Give this video a look (on topic)

[adirondakjack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI3OSo4nugo

Here's the rounds he was cycling alternately.
http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy32 ... C04850.jpg

[JReed]

Man he can work a lever. If he was pulling the trigger on those rounds it would sound like a machine gun.

[Terry Murbach]

THAT IS TOO COOL. I AM IMPRESSED. IS THAT YOU, JACK OF THE ADIRONDAKS ???

[Wind]

Here is a link to "Deuce", the fella mentioned in the video. He empties ten rounds out of a Marlin in 1.73 seconds!

http://www.spencerhoglund.com/files/Deu ... e_1.73.wmv

Lever Rifle, 10 shots. Rifle can be on shoulder, hammer down on empty chamber. At
beep begin firing until empty. All ten shots must be on steel at any size and distance.

It might take a few seconds for the video to load. Best regards. Wind

[adirondakjack]

No, that isn't me, it's my friend, Widdowmaker Hill from TN. Him, me and a few select n'er do well folks from around the country have been busy coming up with this new Marlin iteration.

Deuce shoots a "Spur" short stroked Marlin (I have two of those, both VERY short stroked for C45S), and is very quick.

"Widder" isn't real fast with the rifle, his claim to fame is the fastest TWO GUNS alive (world record "gunfighter" two pistols, ten shots, 1.8??? seconds.

The Widderm'aj'ik is a slick, fast levergun to be sure. I'm almost done with one here, and even as slow as I am, I can run 10 through it in 3.1 seconds, and have done JUST 3 seconds with the short stroked rifle. and probobly will do that or better with practice with the Widderm'aj'ic Marlin.

What makes the widderm'aj'ic special is unlike the short stroked Marlin, no handmade carrier is needed, not THAT much labor time, and aside from a one-pice firing pin, no parts to buy. He's publishing the entire process, so any smith who wants to can learn it.

To give ya an idea how smooth it is, I stood the one I'm working on up on a scale, hammer down, and opened the lever, watching the scale deflection. The lever effort is 2.5 lbs. A stock Marlin would likely lift right off the scale.

the other half of the equation, which can be seen in the video, is the angled, controlled feed set up, which makes feeding slick, positive, and totally without glitches. The round slides up under the extractor at first contact, and is positively controlled all the way in and out.

Good things coming for the Marlinophiles

[adirondakjack]

Man he can work a lever. If he was pulling the trigger on those rounds it would sound like a machine gun.

Fast, not even. that was slow. We have a target called a Texas Star,,a five pointed star with five detachable plates at the ends of the arms. It is mounted on a bearing so when a plate falls, the star begins to rotate as the balance is disturbed. Most shooters find that after the first two plates, the star is moving quick and jerky, and they play the devil getting all five with their first five shots. I can clean all five of the plates off before the thing can even START to move, thanks to a very slick Marlin and lots of practice. Five rounds, five targets in about 1.8 seconds. The really fast shooters can go better yet.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

No, that isn't me, it's my friend, Widdowmaker Hill from TN. Him, me and a few select n'er do well folks from around the country have been busy coming up with this new Marlin iteration.

Deuce shoots a "Spur" short stroked Marlin (I have two of those, both VERY short stroked for C45S), and is very quick.

"Widder" isn't real fast with the rifle, his claim to fame is the fastest TWO GUNS alive (world record "gunfighter" two pistols, ten shots, 1.8??? seconds.

The Widderm'aj'ik is a slick, fast levergun to be sure. I'm almost done with one here, and even as slow as I am, I can run 10 through it in 3.1 seconds, and have done JUST 3 seconds with the short stroked rifle. and probobly will do that or better with practice with the Widderm'aj'ic Marlin.

What makes the widderm'aj'ic special is unlike the short stroked Marlin, no handmade carrier is needed, not THAT much labor time, and aside from a one-pice firing pin, no parts to buy. He's publishing the entire process, so any smith who wants to can learn it.

