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[Mich Hunter]

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[PaperPatch]

I would give the gift....and be done with it.

[Mich Hunter]

What happens if he has to use it and it is traced back to me?

[Leverdude]

What happens if he has to use it and it is traced back to me?

You'll likely get in trouble if you or he says you "gave" it to him, how much depends on the attitude of the authorities. But if you let him "borrow" it I'd think its fine.

I let my Dad borrow a gun about 15 years ago & he still hasn't returned it.

[Hobie]

Your home of record is Florida. What happens if you "have to use it"?

You asked the question in an open forum. You are overly complicating things. That isn't good.

When you go home carry it with you and leave it there. There is nothing illegal about you returning to your HOR with YOUR property and storing it there, nor is there anything illegal about you gifting your property at your HOR.

[Mich Hunter]

Thing is there is alot of grey area when it comes to the active miltary and residence. My HOR is Michigan, but first duty station was Florida and I changed residence to FL while there. I still vote in Florida elections and so on. From what I have been reading from the ATF, it seems they consider me a SD resident due to me residing here on PCS orders.

[stretch]

It's still not illegal, as far as I can tell, to give an immediate family
member a firearm as a gift, provided that they are not otherwise
restricted from owning one (convicted felon, etc.). I'd check the
Florida law just for fun, but I can't imagine giving a gun as a gift to
your Dad is illegal in that state. It certainly isn't in Maine. Carrying
your personal property locked in the trunk of your car as you go to
visit your father isn't illegal, either.

Any questions, "I gave it to Dad as a gift".

If he has to use it in self-defense, your "gift" to Dad is going to be
the LEAST of your worries!

Give it to Dad and tell him to enjoy it!

-Stretch

[FWiedner]

IMO, the law exists only to limit freedom and make citizens servile to government.

Unless your father is unable to own the gun as a responsible citizen, i.e., mentally incompetent, or a danger to the community, that might prohibit him from buying the gun himself, give it to him.

[jnyork]

Give him the gun. Not a thing wrong with it.

[Hobie]

Thing is there is alot of grey area when it comes to the active miltary and residence. My HOR is Michigan, but first duty station was Florida and I changed residence to FL while there. I still vote in Florida elections and so on. From what I have been reading from the ATF, it seems they consider me a SD resident due to me residing here on PCS orders.

It is your HOR, right?

[JReed]

Thing is there is alot of grey area when it comes to the active miltary and residence. My HOR is Michigan, but first duty station was Florida and I changed residence to FL while there. I still vote in Florida elections and so on. From what I have been reading from the ATF, it seems they consider me a SD resident due to me residing here on PCS orders.

You are not a true resident of SD (Mil status exempts you from state income taxes and having to register vehicles there). If you are a voter in FL and your LES says FL then you are from FL and it will hold in court in any state. Gift the gun to your Dad when you go home on leave and you are GTG. Been gifting guns back and forth with my Dad for years and I have PCS'd all over the place no problems.

[firefuzz]

Federal law allows the purchasing a firearm with the express intent of giving it as a gift to an immediate family member. Unless Florida has some type of registration to be complied with there's no problem at all especially if it's a gun you already owned and just decided to give it to your Dad.

Rob

[Chas.]

FWIW from ATF website:

(B11) What constitutes residency
in a State?
The State of residence is the State
in which an individual is present; the
individual also must have an intention
of making a home in that State. A
member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in
which his or her permanent duty station
is located. If a member of the
Armed Forces maintains a home in
one State and the member’s permanent
duty station is in a nearby State
to which he or she commutes each
day, then the member has two States
of residence and may purchase a
firearm in either the State where the
duty station is located or the State
where the home is maintained.

There was no discussion of gifting except from a parent to a juvenile.

[willygene]

Thank god i live in texas i can buy anybody in my family a gun and make it gift and never worry about it.

[madman4570]

Thing is there is alot of grey area when it comes to the active miltary and residence. My HOR is Michigan, but first duty station was Florida and I changed residence to FL while there. I still vote in Florida elections and so on. From what I have been reading from the ATF, it seems they consider me a SD resident due to me residing here on PCS orders.

You are not a true resident of SD (Mil status exempts you from state income taxes and having to register vehicles there). If you are a voter in FL and your LES says FL then you are from FL and it will hold in court in any state. Gift the gun to your Dad when you go home on leave and you are GTG. Been gifting guns back and forth with my Dad for years and I have PCS'd all over the place no problems.

You da Man Jeremy!

[Jayhawker]

As I understand it, California law allows one to gift a firearm to a parent or offspring, but not to a spouse. You can make the gift without going through an FFL.

I'd leave residency out of it, because owning property and obtaining a driver's license are important steps to determining residency. The IRS may be able to make the point that you are in fact a CA resident by default and challenge your non-taxable FL status. I'd suggest a talk with legal counsel to clear it up.

[Mich Hunter]

As I understand it, California law allows one to gift a firearm to a parent or offspring, but not to a spouse. You can make the gift without going through an FFL.

I'd leave residency out of it, because owning property and obtaining a driver's license are important steps to determining residency. The IRS may be able to make the point that you are in fact a CA resident by default and challenge your non-taxable FL status. I'd suggest a talk with legal counsel to clear it up.

