Colt Burgess from Uberti

[JReed]

I may have missed this but I noticed that Uberti has the Burgess up on there site. Nice looking rifle.
http://www.uberti.com/firearms/1883_lev ... urgess.php

[Warhawk]

I love it! Did you also see the new for 2010 1873 carbine in 44 Magnum? Or the 1873 "Callahan" in 44 Mag.

Uberti is going to get some of my money this year!

[Ysabel Kid]

Got an e-mail from Benelli today announcing these are now available. Wow, these are beautiful, but not cheap! Someday...

[Ysabel Kid]

I love it! Did you also see the new for 2010 1873 carbine in 44 Magnum? Or the 1873 "Callahan" in 44 Mag.

Uberti is going to get some of my money this year!

I saw the "Callahan" too! Also saw the .22 LR.

The wish list grows and grows!!!

[JReed]

Yes I did purdy looking guns. I like the look of their rolling block except for the change they made to the rear of the reciever it makes the butt stock come down in an odd fashion.

[.45colt]

I really like the look of the Burgess,but the real thing of interest is a '73 in .44 mag? How in the world are they pulling this off?

[J Miller]

I really like the look of the Burgess,but the real thing of interest is a '73 in .44 mag? How in the world are they pulling this off?

Same thought I had.

Joe

[Halfbreed]

I was always under the impression that it wasn't the metallurgy that made the '73 week, it was the design, and no modern alloy could change that. Maybe the innards are a whole new design. I like the idea if it works.

[.45colt]

Looking at the site again this morning at least Uberti did fit the '73 .44 mag with a shotgun style butt. with the drop in the stock of a '73 and a 19" barrel it will be allot of fun to shoot on a summer day with a t shirt on. . one of the Members over at cascity has taken delivery of a Burgess in 44-40,but I have not seen a range report yet.
If they make the Burgess in 38-40 or .357mag I will be looking real hard at them.

[RIHMFIRE]

nice lookin shooter....but the msrp is too high for me

[Buck Elliott]

The "Callahan" .44 Mag revolver looks like an updated version of Uberti's Cattleman in .44 Mag, which they made for years. Don't know the origin of the name, but I once had an older version of their SA .44, which I then foolishly let go. It was a sweet shooter, and more comfortable with .44 Mag factory ammo than any stock Ruger .44 SA I ever fired.

I want to see what Uberti did to the '73 rifle internals to allow it to accept .44 Mag pressures....

[J Miller]

The "Callahan" .44 Mag revolver looks like an updated version of Uberti's Cattleman in .44 Mag, which they made or years. Don't know the origin of the name, but I once had an older version of the .44, which I then foolishly let go. It was a sweet shooter, and more comfortable with .44 Mag factory ammo than any stock Ruger .44 SA I ever fired.

I want to see what Uberti did to the '73 rifle internals to allow it to accept .44 Mag pressures....

Me too. First one on the forum to get one has to pull the side plates and take pics for us.

Joe

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I was always under the impression that it wasn't the metallurgy that made the '73 week, it was the design, and no modern alloy could change that. Maybe the innards are a whole new design. I like the idea if it works.

Isn't there room for beefier links and a larger link pin made of a modern tool steel perhaps to give some room for increased capability?

[Ben_Rumson]

Curious here too to see the innards of the 44 mag Uberti....Not so sure how weak toggle link actions really are... Many here have read the results of the 76 Winchester destruction tests... IIRC the links didn't fail, frame & barrel did..The P 08 Luger 9mm uses the toggle link.. they even made one or two in 45 ACP!
The 8mm Mauser Maxim Machine Gun used it too...
Maxim: http://www.mg0815.com/0815info.htm
Luger: http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/ebook/future.htm

[KWK]

the new for 2010 1873 carbine in 44 Magnum

... and then there is what looks to be a No.2 Rolling Block in .45-70 and .30-30!

From what foundry are these guys getting their metals?

[Leverluver]

Maxim, Vickers, Luger. Evidently, somewhere along the line, size does matter in toggle links.

[jlchucker]

Looking at the site again this morning at least Uberti did fit the '73 .44 mag with a shotgun style butt. with the drop in the stock of a '73 and a 19" barrel it will be allot of fun to shoot on a summer day with a t shirt on. . one of the Members over at cascity has taken delivery of a Burgess in 44-40,but I have not seen a range report yet.
If they make the Burgess in 38-40 or .357mag I will be looking real hard at them.

You've got a point about the 44 mag and the shotgun butt. Years ago I bought a Winnie 94 trapper in 44, and have since put countless rounds through it--many from a bench, often wearing a t-shirt in the summer. A few years ago I got the urge for an EMF 92 rifle (24 inch octagon) in 44 mag. That was a beautiful rifle, no lawyersafeties, and a nice, color-case crescent buttplate. I took it to the range with a box of handloads that I'd had for use in my trapper--just to try. That rifle sure banged my shoulder black and blue! It's a longsleeve-shirt-weather rifle for me now. Felt Recoil from a shotgun buttplate is typically a lot less!! Uberti seems to be pretty smart with that shotgun butt.

