.45-70 Catsneeze...

[Old Ironsights]

Thinking about making some "silent thumpers" for the 1886...

Maybe a 460gr at 700fps out of a 26" barrel?

What would be a clean powder with enough pressure spike to still seal the bore?...

[KCSO]

Why not go with the old gallery load. Seat a .457 round ball down in the case on 4.o grains of Bullseye. This will duplicate the Gallery load of 10 grains of B.P. A waxed felt wad under the ball will keep the bore from leading. Ths load shoots to POA at 50 feet and will shooot through a coon if necessary.

[Old Ironsights]

Why not go with the old gallery load. Seat a .457 round ball down in the case on 4.o grains of Bullseye. This will duplicate the Gallery load of 10 grains of B.P. A waxed felt wad under the ball will keep the bore from leading. Ths load shoots to POA at 50 feet and will shooot through a coon if necessary.

I do coons now with my .357 catsneeze...

This is an academic exercise for a nearly silent 50ft DEER thumper for urban depredation (with permits so you don't have to use a suppressor)...

[nemhed]

Okay OI, I wouldn't have much use for a cat sneeze load in my 45-70 but what is your .357 load? Of course. my 1894c will be doing more than sneezing at deer this weekend.

[Hobie]

Norm Johnson and others have found that heavy bullets for caliber are easier to make quieter than the RB loads. A 500 gr. bullet with a small charge of an appropriate fast powder is the ticket. Longer barrels better. This has the added advantage of giving greater terminal ballistic effect. UNFORTUNATELY, I lost his recipe. Maybe Yancey still has it from the TC-List days.

[Chuck 100 yd]

14 gr. Trail Boss gives about 1100 fps under a 300-350 gr cast bullet and is very low recoil and report yet is super accurate and obtutates the case well. I would back that load down a grain at a time untill it dont obturate well and jack it back up 1/2 gr. That may be just what you are looking for.

[Grizz]

I've used that trail boss load under a 325g cast. Kind of fun waiting for the gong to ding; but not particularly quiet, even out of the buffalo classic 32" barrel.

[1886]

12grs T.B under a 400gr Bear Creek Supply bullet. Clocks 950fps out of a 26" Marlin CB. Very quiet and super accurate. It does penetrate. Regards, 1886.

[Old Ironsights]

Okay OI, I wouldn't have much use for a cat sneeze load in my 45-70 but what is your .357 load? Of course. my 1894c will be doing more than sneezing at deer this weekend.

I have a few - all using pure lead:

2gr titegroup under a 180
2gr titegroup under a 156 HP (actually mushrooms a bit)
3gr 4f (or 777) under CoW & a 180

I'm going to work up a 2400 load here in a bit. The titegroup doesn't seal the case to the chamber, so it's kind of smokey.

For the 45-70 I've got the 330gr gould and the 425gr Ranch Dog. I was thinking the Ranch Dog in pure lead (which should actually come out about 440gr) would work well.

[Paul105]

One of Paco's articles -- go all the way to the bottom of the page for the 45-70.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... harges.htm

Paul

[Grizz]

12grs T.B under a 400gr Bear Creek Supply bullet. Clocks 950fps out of a 26" Marlin CB. Very quiet and super accurate. It does penetrate. Regards, 1886.

I shoot a 405g bullet from a .44 redhawk at that velocity, and it penetrates like a 45/70 at "stopping" ranges

[FOTIS]

Cartridge : .45-70 Govt. SAAMI
Bullet : .458, 450, Frontier HP
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.550 inch or 64.77 mm
Barrel Length : 18.5 inch or 469.9 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 24500 psi, or 168 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

