30-30 and APP?

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:44 pm

I tried some 3f American Pioneer Powder in the 30-30 this afternoon.
The accuracy at 35 yds was pretty sorry.
Has anybody tried this stuff in the 30-30? If so were you able to achieve anything worthwhile?

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:54 pm

I have never shot BP or BP substitutes in the .30-30 BUT I have read many accounts of people who did and none of them were satisfactory.

Tommy Reb · Post by **Tommy Reb** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:59 pm

I use APP in a 58 cal. 1861 Richmond Carbine and a 44 cal. 1st model Colt Dragoon. Works very well in both with modest fouling, good accuracy, easier clean up and plenty of smoke. However, I've only use "white" powder in my 30-30.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:02 pm

I've shot some bp loads that work fair in the 30-30, but would be better in a single shot. 40 grs of 3f express, with my 180 gr cast bullet shot pretty fair, but the fouling in the throat made chambering a round pretty dicey after the 3rd shot.

I was given 2 cans of this fakey stuff, the APP 3f, and a can of 2f Jim Shockey's gold. Trying to figure something to do with it.
So far its sort of like gettin a kiss from your Aunt Agnes, its alright, but it ain't the real thing. Lots of smoke, more of a crack than a boom , and it don't smell anything like bp afterburn.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:12 pm

Oh man! The only reason I shoot black is for that wonderfull smell.
My wife really complains when I scrub my brass in the kitchen sink.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:33 pm

In general, I find APP about as worthless a propellent as straight Farina in ANY gun.

I do keep some around for testing repairs to my flinter though. If I can get a Pan Flash with APP I know my Rock & Frizzen are mated properly.

Plus it doesn't smell up the basement.

But I've never found it to be consistent or accurate in anything - cartridge or muzzy.

(I tried some .357s... may as well have been shooting my 410 with .36 buckshot...)

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:16 pm

Outside of skirting around ATFE explosive regs, I can't see any advantage to this fakey stuff. It still corrodes cases, so not saving anything there.
It cost about twice what a pound of Goex does, so there's no savings to speak of.

Guess I might try some in the 45 colt. If I can't make it shoot in that ,

wonder what it'ld do for Shorty's rose garden?

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:26 am

Don,
A few years ago I tried some APP in the .30-30. Groups @ 50 yards ran around 2"..... not great, but not terrible with the 311041. I found that with APP, large pistol primers seemed to give the edge in accuracy. Velocities ran around 1,300 f.p.s. with a slightly compressed charge.

It will work better in the .45 Colt. At least that has been my experience.

w30wcf

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:31 am

Thanks John. Was wondering about trying different thickness of wads , maybe that'ld help.
Might try some in the 405 just for kicks and giggles.
Heck the stuff didn't cost me anything might as well see what I can do with it.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:58 am

I,m no expert but the thing with BP or the subs is having a bullet with enough lube and the right lube. There needs to be alot more lube than most 308 lead bullets provide and the lube has to of natural oils/fats or non mineral oil based. The twist is a little fast too. In saying that though I am sure they would be pleasant to shoot if you got it to work

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:12 pm

As you may know, the .30WCF was never a BP round and loading bottleneck cases w/BP is a pretty tricky proposition. You must get enough lube AND your bullet CANNOT extend below the neck. This will also include any wad or "grease cookie" to aid in lubricizing the fouling.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:55 pm

Like I said before I did get 40grs 3f goex to work pretty fair with my cast bullet. Its a 311291 with the gas check step milled out, making it a solid base and leaving a small lube ring there. Probably with good fiber wads, in single shot would work real well, allowing for wiping between shots.

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:00 pm

You can always make cheap firecrackers with it...

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:53 am

Or one big one!