Compare Win 92 & 94 in 44mag

[bsaride]

Looking at a Winchester 94AE in 44 mag.

Are there any reasons NOT to get it?

I think the 94 is a 30-30 size action and the 92 a pistol cartridge size action.

Is there a long throw on the 94 lever?
Is there a short throw conversion?

OK, guys, how about some input.

Thanks,
Jay

[Jaguarundi]

92 has a shorter throw.You are correct in that John Browning's 94 was designed for 30-30 length cartridges and his 92 for pistol length cartridges.In my opinion a modern alloyed steel heat treated 92 clone is far stronger than a non bigbore 94.The AE suffers from the safety and rebounding hammer for my tastes.The 92 is the slickest of actions in the winnie clan.The AE 94 in 44 mag may suffer from parts shortage in the near future.Just my two cents.

[J Miller]

Looking at a Winchester 94AE in 44 mag.

Are there any reasons NOT to get it?
No.

I think the 94 is a 30-30 size action and the 92 a pistol cartridge size action.
You are right except when they started the AE models they redesigned the action specifically to handle the shorter pistol length cartridges. The 30-30s and that length are set up a bit different inside.

Is there a long throw on the 94 lever?
Yes, on the 30-30s and that length actions. The actions for the short pistol length cartridges have a shortened lever throw.

Is there a short throw conversion?
Not that I am aware of. It's not really needed.

OK, guys, how about some input.
Input ... OK. I've had my 85 vintage 94AE Trapper for 23 years. It has digested every type and shape of bullet I've fed it. It will function with ammo as long as 1.75". It is NOT finicky in the least. The longer action is very forgiving of every thing except short stroking the lever.
The 92 actions are length critical. They can be adjusted to handle somewhat longer cartridges if you want. And once done seem to work just fine.
The 94s receiver is only about 3/4" longer than the 92's, an insignificant amount in my opinion.
The 94AE models can be fitted with a scope very easily ... gag ... if you want. The 92s not so easy. Both will have to be drilled and tapped if you prefer a side mount receiver sight. However Williams makes a FP and 5D model that mounts using the rear scope mount holes.

Both will get the job done. You just have to decide which you like best.

Thanks,
Jay

Joe

[J Miller]

92 has a shorter throw.You are correct in that John Browning's 94 was designed for 30-30 length cartridges and his 92 for pistol length cartridges.In my opinion a modern alloyed steel heat treated 92 clone is far stronger than a non bigbore 94.The AE suffers from the safety and rebounding hammer for my tastes.The 92 is the slickest of actions in the winnie clan.The AE 94 in 44 mag may suffer from parts shortage in the near future.Just my two cents.

I agree with you about the action and safeties .... yuck.
The isn't much difference in parts between the 30-30s and the 44 Mags. And in over 3000 rounds my 94AE hasn't broken or worn out a single action part. Considering you can still get parts for the older top eject 94s in .44 Mag, and that Browning / Winchester still stocks them, I doubt you'll ever have a parts problem.

Joe

[Lastmohecken]

I have an older pre-safety angle eject 94 trapper in 44mag and a post safety 94 trapper in .357, in which I have removed the crossbolt safety. Both guns have been very reliable and seem to happily digest about everything I have tried in them, including semi-wadcutter handloads. The 44mag shoots light cowboy power loads accurately enough, but never really liked my favorite heavy loads, that I have used in my 44mag handguns for years, the barrel on my 44 trapper is a little light, and thin walled and I think it hurts the accuracy.

My .357 trapper seems to be quite accurate with about any load, and very pleasant to shoot.

I also have a Browning 92 in 44 mag, in which about all I have shot through it is MagTech factory loads, but it feeds these slick as butter, and is quite accurate for what it is with the factory iron sights. I highly recomend it.

I used to own two different Rosi 92's and I was very unhappy with both of those jamming, rough actioned guns, however, they did seem to shoot fairly accurately. I also once had a like new Marlin 1894 in 44 mag, it was pretty accurate, but I soon lost any desire to keep it, because it was a jammer.

The Browning 92 is my hands down favorite, in 44mag.

[86er]

I have a 94AE in 45 Colt that I have been 100% satisfied with. It will shoot 335gr cast - something I couldn't get a 92 to do (althought it may have been that one gun). If it appeals to you and is a good deal, you should get it.

