Remington Ammo - Personal Experience

[86er]

I had 20 boxes of Remington Core Lokt 175 grain, 7mm Remington Magnum ammunition that I purchased around 1995 (for use in a BLR).
There were about 2 of boxes left of the original purchase. I fired a round and felt like I got hit in the face with sand. Upon inspection of the case, the primer had blown off. Not the whole thing coming out of the pocket, just the flat base of the primer. I sent live and fired samples from this box to Remington. I specifically asked how long their ammunition shelf life is, what could cause the problem and I asked for any comments about the situation. I received two responses but they had their wires crossed. First they said "throw it away" and 2 days later another letter said "send it back". Anyway, here are the letters for your information, word for work including their spelling:

Dear Sir:
We have reviewed the three rounds of Remington R7mm3 ammunition that you returned recently. The issue was caused by corrosion that occured around the primer pocket and primer. This corrosion may weaken the thin primer cup metal and fail under the pressure when fired. We did not receive the packing code stamped on the box. This code will give us the date of manufacture and the lot number. We do not warranty ammunition that has been out of our care for over 10 years. Normally, ammunition will last indefinitley if it is stored properly, but there was something different in this instance. We do work hard to provide quality products to all our customers. In our centerfire product line, powder charging is automatically checked on each round. Ballistic audits are also done frequently, checking powder weights and performing shooting tests. For safety reasons you should dispose of the rounds from the box these rounds were packed with. We appreciate you choosing Remington products and hope you will in the future.
SIncerely,
Bill Conrad
Product Service

I FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS AND THREW AWAY THE REMAINING AMMUNTION. TODAY I GOT THIS LETTER:

Dear Sir:
We are sorry to hear about the problems you encountered wtih our Remington 7MM Mag ammunition that you had purchased. We would like for you to send the remainder of the 20 boxes back, so that we can test the product here at our plant. Please place the ammunition in a cardboard carton and place some packing material around the product to protect it, remove the Receipt sticker (tracking number) from the top of the FedEx label and keep it for your records incase the package should become lost in transit. Attach the FedEx and ORM-D labels to your package. You can take your package to any FedEx drop-off location or you will find instructions on the back of the FedEx label to call or e-mail for home package pick-up. Our address is pre-printed on the label. Remington is billed for the shipping cost when the product is delivered to our plant. We are very interested in hearing our customers comments, negative or positive and appreciate you taking the time to respond. If you have any questions you can reach me at 1-800-243-9700 and ask to be transferred to Steve at the Lonoke Ammunition plant Product Services.
Sincerely,
Steve Buckingham
Product Services

OH WELL ....

[Old Savage]

Remington should buy the ammo back.

[El Chivo]

maybe they want to make sure you don't shoot it up.

10 years shelf life sounds fair to me. Maybe they need to start putting expiration dates on the boxes.

[Tycer]

Interesting. I've got and shot ammo older than me without incidence. Some of the lead has lead oxide on it - shoot it outdoors and upwind... None of it is 7mm remmag pressure.

[kirkwood]

How did you "throw it away"?

[Sixgun]

86er,
Like most of us who have been in the game a long time, I do not expect a company to admit any wrongdoing when it comes to a potentially dangerous situation.

Get yourself a good magnifying glass and inspect it yourself. Pull a bullet, decap it and look real good in the primer pocket for any corrosion. My guess it will look good, especially as you live in a dry climate---besides, its brass, and unless you deliberately painted some acid or something else on it, it should be fine.

Remington's (Marlin too) quality control has got like many other companies today---get as much product out as possible and if only an "X" amount comes back, we will call it success.------------Sixgun

Send it all back and get replacement coupons for that and a few more boxes for your aggravation.

[Hobie]

I hope you pulled the bullets, dumped the powder and saved the brass for reloading...

[Modoc ED]

They wanted it back so that you can't use it to prove their negligence if any and to keep you from using it to show others the possible faults of Remington ammo.

Hobie hit it on the nail. Pull the bullets, dump the powder, and save the brass for reloading.

[6pt-sika]

In the last two months I have fired some old Remington ammo !

The first were some 2 7/8" 10 gauge shells ! I had both plastic hulls that I remmember my grandfather purchasing in the late 60's and the other were Remington paper hulls that he already had before he purchased the box of plastic hulled shells . Anyway all these went of just fine . The plastic hulled shells had to be at least 40 years old and the paper hulled shells were probably another 10 or 15 years at least !

I have also been shooting up a case of Remington plastic hull 20 gauge loads that were manufactured in the mid to late 60's with no problems here either . These were not my grandfathers but from another place .

Not Remington ammo . I've been shooting a bunch of 30 Carbine ammo my grandfather and father acquired back in the early 60's . I think this was Korean War surplus . So I am "assuming this stuff to be at least 50 years old .

