The legacy of an 1886 Winchester

[geobru]

A week or so I posted pictures of the repair I made on my 86 and jmiller asked if I would post before and after pics of the entire rifle.

Before doing that, I am going to retell the story behind this rifle. in 1929, when my dad was 16, he was at an auction and this rifle was on the block. It is an 1886 Winchester, vintage 1887, 40-82 caliber. The bid was $1.25 and he thought it must be worth at least that, so he bid and wound up getting it for $1.50. The auctioneer took his money and said "here kid, use it for a crowbar." He never shot that gun, and only ever saw one box of shells for it, but at $15.00, it was too rich for his blood. It sat in his closet for years, and I probably worked it more than anyone else because I would sneak in and work the action and wonder what it would be like to shoot.

After he passed on, I got the gun, and I had this itch that had to be scratched. I really wanted to shoot that old gun, but it was not in pristine condition. The rear sight that was on it was one that my dad had taken off a Remington Model 24, 22. In my search for a sight, I showed the gun to several different folks who were knowledgable, and to a man, they, said the receiver is pitted, so it isn't a collector grade, but it should make a decent shooter. The stock was soaked in oil and was just caked black with it. Years ago, I got enough of the oil off so you could at least see some grain in the wood, but there was no real finish on the gun.

After trying different means of cleaning up the receiver, I finally decided to polish it. I used stones to work the pits out, then polished it on a wheel. This might sound pretty brutal to many on this quorum, but my reasoning was this: I have no intention of ever selling the gun. If I leave it in a pitted condition, in 100 years, it will still be pitted. If I clean it up, in 100 years, it will look like someone did something to it a long time ago. Besides that, I hadn't found this forum yet, and didn't know anyone to ask. Anyway, I started polishing the receiver. It isn't where I want it yet because I reassembled the gun prior to our last move so I wouldn't lose any parts, and there is still some work that could be done, but I kind of like it the way it is. One of these days when I am feeling pretty flush, I might have it case hardened. I don't have any pictures of the receiver before I worked it over, suffice to say that it had a brown patina and a million pits over almost all of the flat surfaces on both sides of the receiver.

I started shooting the gun almost 2 years ago now, and have had a lot of fun working up loads that will work. Hope you all enjoy the pictoral essay.

Before

After

Before

After

Before

After

After polishing

After polishing

And Finally:

[Gun Smith]

You did just the right thing! I say Shoot em, that's what they were meant to do. There are plenty of "Safe Queens" out there for the collectors. I only buy "shooters" myself, since I can't stand owning a gun I can't shoot once in a while. My only exception is a pre 64 Winchester M. 94 that is a 99.99% gun, but it's still had 20 put through it so far.

[KirkD]

Enjoyed this post. That old '86 is a great memento of your father. What he didn't get to do, you are doing .... shooting that old '86. Pretty hard to find a decent original '86 nowdays for just $1.50.

[Jaguarundi]

Shoot and enjoy !

[J Miller]

That must be a labor of love.

If it were mine, and these are just my thoughts, after I finished with the polishing I think I'd find a gunsmith that would simply reblue it with no further polishing. That way you could say ..... "I did it."

Because of the family history that old Winchester is worth more than money.

Joe

[geobru]

Because of the family history that old Winchester is worth more than money.

Well said J. I could never put a price on it and will most likely pass it on to a grandchild that will appreciate it for what it is and not for the few dollars its sale would generate.

[dbateman]

excellent story geobru really like hat you did with your dads old 86

[kimwcook]

Excellent story. You'll be shooting that baby for a long time.

[Bartman]

Great story and pics mate thanks. I feel the same about an old IverJohnson Champion 12ga shotgun that my Grandfathers Father gave to him when he was 15 back in the 30s it cost 12/6 which was the equivelant of $1.50. I have it now, an Uncle gave it to me recently and I just cleaned it up and occasionally use it for hunting bunnies, every gouge and scratch is all part of the appeal of it and the repairs were done by Granddad, as it was a tool they relied on for survival and filling the larder back in the good ole days. It could not be replaced and will only ever be handed down by me to another family member, cheers.
Bartman Down Under.

[Mike D.]

That is really a nice story, something that many old lever rifles undoubtedly share. Too bad that we will never know "the rest of the story" on most of them. Yours has a real "legacy".

[Pete44ru]

Wow - It looks like you've gone and at least doubled your dad's money !

I'd leave it just the way you've got it now - it looks just great to these eyes, fer sure !

Nice work !
.