[Griff]

Ok, you heard from the "life is grand,I can have a pistol cartridge in a 94 Winchester crowd"; now a dose of reality:

Looking at a Winchester 94AE in 44 mag. I, personally wouldn't waste much time looking

Are there any reasons NOT to get it? Several, a few based on your intended use. Which, if it's cowboy ction shooting, run, don't walk outta there. Hunting? Well why lug around EXTRA steel that serves no purpose except space, when you can have a 92 that's trimmer, stronger and oh so much smoother!

I think the 94 is a 30-30 size action and the 92 a pistol cartridge size action.Yep, 'nough said!

Is there a long throw on the 94 lever?
Is there a short throw conversion?Nope, 'cause the only likely customers would be CAS competitors and almost every other levergun on the market is better suited. (Sole exception being the Henry "Big Boy")

That's my sugar-coated, family viewable opinion; my honest opinion is a mite rough, but... I hope you enjoy your new Mdl '92!

[J Miller]

Ok, you heard from the "life is grand,I can have a pistol cartridge in a 94 Winchester crowd"; now a dose of reality:

Looking at a Winchester 94AE in 44 mag. I, personally wouldn't waste much time looking

Are there any reasons NOT to get it? Several, a few based on your intended use. Which, if it's cowboy ction shooting, run, don't walk outta there. Hunting? Well why lug around EXTRA steel that serves no purpose except space, when you can have a 92 that's trimmer, stronger and oh so much smoother!

I think the 94 is a 30-30 size action and the 92 a pistol cartridge size action.Yep, 'nough said!

Is there a long throw on the 94 lever?
Is there a short throw conversion?Nope, 'cause the only likely customers would be CAS competitors and almost every other levergun on the market is better suited. (Sole exception being the Henry "Big Boy")

That's my sugar-coated, family viewable opinion; my honest opinion is a mite rough, but... I hope you enjoy your new Mdl '92!

Wow!

Well Griff I guess you're saying those of us who have used our 94AEs in pistol calibers are living in a fantasy world? Or we're stupid or what? I think owning one for 23 years and having shot over 3K rounds though it without problems or malfunctions is proven reality.
The cas games IS NOT the only shooting sport in town. And it's not the only use for lever action rifles chambered for pistol calibers.


Oh, by the way I'm supposed to remind you to swing by and drop off some bullets next time your through this area.

"We may not always agree on everything, but we can always be friends."


Joe

[Griff]

Nope, Joe, I ain't sayin' anything agin those that choose 'em. T'weren't nuttin' personal meant. I just happen to think that CAS competition is a severe test of a gun's ruggedness & reliability. My analogy would be that the '92 action would be Carl Lewis, compred to the Winchester 94's Walter Brennan!

Yep, we may disagree, but I consider you a friend. Thanks for the reminder... I'll be home tomorrow and will try to remember at least that!

[bsaride]

Well I happen to like Walter Brennan, in fact here is his pic.

pix44203375.jpg

"I believe what we have here is a failure to communicate."

I fould this by doing a google search. In fact the shop had
it in it's inventory list that I found. it was listed as Win 94
pistol grip. I knew it was a Legacy, I know how much profit
the guy is making too. This was fired 6 times, so is used.
I was looking for a pistol gripped 44 mag, got this'n for $800.
I had trouble finding the auction by searches and didn't until
he sent me a link. Unless I win the lottery, it's going to
lay-a-way (last two months have been light/lite in the cash
department).

[J Miller]

Nope, Joe, I ain't sayin' anything agin those that choose 'em. T'weren't nuttin' personal meant. I just happen to think that CAS competition is a severe test of a gun's ruggedness & reliability. My analogy would be that the '92 action would be Carl Lewis, compred to the Winchester 94's Walter Brennan!

Yep, we may disagree, but I consider you a friend. Thanks for the reminder... I'll be home tomorrow and will try to remember at least that!

OK, I guess I'm a bit touchy today. Woke up with a screaming sinus headache ... again.

CAS competition is not only a severe test of a gun, it's actually abuse. None of them were ever designed for that type of use. I suspect that a rifle used in CAS competition will see more abuse in a month than most of the rifles made in the 1870s through the early 1900s did in their entire lives. So we do agree on that.

Carl Lewis, was a boxer ... right? Walter Brennan was a toothless old guy who usually packed a grudge and a sawed off 12 gauge ..... um, you wanna reconsider that analogy ?