By no means to advocate shooting up all the old ammo one may have as some may very well be collector type stuff ! However you can only keep so much of this stuff . And what I've been shooting up does not fall into that category in my opinion.

[Rusty]

Well all I know is that Remington did give me good customer service. My son had a box of .270 Win rounds that he had purchased at our local hardware store. When we opened the box we found that it contained .30-06 ammo.

Remington sent us a pre-paid shipping label and after they got the ammo they sent us a new box of .270's. It did make me open the box of any ammo I buy from now on though.

[John in MS]

"Get yourself a good magnifying glass and inspect it yourself. Pull a bullet, decap it and look real good in the primer pocket for any corrosion. My guess it will look good, especially as you live in a dry climate---besides, its brass, and unless you deliberately painted some acid or something else on it, it should be fine."

I've seen this before. While shooting on a local range, a fellow had a big puff of smoke come out of the action of his bolt-action centerfire. I walked over to see what was going on; he was not a reloader, and was pretty puzzled. I asked to see the case, and the case head was scorched/blackened by gas going around the primer. I explained it was defective, looked at his other fired brass, and saw that several others had problems, but not as bad.

It was Remington factory ammo, which he had dated when he purchased it. At the time, it was about 17 years old. I looked carefully at the primers, and could see green corrosion creeping out of the primer pockets in the gap between the edge of the primers and the primer pocket wall. Then I looked at the bullets, and on some, I saw rings of heavy green corrosion built up around the bullets where the case mouths ended!!

We agreed the ammo was a lost cause, and he gave them to me to pull down and dispose of safely. When pulling the bullets, I was startled to see very heavy, green corrosion all over the base/lower parts of the jacket, leading up to the case mouth.

I've also seen this happen with an expensive, imported, extruded powder that was improperly stored in a shed for about 7 years, exposed to changes in temperature as the seasons changed. Ammo loaded with this powder, using new, unfired brass, began showing corrosion on the bases of the bullets within just a few months of loading, and heavy corrosion just a year after being loaded. Some loaded a couple of years previously with the same powder lot (again in new, unfired brass) showed very spectacular corrosion buildup on the bullet bases, although none had gone around the primers.

In the case of the Remington factory ammo, it's my guess that the powder was improperly manufactured, and acid residuals caused the corrosion. In the case of the handloaded powder, I believe that improper storage caused the powder to prematurely break down. Interestingly, other lots/brands of powder stored in the same shed, some for much longer periods of time, did NOT show the same deterioration/corrosion. So, it appears that individual lots of powder vary in this respect. I've pulled bullets from military ammunition headstamped as old as 1913 - 1918, and seen no evidence of corrosion or powder deterioration. Also, pulling a couple of 50-year old Winchester .30-30 Silvertips revealed perfect, bright bullet bases/case interiors that looked as though they'd been made yesterday. High-quality, modern ammunition can indeed remain good almost indefinitely when stored properly, but don't assume ALL ammo/powder will last, even when stored in an ideal climate-controlled location. Be alert to the possibility of powder deterioriation, particularly if the ammo/powder is stored where temperatures vary greatly.

Like others here, I've noticed a definite QC decline in several of the popular manufacturer's brass and loaded ammo. It now appears routine to get bulk Winchester brass with folds/splits in the neck/shoulder area, sometimes up to 6% in .348 brass I have bought. I've seen it in .300 Win Short Magnum brass, .22-250, .223, .348 and probably some others I can't think of right now. Winchester brass used to be very high quality (by US standards), but now I actively avoid it if I can. I have not had good luck with the accuracy of Remington factory centerfire ammo I've tried over the years, and I mentally crossed it off my "possible purchases" list when I saw the corrosion inside the factory ammo. I also got a batch of Remington 7 & 1/2 BR primers that had thin or defective cups. Out of any given number of rounds fired, some would develop pinhole leaks at the edge where the cup folds over to form the side wall adjoining the primer face. Gas jetting out of these pinholes left my bolt looking like the surface of the moon. I also don't buy 7 & 1/2 BR primers any more...


Hope this helps,
John

[45-70marlin]

I bet most of the ammo today is made overseas. not a good thing.

[AJMD429]

I bet most of the ammo today is made overseas. not a good thing.

+1 on that - they KNOW a customer can't ever take them to court...

[Ysabel Kid]

Companies like that get stuck in the ol' rock and a hard place real quick. They never are sure who is out there genuinely looking for information and help, and who is looking for an opportunity to sue them silly. Chalk up another one for our litigous society - a cost people just don't consider.

Sounds like a defect, and bottom line Joe, I'm just glad you are okay. A failure with a 7mm Magnum could have been real bad!