No California here thank god But, rules are different when it comes to military. Just because you are stationed in one state doesn't mean you are a resident. But, when you are military stationed in a state other than what you claim as home, you get the same perks as you would a resident. For example, I am a resident of Florida, but stationed in South Dakota. When it comes to firearms or a hunting license, I am treated as a resident of that state. But, I do not vote here nor do I pay taxes here.

[bj94]

If you are concerned about the "gift" part, then sell it to him for $1.

[Bruce]

Florida does not have any law which would prohibit you giving the firearm as a gift to anyone who can legally own it. Residency is also not an issue for you.

[Leverdude]

As I understand it federal law requires an NICS check etc whenever a handgun's ownership is transfered. The federal paperwork asks if the gun is for you or is intended as a gift, if its a gift the person its being bought for is suposed to fill out the paperwork. I'm not a lawyer but it seems pretty plain that giving a handgun as a gift requires the same procedures as selling it. The money isn't what matters, its the going through the procedure to be sure that the person recieving the gun isn't prohibited from owning it. I can visualize it being construed as a straw purchase etc. If letting him borrow it isn't sufficient why not just run down to a shop & do it legit. Many of the guys here are getting $50 for a transfer in most cases but I'm sure I could transfer one to my dad for nothing if I were of a mind to.

[Hobie]

As I understand it federal law requires an NICS check etc whenever a handgun's ownership is transferred. The federal paperwork asks if the gun is for you or is intended as a gift, if its a gift the person its being bought for is supposed to fill out the paperwork. I'm not a lawyer but it seems pretty plain that giving a handgun as a gift requires the same procedures as selling it. The money isn't what matters, its the going through the procedure to be sure that the person receiving the gun isn't prohibited from owning it. I can visualize it being construed as a straw purchase etc. If letting him borrow it isn't sufficient why not just run down to a shop & do it legit. Many of the guys here are getting $50 for a transfer in most cases but I'm sure I could transfer one to my dad for nothing if I were of a mind to.

Where the heck did you get this info? Not true in VA but you might have a STATE law on that.

[Leverdude]

As I understand it federal law requires an NICS check etc whenever a handgun's ownership is transferred. The federal paperwork asks if the gun is for you or is intended as a gift, if its a gift the person its being bought for is supposed to fill out the paperwork. I'm not a lawyer but it seems pretty plain that giving a handgun as a gift requires the same procedures as selling it. The money isn't what matters, its the going through the procedure to be sure that the person receiving the gun isn't prohibited from owning it. I can visualize it being construed as a straw purchase etc. If letting him borrow it isn't sufficient why not just run down to a shop & do it legit. Many of the guys here are getting $50 for a transfer in most cases but I'm sure I could transfer one to my dad for nothing if I were of a mind to.

Where the heck did you get this info? Not true in VA but you might have a STATE law on that.

Which part Hobie? I know CT has a state law requireing all handgun transfers go thru NICS. I dont need an FFL to sell a friend a handgun but I need to go thru NICS, this only regarding handguns. The federal ATF forms ask if you are buying the gun for yourself unless I missunderstand them, which is entirely possible.

In VA you can give a handgun to anyone you want?

[madman4570]

Boy, After reading a bunch of stuff it can appear pretty confusing.
It appears Florida is not like some of the States where by State Law(both parties being residents of that state and both parties being of age and have no things against them which would disqualify them from gun ownership)still require a state handgun license.

It kinda looks like if you loan or give the handgun to your Father-in-law there might be a form in the Federal law that requires change of ownership (dealing with Handguns)?????????
If you loan it to him-----what if you do change state residence,now you have one of your handguns out of state owned by you???????


If it was me ?------------- I would take good ole Dad(with the gun for him) down to a Florida Gun Dealer(shop)you respect and trust and sell it to Dad there for $5
Let them do whatever they need to do.
You have to much other stuff going on to worry in the back of your mind "but what if"????????

Honestly,
Dont like the idea of "Loaning" Firearms (not talking about going with dad on a hunting trip,I mean like an extended period of time which you are say in Army and a cousin wants to use your pistol???
The deal with Dad watching your guns (locked up) while your away,maybe ok thats different.
You dont have the control of that weapon when someone else has it(Dad or not)BUT-- you are responsible for whatever it affects. As for a gift(proof of ownership and such)Many things no problem,but with all the
legal liability these days "gifting a prior owned handgun by you" Once its Gone/Gifted, I want all possible legal potential issues gone with that gun/relative or not.

[Chas.]

As I understand it federal law requires an NICS check etc whenever a handgun's ownership is transfered. as a straw purchase etc.

No it doesn't, unless the transferer and transferee are in different states. If both are resident of the same state, no check or paperwork is required by ATF. State laws may have other requirements.

[Leverdude]

As I understand it federal law requires an NICS check etc whenever a handgun's ownership is transfered. as a straw purchase etc.

No it doesn't, unless the transferer and transferee are in different states. If both are resident of the same state, no check or paperwork is required by ATF. State laws may have other requirements.

Thanks, I stand corrected.

Thats a big problem IMO in regards to firearms, the glut of conflicting, redundant & confusing laws.
Not sure what I'd do in this situation. My father lives 1/2 mile from me & I'v never thought twice about loaning him a gun.