OT - My Other Hobby

[Bruce]

Here is what I collect when the gun cabinet is full and there is no hunting season. Most of these were found within the last 12 months. Most of them were found on my hunt club. We hunt the roads, the newly timbered areas and the newly plowed areas.



The top four are Hernandos. The bottom three are Bolen Bevels which are rare.



A mixture of Waccissa's and Arrendondo's.



Scrapers, tools and drills.

[Ysabel Kid]

Very, very cool!

[Sixgun]

Bruce,
I am very impressed at your collection! It amazing that these are found in the amounts that they are found, considering there were not "millions" of Indians roaming around everywhere. Also, I bet the Indian usually tried to find his spent arrow as arrowheads were not made in a minute.

Thanks for posting. I really enjoyed the pics. Even though I live in the heart of the Lenni-Lenape Indian lands, I have found the grand total of 1 (one) arrowhead in my lifetime and that had a broken tip.---------------Sixgun

[morgan in nm]

Love the collection. Here in NM, they have made it illegal to hunt for arrowheads but before that, my dad was always looking for them and never found one. He went out with a friend one time who also hunted arrowheads and the friend found one right at my dad's feet.

[Modoc ED]

Even though you find an arrow head here in CA, there is no proving that it is an original/old arrow head. We have plenty of Obsidian in CA and there are knappers that make arrow heads, spear points, etc. and then salt an area so as to bring in tourist, show them an arrow head here and there and then charge them to hunt for arrow heads, etc..

[Rusty]

How can they outlaw hunting for arrow heads? If you're out walking and you pick one up you're a felon? I could understand not allowing people to excavate for them but wouldn't that be a hit or miss way to do it anyway? Kids used to find them all the time walking behind the plows while dad plowed the fields. I had a cousin that was always on hand when his grand dad plowed the bottom by the creek. He always came home with something.

[Bruce]

Sixgun,

There are a lot of theories about the amount of points out there. Consider that the Native Americans had over 10,000 years to leave these laying around. It has been "speculated" that they would not pick up a point that missed it's target. There is a book about Desoto's travels (non fiction) that the name escapes me right now and I can not find mine. This book indicates there were alot lot more Indians than we think and they were organized.

Morgan,

One of the most misunderstood laws out there and one of the most misstated is about artifacts and collecting. As a rule, collecting on state or federal lands is not allowed, but collecting on private lands is. Digging is never allowed when the area (spot) is a burial mound, but usually is not prohibited on private property on middens (camps) or sites. I have a very strong law enforcement background on this issue and advise you to check with "informed" authorities to verify your areas laws. Your local Game Warden is usually the most informed/educated, but not always. If they give you quick "NO" answers, they probably do not know what they are talking about. The older guys/gals usally have more of a background with the issue. Collecting from waterways is another issue and varies from state to state.


Modoc,

Faking points is a major problem everywhere. A trained eye can pick one out fairly quickly, but some are tricky. If they are laying around in an abundance on undisturbed ground, there is reason to be suspicious.


Just as a point of interest, there are very few arrowheads in this picture. Most are spear or atalatal points, knives or tools. The bow/arrow was a fairly new invention before white men arrived. What is usually referred to as "Bird Points" is the true arrowheads - real small. As a Rule - the finer made points are "usually" the older points.

[creosote]

My late Brother and I had many fine hours hunting points in Utah and California when we were not hunting the muzzle loader deer season.
At several locations we found only broken points, and they were real "heart breakers"
We concluded that due to the nature of the locations,they were natural ambush points and that a miss would result in a broken point on the rocky terrain.
My favorite memory is of being in a very remote location that most folks would never dream of going. We were really into some obsidian and my brother came strolling back to camp and said he had "found a button" I asked him what kind of button and he replied "the kind the Yankee soldiers wore on Their blue coats"
It was a pre 1860`s infantry button, and one of the very few metallic objects in the area, it was just laying on the obsidian debris. The nearest old fort was sixty miles away.
Creosote

[GabbyHaze]

Very Nice Collection.