80 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
SF-033 fl 95.5 30.1 1.95 1339 90.1 24500 2774 1.689 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x 96.0 28.0 1.81 1311 86.6 24500 2597 1.712 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 99.3 29.7 1.92 1305 85.0 24500 2575 1.714 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 90.3 25.5 1.65 1291 94.3 24500 2355 1.719 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan Sp 7 98.5 32.6 2.11 1290 75.7 24500 2574 1.731 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901 103.0 30.2 1.96 1288 79.1 24500 2571 1.759 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 99.6 33.0 2.14 1283 75.4 24500 2539 1.735 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator 92.5 29.6 1.92 1281 79.7 24500 2496 1.732 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 103.5 31.4 2.04 1279 77.3 24500 2543 1.731 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 100.9 31.8 2.06 1277 74.2 24500 2516 1.745 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 10 91.4 30.2 1.96 1276 77.7 24500 2493 1.734 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 508 91.4 30.2 1.96 1276 77.7 24500 2490 1.735 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 96.4 27.8 1.80 1271 85.9 24500 2372 1.743 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 91.8 30.9 2.00 1268 76.8 24500 2484 1.740 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 90.7 28.9 1.87 1268 78.8 24500 2449 1.739 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 96.5 28.9 1.87 1268 78.8 24500 2449 1.739 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S335 102.5 31.0 2.01 1268 80.5 24500 2421 1.744 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 105.0 32.8 2.12 1268 76.1 24386 2537 1.743 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S321 97.8 32.5 2.11 1268 73.2 24500 2502 1.750 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 96.6 32.0 2.07 1267 75.1 24500 2448 1.747 ! Near Maximum !
Kazan Sunar 308W 91.4 27.6 1.79 1263 85.4 24500 2334 1.752 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 105.0 30.3 1.96 1262 77.1 23290 2562 1.766
Hodgdon BL-C2 101.4 34.2 2.21 1260 70.1 24500 2531 1.754 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 96.1 30.2 1.96 1259 79.1 24500 2399 1.747 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 105.0 33.4 2.17 1257 73.3 23269 2549 1.774
Ramshot TAC 97.4 31.5 2.04 1255 72.5 24500 2416 1.749 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 507 98.1 31.6 2.05 1255 72.2 24500 2414 1.750 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 97.2 30.2 1.96 1254 73.0 24500 2401 1.750 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 97.1 32.3 2.09 1253 71.4 24500 2447 1.760 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 102.0 28.8 1.87 1253 82.7 24500 2311 1.752 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 90.7 28.9 1.88 1243 75.5 24500 2305 1.763 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 101.6 32.4 2.10 1240 69.0 24500 2353 1.764 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 105.0 31.3 2.03 1240 72.7 22907 2396 1.799
Alliant Reloder-15 105.0 32.4 2.10 1236 67.2 23578 2396 1.786
Raufoss RA11 105.0 32.4 2.10 1236 67.2 23578 2396 1.786
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 105.0 32.4 2.10 1236 67.2 23578 2396 1.786
Hodgdon Benchmark 95.6 29.1 1.88 1235 75.2 24500 2258 1.772 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 105.0 32.4 2.10 1229 67.6 23059 2395 1.800
Hodgdon H4895 105.0 31.4 2.03 1226 71.7 23961 2296 1.778 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 103.1 30.8 2.00 1225 67.6 24500 2210 1.772 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 104.6 31.4 2.03 1222 67.8 24500 2244 1.774 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 105.0 31.4 2.03 1222 67.8 24500 2244 1.774 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 100.1 33.3 2.16 1220 67.5 24500 2255 1.784 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 101.8 33.5 2.17 1219 64.6 24500 2261 1.785 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 96.8 29.6 1.92 1213 72.1 24500 2160 1.789 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 104.6 31.8 2.06 1213 66.3 24500 2200 1.779 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 95.4 29.4 1.91 1206 71.7 24500 2121 1.796 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 105.0 30.7 1.99 1205 76.4 17844 2599 1.919
