near 750 fps.

The following week I went out in the hills and called up a nice large coyote and shot him with the .45 short. He ran to within 10 feet of me, responding to the call. I pulled the gun up and shot, hitting him up through the right shoulder and spine, dropping him instantly. The little pointy bullet did not damage the pelt at all. I was able to tan the hide and make a nice looking wall hanging from it.

He was probably the last critter on earth ever killed with a short .45 Colt!

-Tutt

[CowboyTutt]

A +P+ loading is not suitable for even a Ruger Blackhawk. It may handle it OK that one time, even many times, but I would certainly not make a habit of it! Stick to +P loads only, or loads marked Ruger only. A contender could probably handle it fine, but don't quote me on it. If you want something with that kind of firepower, just buy something in 454 Casull.

-Tutt

[new pig hunter]

OK, Thanks Much for the info !!!

I shoot the ammo only in my almost-new Winchester Trapper, so I feel safe.

Cheers and Thanks,

Carl