[Sixgun]

Looks great and nice story--In my opinion, NOTHING quite equals an fine '86. In fact, I'll go as far to say nothing begins to stir the soul like an '86, except maybe a fine 1st gen. Colt SAA.

The receiver looks fine ..............but..........if you wanted to add a bit of "age" on it, just let the receiver rust up a bit (before it starts to pit) and rub it off with steel wool and water. Do this several times and she will look nice. A bit of mild acid will quicken up the rusting process.----------Sixgun

[Rusty]

So Sixgun, what you are saying is brown the receiver. I agree it would make it look nice.
Heck it looks nice like it is.

The story along is worth 10 times what your dad payed for it. At least you know the story to pass it down and keep in the family.

[C. Cash]

That is really neat...the story, the gun and how you have put it back into action. Congratulations!

[rangerider7]

+ brown the receiver. Finger prints alone will rust the receiver the way it is. Just my two cents.

[gamekeeper]

That is really neat...the story, the gun and how you have put it back into action. Congratulations!

+1 well said.

[slabsides]

I debated adding my story. Bear with me, and remember, I was a dumb kid. Excuse the
length of this, there are lots of details that have to be included for it to make sense.
When my Dad died I was ten. A 'friend' had an old gun of his, and I was promised it
would be returned to me 'sometime'. Three years later, I finally got it. Now, here is
the good/sad part. It was an 1886 deluxe, half magazine, nickel steel barrel, .45-90.
It had a Lyman long range tangent sight (the kind with the gib lever on the side of the
action) and beautiful checkering on very nice wood. I was allowed to posess it on the
understanding that I would NEVER shoot it.
Naturally I wanted to have some cartridges for it, so I took it to the town gunshop/gun-
smith, and showed it to him proudly. More sad/bad here: he told me it was a worthless old
gun that no one made cartridges for any more, and that I should throw it away, or he'd
buy it for parts. Yes, that old play. I didn't sell. But I spent hundreds of hours polishing and
dry firing that old lever gun. One day the front of the firing pin fell out while I was 'prac-
ticing for my safari'. One winter night when I was 16, I decided to take it apart. I didn't
have any idea how to do it, and had no tools. The gun, half disassembled, sat in a closet
and in a box under the bed for another 7 years while I busted my hump getting a poor man's
education that DIDN'T include shooting. I still thought the gun was worthless. The night before
I went off to the Service, I stuck the stock in a drawer, and dumped all the metal in the trash.
(Kick me, here) Four years later, out of the Service and interested in shooting, I began to
learn stuff. I discovered the 'gunsmith's' stupidity/perfidy too late to do anything to him, thank
goodness...he'd died in the meantime and the shop was no more.
I hope someone rescued the corpse of my Dad's '86 from the trash can where I left it, and put it
back together. I hope somewhere, it's still someone's proud posession. I regret it isn't mine.
Please remember, I was a DUMB and IGNORANT kid, with no one to advise me. I've done some
advising since...always for the benefit of others, never for myself. It's a way to pay back.

[Old Savage]

Very good.

[Pathfinder09]

What a great story and a fine job on the rifle.

I have a similar story. My Dad passed away when I was 2 yrs old, (I'm 58 now). My mother kept his guns for me and i have them now. Among the guns was an original 1873 Winchester in .38-40. The gun is packed in cosmoline and has been for over 55 years, the dust cover over the receiver is missing and the rear gun stock was not the one for the gun. I had it looked at awhile back by some guinsmiths that know the old winchesters. They said it was in good shape and should shoot fine. I have taken it into my head that I'm going to restore it to the best of my ability and shoot it, then han it down to my son. I've got some reproduction Browning/UARAC Winchesters but this one is the real deal. I hope I have as goog success as geobru has. So that is my story. More to follow as I work on the gun.

It is wonderful see folks here redoing and shooting the old guns. I love lever guns and have seven of them. Three were my Dad's.

When ever I go to the range and shoot there is always someone that comes over and compliments me on the guns and tell how much they like them.

Life just doesn't get better than that.

[brucew44guns]

I think most guys with a few guns have to admit they did something they regret. Either they sold the "perfect gun" in order to buy another one. Or, they didn't buy the "perfect gun" when they had a chance to get it cheap, or some other horror story of equal pain in their heart.

My dad bought a 1936 long tang deluxe model 71, in 1945. The rifle was from a family member of the late archer Howard Hill, and was virtually like brand new. Unfortunately, they had put a Weaver 330 scope, mounted on the side. The blueing and wood were very nice, and I'm sure the scope mounts could have been removed and just left the gun alone. Perhaps a couple tiny screws could have filled the 2 holes, and would have not torn up my mind too much just living with it as is.