To give ya an idea how smooth it is, I stood the one I'm working on up on a scale, hammer down, and opened the lever, watching the scale deflection. The lever effort is 2.5 lbs. A stock Marlin would likely lift right off the scale.

the other half of the equation, which can be seen in the video, is the angled, controlled feed set up, which makes feeding slick, positive, and totally without glitches. The round slides up under the extractor at first contact, and is positively controlled all the way in and out.

Good things coming for the Marlinophiles

I would add, this angle mod to the carrier makes the marlin more likely to run SWC's. With the stock carrier the round has to go almost straight in and a SWC is likely to catch on the chamber mouth. Lowering the back of the round this slight angle allows the round to be sort of rolled into the chamber.

[Hobie]

We've talked about this before. This is like a 39A being able to run shorts and longrifles alternately. Quite a feat. It must be a feat because it hadn't been done before!

Y'all gonna do one for the .357 Mag that'll run .38 wadcutters?

Thanks for sharing.

[adirondakjack]

No, that isn't me, it's my friend, Widdowmaker Hill from TN. Him, me and a few select n'er do well folks from around the country have been busy coming up with this new Marlin iteration.

Deuce shoots a "Spur" short stroked Marlin (I have two of those, both VERY short stroked for C45S), and is very quick.

"Widder" isn't real fast with the rifle, his claim to fame is the fastest TWO GUNS alive (world record "gunfighter" two pistols, ten shots, 1.8??? seconds.

The Widderm'aj'ik is a slick, fast levergun to be sure. I'm almost done with one here, and even as slow as I am, I can run 10 through it in 3.1 seconds, and have done JUST 3 seconds with the short stroked rifle. and probobly will do that or better with practice with the Widderm'aj'ic Marlin.

What makes the widderm'aj'ic special is unlike the short stroked Marlin, no handmade carrier is needed, not THAT much labor time, and aside from a one-pice firing pin, no parts to buy. He's publishing the entire process, so any smith who wants to can learn it.

To give ya an idea how smooth it is, I stood the one I'm working on up on a scale, hammer down, and opened the lever, watching the scale deflection. The lever effort is 2.5 lbs. A stock Marlin would likely lift right off the scale.

the other half of the equation, which can be seen in the video, is the angled, controlled feed set up, which makes feeding slick, positive, and totally without glitches. The round slides up under the extractor at first contact, and is positively controlled all the way in and out.

Good things coming for the Marlinophiles

I would add, this angle mod to the carrier makes the marlin more likely to run SWC's. With the stock carrier the round has to go almost straight in and a SWC is likely to catch on the chamber mouth. Lowering the back of the round this slight angle allows the round to be sort of rolled into the chamber.

Nate, the .44 spl. rounds I am using to test the .44 I'm doing are 240 SWCs with a full sized driving band. Corn through a goose on ex-lax Like I told Widder when we talked about this, angle feeding is exactly like "rocking in" the shells in a SXS.

Hobie, it's the controlled feeding that makes it all work. Otherwise the timing would be so critical as to fail. I'm told the .32 Marlins had a two-step cartridge stop but were so finicky most of em wouldn't feed both H&R and .32 S&W longs. But the factory rifle is not controlled, angle fed.

BTW there is one currently being built in .357/.38 SPL/.38 Long Colt. When properly timed, they ought to feed a fired case loaded through the gate, and certainly could be set up to accomodate short bullets of any profile.

When I say controlled feed, I mean exactly like a Mauser. The round sits "nose high, butt low" on the carrier, and the bolt contacts it only with the bottom "lips" below the true bolt face. The "lips" are profiled to match the feed angle of the case head, and as the rim slips into position, the extractor holds it there without having to snap ober the case (that snapping over the case can cause rounds to shuck out, jam in the chamber crooked, or stovepipe. if the extractor simply slips up ahead of the rim without snapping, the case is captured and held on the breechface, such that it is very securely guided.