[revolvergeek]

The new 10 shot 22LR Stallion looks like it might be a lot of fun.

That little Rolling Block in .45-70 weighing 4.5 pounds must kick! One of those in .38-55 might make a great primitive season whitetail gun for around here though....

[Buck Elliott]

The new 10 shot 22LR Stallion looks like it might be a lot of fun.

That little Rolling Block in .45-70 weighing 4.5 pounds must kick! One of those in .38-55 might make a great primitive season whitetail gun for around here though....

Probably kicks more than the Ruger #3 in .45-70, I'd think. And that was bad enough...

[Hobie]

The new 10 shot 22LR Stallion looks like it might be a lot of fun.

That little Rolling Block in .45-70 weighing 4.5 pounds must kick! One of those in .38-55 might make a great primitive season whitetail gun for around here though....

Probably kicks more than the Ruger #3 in .45-70, I'd think. And that was bad enough...

I have a .45-70 rifle barrel for my Contender and the whole set-up weighs about 5½ lbs. The Ruger #3 .45-70 kicked worse.

[rodeo kid]

does anyone know if Uberti is currently making an 1866 in .22lr?

[KWK]

The factory site lists both the .22 LR and .22 Mag. However, the factory only makes runs of certain guns and chambers every few years. I don't know if any of the US importers have any on hand.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

The "Callahan" .44 Mag revolver looks like an updated version of Uberti's Cattleman in .44 Mag, which they made for years. Don't know the origin of the name, but I once had an older version of their SA .44, which I then foolishly let go. It was a sweet shooter, and more comfortable with .44 Mag factory ammo than any stock Ruger .44 SA I ever fired.

I want to see what Uberti did to the '73 rifle internals to allow it to accept .44 Mag pressures....

I was by the Uberti Booth today. Yes, the Callahan is a re-run of the Cattleman/Buckhorn but with an un-fluted cylinder. A SAA clone about 10% larger than the colt.

I actually saw it Tuesday but missed the 44mag 73 so I went today to take a look at the 73 and talk to them about it. I had it SXS with a 357m and externally it is the same size, not bulked up. My first thought was maybe the links were wider to provide more surface area and the accomplished that by narrowing the top of the finger lever and just grew the links inward. But, looking from the bottom where the lever enters the receiver and it doesn't look like it's any narrower.
I ask the shirts there and all they could tell me is they didn't know anything about the insides but they were sure it would handle the pressure.
It's possible someone else had the same questions because the side plate screw was a little shiny where a driver didn't fit just right. I should have found a screw driver and ask to take it the cover off.
I guess we will just have to wait and see.

[KWK]

I too wondered if they might have fattened the links. Another possibility is to have used larger diameter pins in the links along with better steels.

Yet another possibility is to finely work the ends of the links so they better bear against the mating link, to spread the load over an area bigger than just the pins. Pictures I've seen of the Uberti internals suggest these replicas carry all the thrust through the pins, but I've not actually had one apart and in my hands. The picture I saw compared the links to original Winchester links, and the latter looked to have much closer fitting link ends.

Nate, did they have a Burgess on hand to play with?

[Buck Elliott]

NKJ, don't mean to be disputateous, but even a Ruger Vaquero is only 5% larger than a Colt SAA, and the "Buckhorn/Callahan" isn't quite as big as the Vaq.

Still, the Uberti offering is a very useful .44 Mag. revolver.

[Old Time Hunter]

That Burgess sure is a pretty looking firearm. My understanding the originals had some strength issues. But then again so did the '73 Winchester, more due to the "toggle" link not having a secure lock up more so than the metallurgy. Other than the lever, the only other lock up is the "over" centering of the fulcrum of the link assembly and the little "tabs" to keep it from going farther. Did they possible make the "tabs" beefier on the tops of the link? I believe the .44mag has more pressure than a .30-30 doesn't it?

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

We have been talking about that Uberti '73 in 44 Mag over on the SASS wire recently. According to my Speer manual, SAAMI max pressure for 30-30 is 38,000 CUP. SAAMI max pressure for 44 Mag is 36,000 PSI. Unfortunately, there is no direct correlation between CUP and PSI.

However, all the guns Uberti produces must be proofed in government run proof houses. There is no requirement for proofing guns made in the USA. So a rifle chambered for 44 Mag will have been proofed with a proof load over the maximum SAAMI pressure. This means the rifle can take the pressure. My concern is more from repeated battering over time to the links and the mortises they ride in. Uberti does not always do a great job of properly fitting the links to the mortises, many times the pivot pins take the brunt of the force of recoil. I would be concerned about the effects over time from recoil from full 44 Mag loads.