My wife and I have gotten into Gold Panning. It's a lot of fun, but nothing we'll get rich on. LOL

JT

[Bruce]

JT,

I understand the not getting rich part. If I am not deer/hog hunting, I am looking for points. I am in the woods every day since I retired. I do not sell my points, but there are some in those pictures that are worth a "LOT" of money.

Creosote,

We do not have very much in the way of Civil War era artifacts, but I do know of one Florida site that has not yet been published. I found out about it through a friend that discovered it and it is probably amazing. I did see some of the artifacts and they appeared to be well preserved, most likely buried in an attempt to conceal them from our Northern opponets.

[JReed]

Cool collection. I used to go with my Dad and Grandpa knocking around old Indian sites and ghost towns In Ca, Az, and Nv. Used to find lots of broken points and tools always fun.

[RIHMFIRE]

very nice collection....
You need to make a fancy display case!

[dr walker]

Nice collection, you must have sharp eyes to spot that many in a year. I manage to find a few every year. Some of your points are truly special.

[winchester1886]

I'de be real careful who I showed them to, out here in Australia the Aboriginals backed by the government would probably come out and take them from you, so the Aboriginals could throw them in the bush again, cause they probably don't give give a rat's bottom about them unless of course you have them.

[GabbyHaze]

JT,

I understand the not getting rich part. If I am not deer/hog hunting, I am looking for points. I am in the woods every day since I retired. I do not sell my points, but there are some in those pictures that are worth a "LOT" of money.

Creosote,

We do not have very much in the way of Civil War era artifacts, but I do know of one Florida site that has not yet been published. I found out about it through a friend that discovered it and it is probably amazing. I did see some of the artifacts and they appeared to be well preserved, most likely buried in an attempt to conceal them from our Northern opponets.

My wife and I went arrow huntin once when we first moved here. I didn't find any, but she found one. There are lots of them out here ( lots of indian battles took place out here and in Montana ) but I've never looked for them since that day.
We're going camping next weekend and will pan for gold again. We park our truck camper right next to the stream and pan to amuse ourselves. Whether we find gold or not, we still have fun looking for it. We've found a little so far though.

JT

[20cows]

In the last couple of months I have found three pieces that were at least worked, if not completed within 20 feet of the barn door I have gone through every day for twelve years. Rain and wind exposes new rocks.

I am fairly certain these did not originate on my land, but were brought in with the gravel that makes the floor of the barn and the turn-around lot in front of it.

The place is covered in native flint, though, and was just beyond the Comanche frontier for a long time.

I keep looking.

Great collection!

[Bruce]

Jeremy,

If I showed you the pictures of my broken ones, you and I would both cry. My wife takes all of the broken ones and puts them in wooden bowls that are displayed throughout the house. She also puts them in glass lamp bases. If they only I have small piece missing, I manage to keep them with the main collection.

RIHMFIRE,

They are all in various sized display cases. I had to buy more cases Saturday, so I took them all out to organize by like points. Decided to take a picture while I had them out.

Dr Walker,

We are fortunate up here in north Florida to have access to many sites. I have located close to 75 sites that have significant points, preforms and some pottery. Some of the sites were camps/villages, but most are areas were the points were made. There are significant numbers of exposed chert boulders in the area and that is where they got the raw material from. I also have quite a collection of blanks and preforms.

20 Cows,

Just about any dirt road around here has some points on them. This is low country and dirt was hauled in to make some of the roads. The donor dirt usually came from high ground, which usually means some type of site. Also, a lot of the roads follow the old Indian trails. When we get heavy rain or the roads are graded, I go out hunting with high hopes.. When they plow an area to replant pines, I have a ball.

[Buffboy]

My cousin likes to walk the banks of the Missouri River when the bite has dropped off looking for arrowheads. He was told that he couldn't pick one up if he found it(federal land). That is incorrect and I showed him the exception in the Federal Regulations to prove it(I don't think I still have the link but he printed it out to carry with him).

YOU CANNOT MINE for arrowheads on public land or most private land (there are a few exceptions, mostly for incidental, example: a plowed field is exempted) but if you see one on the ground you can pick it up without being in violation of law.

[rjohns94]

very kewl collection.