Joe

[jd45]

I just prefer the '92 because of its smoothness of the operation, not to mention it can withstand about 10,000psi more pressure. I'm talkin about modern manufactured rifles. jd45

[J Miller]

I just prefer the '92 because of its smoothness of the operation, not to mention it can withstand about 10,000psi more pressure. I'm talkin about modern manufactured rifles. jd45

Jd,

Did I bring my 94AE Trapper when we met last April? I don't remember bringing it, just the Marlin.
Other than one hitch when the locking bolt drops and the hammer falls a bit farther forward than the pre rebounding action hammers do it's not bad at all. Remind me next time and I'll bring it. We can send more lead down range through it.

Joe

[bbleverfan]

i am a big fan of the ae winchesters regaurdless of what cal.

[jd45]

Yes you did Joe. It's a sweet little rifle. If you bring it to Ottawa next month we can play with it some more. jd45

[Griff]

Carl Lewis, was a boxer ... right? Walter Brennan was a toothless old guy who usually packed a grudge and a sawed off 12 gauge ..... um, you wanna reconsider that analogy ?
Joe

Joe Louis was the boxer...; Carl Lewis is the former multi-sport Olympian; and yep, Walter Brennan was an old guy with a significant hitch in his "git-along"! So... my analogy stands.

(And I think we both know I have a significant soft spot for the Winchester 94 -with 29 of 'em- yet, I do recognize where I think they have a problem).

[20cows]

29 of 'em-

Wow!

I thought I had plenty (4) till now. I need more receivers.

[blackhawk44]

Sorry, I only use levers I can operate from the shoulder and that leaves out every double-jointed Winchester 94 I've tried in 45 years.

[jd45]

blackhawk44, That's a point I mentioned in another thread a while back.........the fact that I, with my short arms, can cycle the action on a '92 for a follow-up shot without taking it out of my shoulder, or my eyes off the sights.....one of the reasons I love it. jd45

[gak]

Both fine guns. I'd agree with the others however that, given the choice, the 92 always. Unlike the one gent's bad Rossi experience, mine has been fine with some 1/2 dozen pre-safety models over the years (Interarms and EMF). Also have the Browning in .44. Stellar piece I will not soon part with, but that doesn't diminish the "value" of the Rossi - especially at 1/2 or less the price.

[Pete44ru]

The Model 92 was a reduced-size version of John Browning's first repeating rifle, the Model 86 - I would presume JMB's first choice.

JMB developed the Model 94 later, under pressure from Winchester, for longer cartridges then just coming into being/vogue - definitely not a first choice.

I think I'd stay with the inventor's first design choice.

"Flame ON"

.

[Griff]

JMB developed the Model 94 later, under pressure from Winchester, for longer cartridges then just coming into being/vogue...

I don't know about "under pressure", but I read somewhere than there was a huge (for the times) bonus for him to have it done quickly... and there were two parameters given; IIRC, action had to be slimmer than the '86, in conjunction with the cartridges for which it was designed and no more than 1-¼ times the length of the cartridge... or some such. Personally, I think he succeeded well beyond Winchester's expectations. It was only when the "modern" Winchester wanted to chamber handgun rounds in it that they screwed it up.

And, yes, you can work the lever with the buttstock still at the shoulder, but the curved buttplates help, those flat steel and plastic ones slip and slide, making it more work.

[AJD]

My understanding was that TG Bennet of Winchester couldn't wait to get what would be the 1892.

My understanding of the story is that Bennet told JMB that sight unseen anything he could get to production in 60 days he would pay him $15,000. If he could get it in 30 days he would give JMB $20,000. JMB countered saying that if he could get it to him in less than 30 days he wanted $25,000 and anything past 30 days and it was free. Three weeks later Bennet had the 1892.

[shdwlkr]

Well I can tell you that I like the original 92's as I have 1 1/2 of them and will have a new make 92 if a little while and have several model 94's in 30-30 in different barrel lengths and prefer the long barreled ones.
I have had one 94 in 357 mag that was a real pain in the butt. It wouldn't cycle well, it would jam most of the time and so I traded it for an 1886 which I am very pleased with.
Never had a model 94 in 44 mag and don't see any reason to have one. That's just me and some would never have some that I do that is why they have so many different firearms because one size doesn't fit all.
good luck with what ever you get.