As an aside, a friend bought a used Uberti '73 chambered in 357 Mag a number of years ago. When he got it home, he discovered a hairline crack in the frame. Nobody was sure what caused the crack, but he returned it to the dealer.

jlchucker: Crescent butts are not meant to be placed on the shoulder like a modern shotgun style buttplate. No wonder you got hurt. Crescent buttplates are meant to be hiked a little bit further outboard, so the crescent encircles the shoulder joint. That way the points serve their purpose of keeping the rifle in place and the points do not dig into your shoulder. Admittedly, this is often awkward at the bench. Many years ago I had a beautiful cut down Winchester '94 rifle chambered for 30-30 with a crescent buttplate. I wish I knew then what I do now about shooting crescent buttplates. That light rifle really HURT whenever I fired it. It was stolen many years ago, but if I still owned it I would love to see how nice it was to shoot when shouldered properly.

[J Miller]

European firearms are proofed useing CIPs proof loads. CIPs is their version of our SAAMI. CIPs pressures run hotter than SAAMI so I have no doubt the 1873s can handle the pressure, but my concern is as yours is, what about the long run.

Personally, were I to purchase an 1873 copy I'd stick with 44WCF or one of the original calibers or the .45 Colt. I don't think I'd go for a magnum caliber.

Joe

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

NKJ, don't mean to be disputateous, but even a Ruger Vaquero is only 5% larger than a Colt SAA, and the "Buckhorn/Callahan" isn't quite as big as the Vaq.

Still, the Uberti offering is a very useful .44 Mag. revolver.

Buck, to be honest I don't know. I've never took the time to measure one and do the math. I've read they were as much as 15% and as you say just 5% so for practical I just split the difference.

DJ, this is what I posted on the wire.

True, it was proofed over there. The Uberti folks made that very clear. But, like you I was more concerned with the long haul. Making proof and shooting a steady diet of upper end 44mag is two different things. In the case of the toggle link action it's a matter of the higher number of parts required to contain the pressure evenually shooting loose. You just can't get around the fact that the more parts you have the wear accumulated for each part accelerates the eventual failure of the action. It may not be a catastrophic failure. It may just shoot loose to a point that is just doesn't lock up tight enough for the firing pin to reach the primer anymore. Much like the current Uberti 73's that have excessive headspace and when a spring kit action job is done they won't fire.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Oops double tap.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

On the Burgess, I did get a chance to handle it but unforutnately the action was locked up. At first I thought it was the lever lock but that wasn't the case. It was just stuck.

I do think it does feel good in the hand. The action is more compact than the 73. More like a 92 but certainly not as strong. I do think it will be stronger than the 73 though. Particularly for the long haul. Even though it's a toggle link action it has less parts and they are more robust with larger connecting pins for more surface area.

[KWK]

unforutnately the action was locked up... It was just stuck.

Which is why we'll wait for more reports from users of these new guns.

For what it's worth, I've asked a local dealer to get me one of Uberti's No.2 rollers in .30 WCF. I fully expect it will stretch cases to the point of frustration, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I can always rebarrel to .32-40 or .38-40; it is a nice, compact little action.

[Alan Wood]

unforutnately the action was locked up... It was just stuck.

Which is why we'll wait for more reports from users of these new guns.

For what it's worth, I've asked a local dealer to get me one of Uberti's No.2 rollers in .30 WCF. I fully expect it will stretch cases to the point of frustration, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I can always rebarrel to .32-40 or .38-40; it is a nice, compact little action.

Ok why do you expect it to stretch cases?

[KWK]

It's a very narrow action with a lock up well to the rear of the breech face.

This action was originally designed for rimfire BP loads. Just because modern steels won't fracture as easily doesn't change the fact there isn't a lot of metal there--it will still spring just as much as before. Scaling this action width up, the .30-30 in a No.2 is more stress/strain than any smokeless load Remington ever offered in a full size sporting rolling block (the No.5).

Again, I hope I'm wrong; hopeful (or foolish) enough I'm willing to buy one to see for myself. (I'll note the last military rolling blocks--in 8 Lebel--proved serviceable, so maybe this No.2 will work.)

[Alan Wood]

It's a very narrow action with a lock up well to the rear of the breech face.

This action was originally designed for rimfire BP loads. Just because modern steels won't fracture as easily doesn't change the fact there isn't a lot of metal there--it will still spring just as much as before. Scaling this action width up, the .30-30 in a No.2 is more stress/strain than any smokeless load Remington ever offered in a full size sporting rolling block (the No.5).

Again, I hope I'm wrong; hopeful (or foolish) enough I'm willing to buy one to see for myself. (I'll note the last military rolling blocks--in 8 Lebel--proved serviceable, so maybe this No.2 will work.)

Thank you for the explanation. Kinda long the lines of why if I buy a Miroku 95 it will be in 30/40 not 30/06. I don't much bye the theory that 100 years of metalurgy is enough to compensate for marginal saftey factor in the head space department.