What he doesn't show in the video is how you can slowly feed a round, and within 1/4" of bolt travel after first contact, the case is well enough captured that if you stop the bolt and retract it, the case comes with. Again, much like the Mauser. We toyed with a hard extractor, but ditched that idea as we wanted to preserve the ability to "port feed" a reload if desired (that would push feed most likely, as it wouldn't always properly set on the carrier.) Hence the continued use of s spring-loaded extractor.

AAMOF with the chamfered chamber mouth, you can fairly easily "toss one in" the chamber and slap the bolt shut behind it. It sure ain't grand dad's Marlin

[awp101]

the other half of the equation, which can be seen in the video, is the angled, controlled feed set up, which makes feeding slick, positive, and totally without glitches. The round slides up under the extractor at first contact, and is positively controlled all the way in and out.

I would add, this angle mod to the carrier makes the marlin more likely to run SWC's. With the stock carrier the round has to go almost straight in and a SWC is likely to catch on the chamber mouth. Lowering the back of the round this slight angle allows the round to be sort of rolled into the chamber.

OK, you have my attention... I can't access the vid from work (stupid firewall ) so I can't see what was done but is it something the "garage gunsmith" can do with minimal tools (like a Dremel? )

[adirondakjack]

AWP, this is what I'd call advanced kitchen table gun butchery. Yes you could, and yes you could screw it up. I'm nobody's gunsmith, but if I'd had this article and not been doing it while the process was not yet refined (and without pics) I woulda had a relatively easy time. As it is I had some issues, and in the process of solving them, was able to contribute my own tweaks to the final product.

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Wid ... Marlin.htm

[awp101]

AWP, this is what I'd call advanced kitchen table gun butchery. Yes you could, and yes you could screw it up.

Thanks, so a spare carrier or two on hand wouldn't be a bad idea...

[ohwin94_61]

Yes thats Larry Weishuhn has done a lot of hunting shows can be seen on Verse Television also know as Mr Whitetail
http://www.larryweishuhntv.com/

[adirondakjack]

Yes thats Larry Weishuhn has done a lot of hunting shows can be seen on Verse Television also know as Mr Whitetail
http://www.larryweishuhntv.com/

Sorry, I don't get the connection? Who is Larry in regards this thread?

[Rifleman336]

[quote="adirondakjack"][quote="Nate Kiowa Jones"][quote="adirondakjack

BTW there is one currently being built in .357/.38 SPL/.38 Long Colt. When properly timed, they ought to feed a fired case loaded through the gate, and certainly could be set up to accomodate short bullets of any profile.


AAMOF with the chamfered chamber mouth, you can fairly easily "toss one in" the chamber and slap the bolt shut behind it. It sure ain't grand dad's Marlin [/quote]

Now that's what I need!!!! Now if their only a gunsmith that I could trust to do this. The ones around here have little to zero experiance working with leverguns.

Any recommendations?

Also is it manditory that a one piece firing pin be used, the reason I ask is for the two piece system is a safety feature, I'd rather not disable. Even if it causes it not to be as smooth.


Rifleman 336

[adirondakjack]

[quote="adirondakjack

BTW there is one currently being built in .357/.38 SPL/.38 Long Colt. When properly timed, they ought to feed a fired case loaded through the gate, and certainly could be set up to accomodate short bullets of any profile.


AAMOF with the chamfered chamber mouth, you can fairly easily "toss one in" the chamber and slap the bolt shut behind it. It sure ain't grand dad's Marlin

Now that's what I need!!!! Now if their only a gunsmith that I could trust to do this. The ones around here have little to zero experiance working with leverguns.

Any recommendations?

Also is it manditory that a one piece firing pin be used, the reason I ask is for the two piece system is a safety feature, I'd rather not disable. Even if it causes it not to be as smooth.


