Ballistic Tips in the 25-35

[Kansas Ed]

OK, I know some of you have been waiting for this review for the last year or so. Just got back from hunting dad's place in MO a couple of hours ago. Rained the whole time we were there, and even though I had bought a couple of tags, this one was the most important. If any of you remember, I had a hard time finding a load that would group well in my 1915 era model 1894 in 25-35. Flat out...it wouldn't shoot the Hornady bullet period! But the load I found that would work was a 115 grain Nosler Ballistic tip using 26.1 grains of IMR-4064. I had added a cannelure and trimmed the plastic point to a FP for use in tube mags. On paper it shot 3 shot groups at 50 yards measuring less than 1". The real kicker was what the bullet would do on game. I'd used these bullets in the 25-06 with spectacular meat destroying results at about 2900 fps...but it decimated everything in it's wake...lost a lot of meat. It was my contention that if I slowed them down to 25-35 velocities the bullet would perform better.

I was sitting at the edge of what we call the "High Line Field" yesterday watching a buck. I completely missed the two does that emerged 40 yards from me until it was too late. They snorted and stomped at me wanting some reaction to which I sat perfectly still. I thought I had missed the chance, when they slipped back into the brush. But the big doe came back at about 60+ yards and tried again to gain my attention. Ah Ha..my old Winchester was up....She was almost quartered towards me at that point...so I put the bead against her right front shoulder and pulled the trigger. At the shot deer went everywhere, one to the left and one to the right. The one on the right, low to the ground and hauling mail, over the embankment. Assuming that I had hit the one that went to the right I followed it down the hill. She had piled up about 30 yards from point of shot. My first thought was that the bullet had performed wonderfully. There was about a 60 caliber entrance hole with no exit hole. Remember...I was positioned so that I would shoot through lengthways....but the skinning told the real story...Field dressing showed the entrance hole, and penetration through both lungs high up, and skimming one tenderloin. To this time I still haven't found the bullet...





When field dressing the doe, and a very large doe for MO I might add....I was initially pleased. Entrance hole showed little issues...but skinning told a very different story....once the skin came off the damage was shocking.

I ended up having to scrap the whole shoulder. I won't use this bullet again for deer. While it did the job admirably for killing results, it just wasted too much meat IMO.

Soooo...the next game plan is to alter either the Nosler Partition, or the Nosler Accubond. But for now anyway the BT Nosler is out of the deer hunting game....oughtaa make a dandy coyote round though...

Ed

[JohndeFresno]

Great account and photos, with very useful information, Ed.

Thanks!

[Jaguarundi]

Excellent report.

[Hobie]

Well, I'll put that one out of my mind! Very interesting though that it performed that way even though it started at only about 2200-2300 fps. Fortunately the 117 gr. Hornady RN works in my Contender.

[cshold]

Makes me curious as to how these would work on a deer.
I have about 4 boxes of these old reloads.
Any idea as to what the ballistics would be out of a 26” barrel
with this load data?

[kimwcook]

Looks like it blows up pretty good alright. Looks like a good bullet for critters you don't intend on eating or using the pelt.

[Kansas Ed]

No clue. I tried some 75 gr bullets up to 29gr of 3031, but my rifle didn't like the loads I tried.

Ed

[Old Savage]

Wonder why it won't shoot the Hornady well. Mine - modern manufacture shoots that and Winchester factory very well.

[Hobie]

Makes me curious as to how these would work on a deer.
I have about 4 boxes of these old reloads.
Any idea as to what the ballistics would be out of a 26” barrel
with this load data?

If that is the 86 gr. bullet as used in the 25-20 (likely at that time) I'd think it would do about 2450-2600 fps (it is hard to say exactly of course). Should be a killer coyote load!

I noticed something with my .25-35. The standard load does 2200-2300 fps. Use the lighter bullets (and you can get down to 60 gr.) such as the 75 gr. VMAX and the POI shifts to a foot or more too high. I had a problem in finding a scope (my .25-35 is a Contender) with enough adjustment range to cover these extremes.

[cshold]

Hobie, the box label looks to me like it says an 87gr. bullet.
They are a pointed soft point bullet.
I will try and get a close up pic. of one tonight.
I may even pull one to see if anyone can identify what brand.

[2ndovc]

Hobie, the box label looks to me like it says an 87gr. bullet.
They are a pointed soft point bullet.
I will try and get a close up pic. of one tonight.
I may even pull one to see if anyone can identify what brand.

If it's a spitzer type bullet (maybe w/ the tip filed down too) it could be a .250 Savage/ .257 Rbts bullet too.

jb

[cshold]

Here is what they look like, I have 4 full boxes of them.
Not looking to bad for being reloaded in 1949.
These are a 1 in the chamber 1 in the tube type bullet in a lever.

[Hobie]

Hobie, the box label looks to me like it says an 87gr. bullet.
They are a pointed soft point bullet.
I will try and get a close up pic. of one tonight.
I may even pull one to see if anyone can identify what brand.

Then that is likely the 87 gr. bullet from the .250 Savage. Velocity would likely be about 400 fps slower than that at which it was designed to start but within the range of operation.

Yep, I misread it.

[John in MS]

Thanks very much for posting this!! Good info -- I was mighty curious as to your
results -- nice of you to follow up with us!

As to bloodshot meat, an older gentleman who had worked in a butcher shop in his
youth taught me to soak bloodshot meat in a sink in cold water with a heavy concentration of baking soda. After a couple hours (more?) it draws the blood out very well, and saves a lot of meat.

Hope this helps,
John

[TedH]

Hmmm, very interesting report. I have some 100 gr. Ballistic Tips loaded for my 257 Roberts that it shoots very well at 2850 fps. I've carried that rifle in the deer woods before but have not taken a deer with it yet. Perhaps I should rethink my bullet choice.

[AJMD429]

Thanks for the post. I don't own anything in .25 caliber but such reports are so useful and I'm sure others really benefitted from it. If I decide to venture in to the .25 realm, I'll probably be looking up this very post as I try to work loads up.

[Kansas Ed]

Ted,
My brother shoots a 257 Bob, and has only ever used partitions in it. He's shot more deer with that round that I could count, and it never does the kind of meat damage that the Ballistic tips do.

Ed

[Pisgah]

A couple of decades + ago, when Ballistic Tips first came out, I tried the 150 gr. bullets in my .30-06. Very accurate, but results on the three or four deer I shot were disturbing. All were killed instantly, at ranges from 50 to 200 yards, but clearly only because I had placed the shots precisely. They seemed to have literally blown up. I then tried loading them in a Spanish Mauser M1916 in .308 at around 2400 fps and in my .30-30 carbine (used as a 2-shooter) at about 2200. Deer shot with these loads at similar ranges showed deep penetration and rapid yet controlled expansion.

I've heard that in intervening years the BT has been toughened up somewhat, but I haven't tried the newer versions. I don't think cutting the tips helped you out here at all. Maybe left alone, and using the rifle as a 2-shooter for magazine safety, these bullets would perform.

[Kansas Ed]

I don't think cutting the tips helped you out here at all. Maybe left alone, and using the rifle as a 2-shooter for magazine safety, these bullets would perform.

You may be right on that, but I'm the type that I hate to have loose cartridges in my pocket. So what ever I use has to be something that I can load the mag full of and go hunting. Like I said, the Partition will likely be next in line, though I probably won't hunt with this rifle again for several years...too many others need tried out in my stable.

Still to try.
2- 1873 Winchesters in 38-40
1-1895 Winchester in .303B
1-1895 Winchester in 40-72

Ed