IMR 4064 105.0 30.6 1.98 1200 67.4 23138 2184 1.812
Hodgdon H414 105.0 34.5 2.24 1198 59.9 23365 2251 1.818
SNPE Vectan SP 11 105.0 33.5 2.17 1188 63.0 22567 2229 1.842
Hodgdon H380 105.0 33.1 2.15 1187 62.8 22052 2241 1.850
Vihtavuori N140 105.0 31.2 2.02 1166 68.0 21452 2109 1.871
Norma 203 old 105.0 32.8 2.12 1165 64.9 19808 2293 1.912
Somchem S355 105.0 31.7 2.06 1165 65.5 20022 2224 1.910
IMR 4007 SSC 105.0 32.9 2.13 1161 59.1 22408 2058 1.869
Vihtavuori N135 105.0 29.4 1.90 1161 74.3 19229 2221 1.936
Ramshot BigGame 105.0 32.4 2.10 1151 61.1 20702 2110 1.909
Winchester 760 105.0 34.3 2.22 1130 53.4 21329 1982 1.912
Accurate 2700 105.0 33.5 2.17 1129 58.3 22223 1892 1.903
Rottweil R907 105.0 31.8 2.06 1120 57.3 20409 1951 1.943
Vihtavuori N550 105.0 33.1 2.15 1114 56.7 19122 2050 1.973
Accurate 4064 105.0 30.3 1.96 1104 67.3 15417 2233 2.074
Ramshot Hunter 105.0 34.5 2.24 1102 51.9 20049 1881 1.968
Vihtavuori N150 105.0 30.6 1.98 1096 64.2 18112 1974 2.019
Rottweil R903 105.0 31.2 2.02 1092 60.9 17230 2045 2.037
Hodgdon H4350 105.0 32.2 2.09 1074 50.9 19077 1752 2.015
Norma URP 105.0 32.1 2.08 1072 53.8 17938 1858 2.041
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 105.0 32.1 2.08 1071 53.8 17924 1856 2.042
Norma 204 105.0 33.5 2.17 1071 48.6 19722 1708 2.004
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 105.0 32.4 2.10 1036 47.0 17995 1603 2.080
Raufoss RA4 105.0 32.4 2.10 1036 47.0 17995 1603 2.080
Rottweil R904 105.0 32.0 2.07 1028 47.4 17972 1569 2.085
IMR 4350 105.0 31.1 2.01 1025 47.7 17299 1593 2.102
ADI AR 2209 105.0 32.2 2.09 1017 44.6 17624 1516 2.109
Alliant Reloder-19 105.0 32.4 2.10 1015 45.2 16891 1552 2.130
Somchem S365 105.0 32.2 2.09 1008 49.3 15970 1635 2.163
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 105.0 32.4 2.10 1004 44.7 16570 1515 2.151
Somchem S385 105.0 32.8 2.12 962 44.3 14878 1491 2.246
Accurate 4350 105.0 31.0 2.01 960 47.0 13924 1596 2.295
Hodgdon H4831 SC 105.0 32.8 2.12 957 39.8 16116 1330 2.219
ADI AR 2213 105.0 32.8 2.12 950 37.8 15923 1308 2.232
Vihtavuori N160 105.0 31.1 2.01 950 43.3 15020 1322 2.262
IMR 4831 105.0 31.1 2.01 948 44.8 13879 1447 2.300
IMR 7828 SSC 105.0 33.3 2.16 941 36.4 15857 1274 2.257
Norma MRP 105.0 33.8 2.19 937 37.4 14722 1359 2.298
Vihtavuori N560 105.0 33.1 2.15 934 36.0 14735 1308 2.299
Alliant Reloder-22 105.0 32.8 2.12 933 38.1 14388 1336 2.316
Raufoss RA15 105.0 32.8 2.12 933 38.1 14388 1336 2.316
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 105.0 32.8 2.12 933 38.1 14388 1336 2.316
Hodgdon H4831 105.0 31.5 2.04 920 38.3 14515 1233 2.316
Rottweil R905 105.0 32.2 2.09 912 36.8 14133 1242 2.352
Winchester WXR 105.0 32.1 2.08 910 37.1 13492 1270 2.380
Vihtavuori N165 105.0 32.1 2.08 907 40.2 13869 1233 2.357
Accurate MAGPRO 105.0 34.5 2.23 891 32.4 13906 1188 2.385
IMR 7828 105.0 31.5 2.04 890 34.5 13708 1144 2.397
Alliant Reloder-25 105.0 32.2 2.09 869 34.9 12599 1137 2.476
ADI AP 2214 105.0 33.7 2.18 859 31.8 13904 1036 2.441
SNPE Vectan SP 12 105.0 34.6 2.24 834 29.4 13161 1010 2.506
PB Clermont PCL 517 105.0 34.6 2.24 832 29.2 13112 1004 2.511
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 105.0 34.5 2.24 831 29.2 13061 1003 2.514
Accurate 3100 105.0 30.7 1.99 819 36.4 10593 1107 2.648
Hodgdon H1000 105.0 32.1 2.08 817 30.3 12197 938 2.576
Norma MRP 2 105.0 32.4 2.10 808 29.2 11113 982 2.635
Vihtavuori N170 105.0 32.1 2.08 778 28.4 10440 906 2.725
Hodgdon Retumbo 105.0 32.6 2.11 775 27.7 10561 875 2.727
Vihtavuori N570 105.0 34.2 2.22 774 23.5 10985 862 2.708
Vihtavuori 24N41 105.0 34.5 2.24 764 23.4 11366 798 2.719
ADI AR 2218 105.0 34.5 2.24 735 20.9 10703 736 2.826
Hodgdon H870 105.0 33.5 2.17 716 22.0 9393 737 2.951
Hodgdon US 869 105.0 34.5 2.24 715 21.6 9783 715 2.906
Hodgdon 50BMG 105.0 32.9 2.13 714 20.5 9683 705 2.932
SNPE Vectan SP 13 105.0 33.1 2.15 681 21.3 8707 657 3.089
NC A3502 ,test only 105.0 31.7 2.06 666 17.0 9084 522 3.078
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 105.0 33.1 2.15 665 20.1 8434 619 3.147
Accurate 8700 105.0 33.2 2.15 653 19.4 8462 576 3.180
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 105.0 31.7 2.06 649 17.1 8445 520 3.174
Vihtavuori 20N29 105.0 34.9 2.26 639 17.6 8250 561 3.227
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 105.0 31.7 2.06 499 8.9 6085 259 3.968