Rifleman 336

The mods are so new that no gunsmith has done em YET (those involved are all amateurs). I think our own Nate Kiowa Jones (Steve Young) could do a good job if he decides to learn the mods. Nobody is advertizing it yet..... The 1pc FP is indeed not required, but does make em run slicker and allows a lighter mainspring to be used. You do realize the 2pc is only a safety in the event ya forget to put the bolt block back in when assembling the gun, and has no other real function?

[ohwin94_61]

Yes thats Larry Weishuhn has done a lot of hunting shows can be seen on Verse Television also know as Mr Whitetail
http://www.larryweishuhntv.com/

Sorry, I don't get the connection? Who is Larry in regards this thread?

That is Larry Weisehuhn doing the video

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

[quote="adirondakjack

BTW there is one currently being built in .357/.38 SPL/.38 Long Colt. When properly timed, they ought to feed a fired case loaded through the gate, and certainly could be set up to accomodate short bullets of any profile.


AAMOF with the chamfered chamber mouth, you can fairly easily "toss one in" the chamber and slap the bolt shut behind it. It sure ain't grand dad's Marlin

Now that's what I need!!!! Now if their only a gunsmith that I could trust to do this. The ones around here have little to zero experiance working with leverguns.

Any recommendations?

Also is it manditory that a one piece firing pin be used, the reason I ask is for the two piece system is a safety feature, I'd rather not disable. Even if it causes it not to be as smooth.


Rifleman 336

The mods are so new that no gunsmith has done em YET (those involved are all amateurs). I think our own Nate Kiowa Jones (Steve Young) could do a good job if he decides to learn the mods. Nobody is advertizing it yet..... The 1pc FP is indeed not required, but does make em run slicker and allows a lighter mainspring to be used. You do realize the 2pc is only a safety in the event ya forget to put the bolt block back in when assembling the gun, and has no other real function?

AJ,
The Marlin feeding problem where the rim is prematurely engaging the extractor and causing the stutter has been a round for awhile. All though I haven't been removing near as much metal from the carrier I have been lowering the back of the carrier and removing some of that lower rim shelf on the bolt face to cure this problem. I don't really advertise it I guess because I'm know more for my 92 work.

[adirondakjack]

Steve, I knew some cut the one side right off the shelf, but I had not heard of angling boith of them partially like I did for the widderm'aj'ik project. I do know what is unique is combining all the mods that comprise the project. In a conversation with a "name" smith the other night I opined "there are very few smiths who understnd the Marlin fully in the way Steve Young understands the 92". Even Widdowmaker says the biggest thing to come out of this project and publishing it will be to spur greater understanding of the process by which the Marlin moves rounds through and how we can improve it..... That we also get it to run the short rounds without a short stroke like spur does, and without a new carrier is new as far as I know, and having it run them and the full length rounds is icing on the cake. (Spur's guns won't)

Not to knock others, but many do what they have been taught, and do it by rote without a broader understanding. Few have a full grasp of how all the geometry works, etc...... In any event none of this is very difficult so long as you use a light touch so as not to need the "putting back" tool

Chamfer the mag tube bore and chamber mouth, cut the top deck of the carrier, angle the bolt face, tune the extractor, perhaps use a secondary spring under the extractor to make it stay in the same line better, and adjust the bottom of the carrier to optimize timing and yer there.... Do the other normal slicking, radius the snail, etc, Ought to be 2 1/2 or 3 hrs tops if ya have done a couple of em.....

[Nixterdemus]

Thanks for sharing. That's one slick Marlin.

What you ballpark the total package, more or less, from scratch buying the lever from Buds?

I like the 45 spl concept and what's not to like about being able to load extra rounds?

[adirondakjack]

I'd leave it to the pros to price their work, but they get on the order of $150-$200 to make a rifle fully race ready, so I'd use that as a guide. That is cheap money for the kind of expertise involved, (look at how much simple stuff like brake work on cars costs these days).....