I was given the gun in 1962, but OH NO!!, I wanted it perfect. I had those 2 holes welded back up, but the new blueing never quite covered properly the side of the reciever where the weld metal is. It's not horrible, but noticeable. It does not hinder the rifle from taking down a very large elk however, and since dad has died recently, it's plain to me that no one will own that gun until after my death. I just wish it was original.

You have the blessing of owning a rifle, that was bought for a pittance, and in a somewhat rare caliber. And the fact your father left it for you is awesome.

[Ysabel Kid]

Pretty hard to find a decent original '86 nowdays for just $1.50.

Yep - they go for a thousand times that - or more!

Great post!!!

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

One of the neatest things about my job is the great family gun history's I have been apart of. Several times I have had the privilege to be a part of the restoration a family heirloom. One of the neatest was this 1889 Marlin.



This gun has come home after 3 generations. Grandfather, father, and grandson. The grandson sent it to me to after he managed to get it back after 50 something years of being out of the family's possession. The grandfather let father his son use it as a youth in the 30's deperssion era. But when the waterwell went bad the grandfather had to trade it to the waterwell driller to help pay for the new well. Long story short, 50 years later the grandson managed to get it back from the waterwell drillers family and ask me to make it shoot again. Not a true restoration, mre like a rebuild. The bore was rotten so it got a reline. It was reblued but hot salt instead of rust blue, the lever, hammer, trigger,forend cap and crescent butplate was sent to Doug Turnbull for color-case. The wood was de-oiled and tru-oiled. The grandfather has been gone for sometime but when the grandson presented it to his dad, he said dad teared up. I feel really honored to be a part of that.

[geobru]

Some really great stories have emreged as a result of this post. It is nice to know that I am not the only one who cherishes a great old gun that has been handed down through the generations. The trek with my 86 isn't over yet. I like the idea of browning the receiver rather than bluing it. I'll keep you all in the loop as it evolves. Thanks for the great comments and posts.

[shdwlkr]

Great job on the 86 and yes you do need to do something to keep those finger prints from rusting it but do what seems right to you.
I have none from my dad as he sold all of his before I was born as my mom hated them. Mine will most likely go to a grandson maybe one of my sons or daughters if they want them and I know it before I die otherwise they are going to who I choose. I have a dear friend and his son would like a couple of mine as he has asked his dad if he might get them and he just might. My wife's daughters husband might get a few also as he likes them but doesn't have the money to buy any so a few might go his way.
I would really like them to be shot as they where made to be shot not left in the closet or worse chopped up for scrap metal.
I don't know if we will be able to pass on our firearms or not as it seems eveyone thinks they are evil. Wonder how evil they are if they save the life of a loved one or a neighbor or yourself.
I finally got myself a miroku winchester 1886 and am very pleased with even if it does have lawyer attachments that one day just might disappear. I would love to have an original 86 in firing condition but my pockets aren't the flush with cash and most likely never will be.

[Mike D.]

Shdwlkr, you ponied up the bucks for a Miroku, didn't you? For just a few bucks more you could've scored an original '86. You won't get a pristine "collector" gun, but a decent shooter. I have picked them up, in the last couple of years, for as little as $700.

[shdwlkr]

Mike
I got my miroku for less that a grand and in unfired condition so I am not to upset with the price and here you don't see any originals for $700 unless they are really used

[Les Staley]

Okay, guys, here's my 1886 story.. My grandpa was born in 1882 in Northern Michigan.. sometime before the turn of the century his older brother Frank, was killed , shot by his hunting partner with a 44 lever gun with no half-cock safety (my guess is a 1873).. Great uncle Frank had a 1886 45-90 in his hands when he died. Great grandma made my grandpa wait till he was 18 before he could take the 45-90, so he got it around 1900. It stayed my grandpa's , and I was able to use it to hunt with , killing my first deer in 1961 when I was fourteen.. My cousin ended up with it after grandpa's death in 1976. Now his son has it, and I recently learned that it is in Wyoming with my second cousin, now a medical doctor, last I heard he was in Sheridan.. should look him up.. Les

[Mike D.]

Mike
I got my miroku for less that a grand and in unfired condition so I am not to upset with the price and here you don't see any originals for $700 unless they are really used

I rest my case. Nice condition, except for the worn wood. Well used, but cared for, and an excellent bore. $700, April 2007. It happens.

[shdwlkr]

Mike
I don't see them like that around here and if I did I would most likely be poorer then I am now. I have my eye on another Miroku 1886 that is a little more expensive then the one I have but that is what is available so just might jump in but might not haven't held it yet. Funny thing for me is that when I pick up a lever action rifle it either feels right or it doesn't and if if doesn't it goes back on the rack.
I have a miroku model 92 that I am paying for right now and hope to bring it home next month.