[Camp Cook]

I have been playing around with reduced/silent 45-70 loads for a few years now.

I shoot them in my 22" barreled T/C Contender 45-70 carbine.

I use cast 450gr RNFP bullets seated into the cases backwards they look like wadcutters when the load is finished.

I settled on Tite-Group powder because I had a lot of it...

I hold the powder into place with a piece of stryofoam use Win LR primers and no crimp.

8grs = 850fps

5grs = 630fps

4grs = 510fps

3.5grs = 465fps

3grs = 400fps

2.5grs = 350fps

2grs = 300fps the hammer hitting is louder than the round firing

With iron sights the 2gr load groups app 1.5" @ 25 yards and will shoot thru a 2" X 4"...

[Old Ironsights]

SWEET. Thanks CC. I actually have titegroup on hand too!

(FWIW the Pistol configuration Contender is exactly the type of gun this load would be perfect for IMO...)

[Sixgun]

I like a 420 soft lead bullet with 4 gr. of Bullseye, all kept in place with Dacron. Don't have my notes handy but I think its about 500 fps. Sounds like a hammer hitting plywood.----------Sixgun

[Scott Young]

i have always had good luck with unique. i start at 10 grains and work down till the bullet sticks and then up half a grain. i will test it at that setting and if there is any sticking then i up it alittle again. every rifle is different so test yours.

[Whit Spurzon]

Camp Cook, How much of a difference in the sights is there between the reduced loads and your full power hunting load.

I have a reduced load for my 30-30 that shoots very close to the zero I have for my full power jacketed load out to 50 yards. It is nice to have a rifle load to take a grouse with when out hunting big game.