[Rifleman336]

The mods are so new that no gunsmith has done em YET (those involved are all amateurs). I think our own Nate Kiowa Jones (Steve Young) could do a good job if he decides to learn the mods. Nobody is advertizing it yet..... The 1pc FP is indeed not required, but does make em run slicker and allows a lighter mainspring to be used. You do realize the 2pc is only a safety in the event ya forget to put the bolt block back in when assembling the gun, and has no other real function?[/quote]


Ok, forgive my ignorance, but I tryed looking up the bolt block (are your trying to say the safety?)on the maurder homestead exploded diagram of the 1894. And it's called something else, what is it so I can get an idea of what your talking about and how it relates. Once I see it, then I could change my mind if I figure it's safe.

Rifleman 336

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

The mods are so new that no gunsmith has done em YET (those involved are all amateurs). I think our own Nate Kiowa Jones (Steve Young) could do a good job if he decides to learn the mods. Nobody is advertizing it yet..... The 1pc FP is indeed not required, but does make em run slicker and allows a lighter mainspring to be used. You do realize the 2pc is only a safety in the event ya forget to put the bolt block back in when assembling the gun, and has no other real function?

Ok, forgive my ignorance, but I tryed looking up the bolt block (are your trying to say the safety?)on the maurder homestead exploded diagram of the 1894. And it's called something else, what is it so I can get an idea of what your talking about and how it relates. Once I see it, then I could change my mind if I figure it's safe.

Rifleman 336[/quote]


It's #42 the locking bolt.

Marlin 1894 Parts List

As this locking bolt locks up into the breech bolt it also pushs the rear portion of the firing pin #21 in-line with the front portion #20.

BTW, the 336 is set up the same way and there are one piece firing pins for them as well.

[Rifleman336]

Thanks, Nate Kiwa Jones and Anirondak Jack now that, I see the part in question, your right. Forgetting to put in that piece is about like forgetting to put on the lever. I was under the impression that the two piece firing pin was a "drop" or inertial safety.

Strangly enough, yes my 336 has a two piece fireing pin, but is smoother than my 1894C. I'm sure it has to do with action geometry between the two.

The 1894C seems to have a "hump" that I have roll over and I don't like that. All I know is I felt the differance with an older pre-safety model in .357, that it was so smooth that it felt like oil between two plates of glass, and I'd like to do that with mine!

I can't wait.

Thanks as always,

Rifleman 336

[adirondakjack]

Forgive my mangling of proper terminology. As far as I can tell Marlin went to the 2pc. firing pin because some lunk head probably left the locking bolt out, fired his rifle and got himself hurt.... I personally look at it this way, If ya ever serviced wheel bearings on a car and left out the cotter pin that holds the spindle nut in place, yes, yer front wheel could fall off, but ya know what, we don't have an ignition interconnect on those either...... SOMETIMES stupidity is painful.....

[Rifleman336]

[quote="adirondakjack"]Forgive my mangling of proper terminology. [/quote]

I was almost too embaressed to ask, I didn't want to anger you for something that could obvious be overlooked by me on the parts diagram. But now I'm glad I found out about the reason for the one piece firing pin.

So I again learned more good things to know and love about my Marlins, so thank you, sir!!

Rifleman 336

[adirondakjack]

Forgive my mangling of proper terminology.

I was almost too embaressed to ask, I didn't want to anger you for something that could obvious be overlooked by me on the parts diagram. But now I'm glad I found out about the reason for the one piece firing pin.

So I again learned more good things to know and love about my Marlins, so thank you, sir!!

Rifleman 336

FWIW if you ever have reason to believe a Marlin has been taken apart, before firing it, turn it upside down, open the lever and note there is a hook on the lever in front of the trigger, and that hook interlocks with a mating hook on the "lock Block" aka bolt lock, which shows itself as a square piece of unblued steel about 3/8" square. If ya got nothing in front of the trigger except a big honking hole extending all the way from the trigger to the lever itself, that block is missing and the gun must NOT be fired, but ought to be tagged and zip-tied shut until it gets fixed.