Another horse question

[mikld]

Please excuse this city boy's ignernce, but I've noticed in several old photos, 1880s - early 1900s, men shooting while on or near their horse. The muzzle seems to be pretty close to the horse's ears. In one photo a soldier has his horse laying down and he is shooting from behind it with his pistol within 6" of the horse's ear. Were there a lot of deaf horses during that period or are they set-up for the camera?

[Terry Murbach]

BOTH. A horse can be trained to accept gunfire fairly easy if he's never heard it before up close.

[KirkD]

I only shot near my horse once. I was about 30 feet away and he sure gave a good start. Like Terry says, I imagine the cavalry horses were trained to get used to gun fire, but even then I sure wouldn't want to be shooting 6" from my poor horses ear! Must be a posed shot.

[Doc Hudson]

i agree with both Kirk and the Terry Murbach imitator.

A cavalry horse who would not stand gunfire, who indeed would not charge straight into gunfire if so commanded, would become soap in pretty short order.

It is all in the matter of training.

i remember Skeeter Skelton telling about making the mistake of shooting from the back of a horse not trained to stand fire. He landed on a prickly pear cactus and his brand new Colt SAA got a bad scratch on the grip frame.

Jim Wilson told of a friend who shot a snake from horseback, using a Colt M-1911. The horse started bucking and the friend grabbed for the saddlehorn with his gun hand and shot the horse right through the withers, dropping it DRT. Sheriff Wilson said he helped get the saddle off but wouldn't help haul it back to the truck. he also said he never carried an automatic on horseback for that very reason.

now if you want to know how to train them so it won't come unglued at the sound of nearby gunfire, you will have to ask a real horseman, I've no idea.

[Otto]

...now if you want to know how to train them so it won't come unglued at the sound of nearby gunfire, you will have to ask a real horseman, I've no idea.

I've read accounts from Cowboy Mounted shooters, wherein they suggest getting the horse accustomed to the faint crack of semi-distant gunfire, and then slowly increasing the proximity.

[Hankster]

Otto is correct. You have to accustom them too it. Some just never accept it.. others no problem. My range is about 50 yds north of the "closest" part of my horses "pasture".... at first they would head off to the farthest corner... then over time they just looked up, moved round a bit, then went back to eating... two of the three now allow .22's shot while standing right next to them.... horses are a "fear n flight" animal..... you have to "remove the fear" to "remove the flight" instinct.... patience and slow and steady is the way to go.. and always end any training session on a POSITIVE response.....no matter how small.. build on small but steady successes with a horse.... and you'll train a winner!

[76/444]

I produced about two dozen horses in the past decade+. I am down to eleven now and of all that number over the years only one will not run from my 44mag when either dispatching a rattler or calling my dogs.

Cowboy shooters can buy ear plugs for their mounts.

One can start with a 22 and work your way up, if you really have a horse you really want to have accept gunfire. But there are exceptions to every rule.

[J35]

I trained ours by accident

I would spend hours out in the shady breezy barn in the summer with the 22 and 12 GA.

Had a nice water tank I could see from the barn and all sorts of wildlife would fly walk crawl out of the desert to that little shady water hole, it was a target rich enviorment.

After a while the horses became very indifferent to the noise.

One thing led to another and I was shooting while mounted, no problems as long as they new the shot was coming, like the sound of a hammer being cocked or safty being clicked off. If you just pulled up and shot they would jump just like me or you would if someone fired a shot close behind when we were not expecting it.

The hard part was teaching them to hold thier breath, never figured out how to do that, just learned to time the shot with the horses breathing.

Have fun

[Sixgun]

We have three horses and I shoot around them all the time. They never flinch.....but...........the stuff I shoot is not all the loud. (pistol calibered leverguns & .22's with the centerfires being light loaded) The few times we got a new horse, they didn't like it and would run, but as time went on, the shooting did not bother them. Never did try ripping off a 30 rd. mag from the 6940 though.

I agree with Hankster, especially when it comes to dogs. Some of our dogs will stand at my feet while I'm shooting and some run back in the house. A few of the dogs are 10-14 years old and still have not become accustomed to it.---------Sixgun

[Rusty]

I'm not a horse person at all but I do listen to a lot of them. I worked with a fellow once that hunted from horseback. He said his big mare that was his favorite would actually get ready for the shot when she heard the hammer being cocked. He also said that in looking out for the horse he would never shoot over her head.

[ndcowboy]

I'm reading the book "Horse Soldiers" right now. It is about Special Forces in Afghanistan right after 9-11. In the book it says rifle and pistol fire (rifle fire of the fully automatic kind) didn't bother the horses they used, but mortars and the big bombs from planes would often cause the horses to spook or buck.
Great book.

[SJPrice]

You start small and a ways off and over time move in closer and work your way up in caliber. As you get real close it does not hurt to have them involved in some activity that has their feet moving while you shoot. They are learning while their feet are moving. If they get nervous you make no big deal over it. Just go back to the activity until they are calm and engaged then try it again. It also works well into the training to pop a round or two nearby while they are enjoying some grain or their hay. take it slow and steady and you will be shooting off their back in no time at all. Once you move to their back you can add a simple queue. to warn them the shot is coming. In fact on this one you should do that every time. You will find that even when you draw and fire a quick shot it will be second nature to you and you will include the queue without thinking. As others have said never shoot over their ears and when doing a lot of practice up close get some good ear plugs for your horse. Aj Horses makes a nice set. Again, as with learning to draw and fire fast and accurate, slow is fast. In other words take the training slow and at the horses pace. If you go to fast and scare the horse badly you will be way back beyond square one and will add a lot of time to your training and success. My goal in doing this with my buddy Cinch was to thin the coyote population. We have 6 under our belt in the last year. Four with the 45 Colt, and 2 with my Winchester Trapper in 30-30. My queue is to stop him quartering away from the target and then shift my weight sideways in the saddle so my weight is carried more in the offside stirrup and my other leg is resting over the saddle seat. The side I quarter away changes depending on whether it is a SA or a rifle shot. From my weight shift Cinch knows the shot is about to follow and he steadies up in anticipation. ONE MORE IMPORTANT FACT.....USE BLANKS OR AT THE VERY LEAST SHOT SHELLS FOR YOUR TRAINING SESSIONS and NO SEMI AUTOS. Be safe!

[Buck Elliott]

I'm reading the book "Horse Soldiers" right now. It is about Special Forces in Afghanistan right after 9-11. In the book it says rifle and pistol fire (rifle fire of the fully automatic kind) didn't bother the horses they used, but mortars and the big bombs from planes would often cause the horses to spook or buck.
Great book.

Mortars & Big Bombs would make ME spook or buck too... You betcha!

[horsesoldier03]

There are several military cerimonial horse units left in the military. Their horses are continually exposed to gun fire and even cannon fire. I have even been in a ceremony mounted with a 21 gun salute fired by cannon a single shot at a time. It can be done, you just have to work with them.

[Wrangler John]

Ye-gods, and I used to stuff cotton in their ears just to use the Oster clippers to trim inside, leaving those little contrasting tufts on the points. That way the racket was muffled and all the hair didn't go down inside. I can't even conceive of a horse with tinnitus and hearing loss from gunfire, why they'd have to stop and look around to read your lips every time you clucked or said whoa. I guess you could use sign language, like holding up a can of dog food every time they acted up.