[Bruce]

Buffboy,

The Feferal rule you refer to is (was) known as the "Carter Law". When Carter became President and found out that he had been breaking federal law by picking up points on federal land, he got the law changed to allow for incidental finds. I was informed a few years back that the law had been changed back to the old way. I did not bother to research to verify as I am no where near any federal lands.

Florida law did allow for incidental finds in waterways until just a few years ago. Some (one really) state politician managed to get that made illegal and there is a big fight going on to have that reversed. On private lands here, you can dig if you want too (I don't) as long as it is not a burial site or mound. Almost all mounds in Florida were burial mounds at one time or another.

I will update this post a little later today with some more finds I made yesterday and this morning.

[Bruce]

My latest finds. Two scrapers, one tang knife that is very unique and one point.

[Blaine]

Very good stuff. I have a very big chunk of obsidian in my rock wall that I want to play with someday when I don't have anything better to do. I've taken a few flakes off, and they indeed are razor sharp.

[JReed]

Jeremy,

If I showed you the pictures of my broken ones, you and I would both cry. My wife takes all of the broken ones and puts them in wooden bowls that are displayed throughout the house. She also puts them in glass lamp bases. If they only I have small piece missing, I manage to keep them with the main collection.

Oh I bet. I used to have a nice collection of knife blades sadly over the years and lots of moves I don't know where they are .

[Mike D.]

Very nice collection, Bruce. I have been collecting artifacts for many years longer than I have Winchesters and still go out several times a year to do so. The "Carter Law" that you alluded to is actually known as the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979. Supposedly because president Carter had an "arrowhead" collection there is a clause written into the ARPA whichs says that "no penalty can be assessed for the act of collecting "arrowheads" from the surface of the ground". This is covered under a couple of subsections of the Act. Here's the catch 22 to this situation. Under the Antiquities Act of 1906, no items of historical, or prehistorical, nature can be removed from public property. This law was originally passed to put a halt to the destructive looting of Native American sites and mounds, particularly in the midwest and southwest. In no way was it mean't to cover surface collection of artifacts and digging of bottles. It has been subverted in the past few years to include these traditional hobbies. I could write volumes on this subject, but will stop here. My experiences with the BLM and "Green Police" are considerable.

Privare ground is another story entirely, IF you have written permission to do so, and are not disturbing burials, then you may do as you wish. Our ranches are full of "Indian' mounds and village sites, but we do not dig where there are known burials. In fact, we can't chisel, rip, or disc anywhere near to these mounds, despite the fact that they were levelled 40 yrs ago. Entire skeletons lie less than 24" suburface. Another recent law, NAGPRA(Native American Graves Protection Act)of 1990, provides for stiff penalties to any person who "knowingly" disturbs the burial of these people. That includes those who are engaged in agricultural practices on their private property. It is getting ugly out there folks.

[KirkD]

Very nice collection. I have a small collection of stone hammerheads my dad and I found on our farm over the years, but we never found a point, in spite of the fact that we picked 10's of thousands of rocks after we cleared the land.

[Bruce]

Well, I had another good morning.

A Levy, a Big Sandy (I think) and a small arrowhead that I have not ID'd yet.







These were found while searching for a new site. I found a new site and walked away from it. My wife wants to go and I did not dare spoil it for her. I feel there will be more tomorrow if you would like to see them.

[mescalero1]

As you can well imagine, I come from an area rich in artifacts, and it can become adversarial at times.
I have a stone axe head, and a medicine man's metate, but I was given those.
At the same time, I know this will confuse some people.

[geobru]

When I was growing up, my family hunted for arrowheads as an activity every weekend except during hunting season. My brother has the collection, but we had thousands of artifacts that we picked up over 25+ years. I remember days on the Columbia River before all the dams were put in when we found 35 perfect pieces in a day, plus two or three times as many broken pieces. There were even a few times when we actually found both pieces of a broken point.

The Coluimbia River tribes really made some beautiful pieces. They used the multi-colored native flint, Oregon obsidian, and every once in a while we'd find one made out of moss agate and other exotic stones. There were some really fine craftsmen with an eye toward beauty.