[Mike D.]

Not a thing wrong with those Mirokus, I have three of them. A few yrs back, CDNN Investments had them for $599, so I jumped on 'em. One is already a FM, no safety, Browning hammer and trigger.

[shdwlkr]

Mike
I hope to get mine to that state one day but for now I am just getting more when I can while I can. Winchester and browning at least got one thing right and that was a very good company to make copies.
I have never seen a model 92 like the one I am paying on it has a 24 inch barrel and looks almost new. I have wondered if the former owner traded it in on one of those black guns that I wouldn't have in my house.
I am a throw back to the old days when rifles came with long barrels and you learned how to carry them.

[Mike D.]

My Winchester desires runs a bit contrary to most collectors. They want the pre-1899 "antique' guns, but I much prefer the later, post-1900, rifles with shorter, nickel steel barrels. Give me a 22" barreled 1886 rifle in any caliber but .33, .45-70 or .45-90 and I'll be happy as pig in s**t. So far, I have multiples of those calibers, and one in .38-56. I still "need" .40-82 and .50 EX.

[shdwlkr]

Mike
I have a nickel steel barrel 30-30 that no one wanted as they didn't know what kind of barrel it was so I got it for around 450. It has the 26 inch octagon barrel and is around 95 years young and still shoots just fine.
Here in the desert most of the levers you see are 30-30, 25-35 25-20, 32-20 as that is what most ranchers used here as the biggest game is elk and if they hunted them with a lever it is still in the family being used. Most of the rifles I have seen here that are of the old lever action flavor start at almost 2000 for something worth buying and sometimes even a wall hanger will go 2000 and up because folks don't know what they have in there hands besides it is a winchester 1886. I saw a guy buy an 86 that was just plain junk don't even think you could use the action to build a new one on and this guy paid I think 1500 for it and after he left the clerks where laughing. The only way he made out was if he knew the history on that rifle and in that case he got out of there at a cheap price. Yes I have seen family come in and sell/trade a rifle and as soon as they where gone before the clerk could even take it off the counter they had there hands on it and just asked how much. Saw the owner watch what was going on one time and when the clerk started to take the rifle back the owner stepped in and quoted a price without even looking at what they had in it and tell the clerk to write it up and no sales tax as the owner was paying that. After the customer left and I was interested in another lever the owner asked me if I had watched the deal and I said yes didn't know why didn't care why but I could tell that lever meant a lot to the person who got it and the owner said he knew where the lever came from and who the new buyer was and that it was one of the first sales he had when he opened his store almost 50 years earlier and that the person who bought it was the second person to ever fire that rifle and the family had kept from him out of spite and he had told the new owner he thought they where going to be in the store that day selling a lot of firearms and if he was there is was his for this price what ever that was and that was what was going on. I thanked him for filling in some of the blanks and he said that sometimes it is more than the money gotten that makes a good deal and he sold me the rifle I had in my hands for 150 less then the tag said just cause I understood things. You don't see the owner on the floor very often but when you do you know that something special is being bought, sold or traded as he does all the really special deals himself. Lately there is a store manger that has been doing more and more and I wonder if it is some of the family of the owner or just a good friend as he does rule the store and seems to understand what is in every firearm without having to ask any one.

They have kind of figured out what I will and won't buy now that I have spent close to 10 there in the last few years so they don't even show me something that is not up with what I have bought in the past and if I do pick up a real iffy lever they usually bring another around from some place and show me it and take the iffy one and it just disappears. I have a lever action 30-30 early 1900's with a parkerized finish that no one wanted and I got it for a fair price and it shoots great had to find a Marbles twin blade elevator for the back sight that cost me 10 shipped to my door and now I have to go back out and see what it will do with the back sight working.
I would love to find some good 86's that I can still find brass for and are safe to shoot at a good price but I will just have to settle on the Miroku's that keep turning up like one a year at my local shop at a fair price. There are others that show up for lots more then I would pay or could afford but I just have so many dollars to spend.
I have seen a lot of the gun safe queens, the high priced high grade versions that I don't know why anyone would want. Saw one in 1886 long barrel that was close to 3500 with all the engraving and gold on it but who would dare take that thing out and shoot it for fear of it being stolen.
I would like to find one 86 with a 26 inch octagon barrel just to compare it to my miroku's with 22 inch barrels. Don't really think there is much difference but it would be nice to know for my self that this was the case.