OT: Rifle Magazine Stubs It's Toe

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:54 pm

As you can see from my post, herein, I left RIFLE MAGZINE editor Dave Scovill a voicemail with my (a longtime subscriber) concerns.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtop ... 590#165590

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:08 pm

FYI:

This was addressed on the 24 Hour Campfire gunwriter forum back in November when the issue first came out. Haviland posts there under the nom de plume of "Elk."

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... /0/fpart/1

As for Haviland, I hate to badmouth a man, but I decided he was a bit of a hack when he did an in-depth feature article awhile back for Wolfe about Speer Bullets. He did a little company history and then went into detail about all the different bullets they offered. Only problem was, he described the Grand Slam as the old dual-core design, when actually it had been re-designed to a mono-core about TWO YEARS prior.

scott

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:29 pm

Yup...that's pretty bad alright.

Cast Bullet Hunter · Post by **Cast Bullet Hunter** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:24 pm

Pete44ru wrote:As you can see from my post, herein, I left RIFLE MAGZINE editor Dave Scovill a voicemail with my (a longtime subscriber) concerns.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtop ... 590#165590

After reading the posts on the link, what can be said. I guess I skipped that article, haven't read the whole rag yet. The pathetic thing is that Rifle/Handloader are just about the best on the market, the others are even worse to the point of being worthless. I have been reading Shooting Times since it was newspaper format in the late 50's as I recall, rarely waste my time no, but there was day when it and guns & Ammo were the best, and almost only, ones out there.

I have had phone dealings with Scoville., don't expect a return call. He is one arrogant ***.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:37 pm

Here's a thread I posted there a couple years back about one of Scovill's columns. More evidence that quality is on the wane, sadly.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... /0/fpart/1

Sadder, still, he's a fellow levergunner.

scott

45-70- · Post by **45-70-** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:47 pm

I think Scovill is a snake. I think he did Fred Zeglin of Z hat custom guns wrong by using Hawk bullets and writing an article testing them and then start calling it the Hawk/Scovill.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:49 pm

I guess I passed by that article on bolt guns because neither the cartridge or rifle(s) interested me. someday, when I'm bored to tears, I might read it. Now, what does that say about the magazine?

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:16 pm

I wish there was a good modern Levergun rag.

cas · Post by **cas** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:24 pm

Rilfe and Handloader remind me of a baseball team who traded for players from every losing team in the league.

For years it was MHO that Handloader was probably the best magazine out there. Then they turned it into a "Gun magazine". the same article from the same people about the same guns. "Here's this model XYZ pistol I own. Here's some groups I shot with it." Woopie!

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:28 pm

Hobie wrote:I guess I passed by that article on bolt guns because neither the cartridge or rifle(s) interested me. someday, when I'm bored to tears, I might read it. Now, what does that say about the magazine?

Awww, c'mon Hobie. I can see feeling that way about the new "Browning" rifle, but the Model 70??? The Model 70 is my other "favorite rifle" right next to the Model 94.

scott

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:40 pm

Well it's horse stuff to say the least. I could have done better than that and I am an moron.

As to magazines, I haven't had a subscription to one for years. Used to have a car mag I read religiously but I got tired of their articles being the same ol' same ol'.

Today you can't get a mag without 50% of it's pages being covered with ads either.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:55 pm

Well... I didn't read that article either, may not have bought the issue, tho I do on ocassion. However, I did read thru all the postings in both links provided above. I think I have a better understanding on what happened. At least the author's explanation is plausible. And, if true, I'd place more blame on the manufacturer's than on the writer. I do have to second others who've said that at least he wrote the article the way the scenario unfolded. Takes a certain amount of courage to admit an error, or, if not actually an error, at least admitting to a reliance on what someone tells you about a gun. I'll leave it to other authors that have been in similar situations to confirm if that's the way it happens. I've only had one article published, and I made a caption error in that one. There was a six month lag between submission and printing, and even then it was another 3 before they printed my correction. Either way, the magazine itself was not the cause. It was my submission.

Maybe I read the whole scenario wrong, but I came away with the opiinion that: Once again, the PR department appears to be the culprit here. Why do PR folks seem to always be so incompetent in everything but marketing? Or is that a bit harsh? Maybe that should be: "Why do PR folks always seem to be marketing articles they know little about, or have no interest in?"

Jeff Quinn · Post by **Jeff Quinn** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:47 pm

I can you fellers from experience, that when any of these factory reps tell you that a gun is sighted in, that means absolutely nothing, and any gunwriter knows that. It is irresponsible and lazy to take a rifle and shoot it at game without checking the zero first.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:34 am

Cancelled my subscription last year.

Sad.....

Ram Hammer · Post by **Ram Hammer** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:01 pm

I get all three; Successful Hunter, Rifle and Handloader. I have to admit that I have been increasingly unhappy with the quality of writing.

The story about shooting an unsighted rifle at an animal offered no contrition. Just matter of fact statement of the events. Without some recognition that is was wrong to hunt in that manner, they made it OK for someone else to do the same thing!

Scovill has turned me off to his writing with his ego way too often. I don't read his stuff anymore.

IMHO most of the Successful Hunter articles are quick narratives of the hunt itself and the rest is a shameless sales pitch for the borrowed equipment used on the hunt.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:04 pm

Well, I am not going to pound on them too hard. I admit it was poor judgement to take a 300yd shot with an unproven rifle, but it been done my many hunters, many times in the past, still no excuse.

Now I am not taking up for him. But 0n 24hourcampfire he said that they kept the guns locked up, and it was dark before he could get a chance to shoot, but others did shoot it, and said it was sighted in. It wasn't like he had brought his own rifle from home on the hunt. I guess they went hunting the next morning and maybe he felt it was messing up too many other people's eairly morning plans to take time to shoot the rifle himself, and once in game country, many people hate to fire a rifle, unless actually at game.

Still yet, not a good siduation, but I have to admit, I would have probably done the same, I would not have been happy about it, but there it is. However, I doubt that I would have written about it on a major gun rag.

The old song about a rifle not shooting to the same point of impact, when shot by another, rings true enough when using open sights, but on scopes, I have not found it to be so, at least not enough to matter under hunting conditions. I base this on me and my family shooting the same guns with the same settings. If my brother in law told me one of his rifles was sighted in, I would trust him and he would trust me, because we have shared the job of sighting in many rifles over the years, and we always hit at the same place, or very close, the only thing that changes is the size of groups, not the general point of impact. Of course if one person can shoot and the other is a poor shot, then it will matter more.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:03 pm

I think if I were in that person's shoes, being regularly subjected to short-notice shooting/hunts, etc - I would make it my business to ensure I had some way to check a gun's zero w/o firing it.

I would at least boresight it, and/or carry a pocket collimator in my kit.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:55 pm

Perhaps I was misunderstood.

The magazines (Rifle and Handloader, I've already let Successful Hunter lapse) are not of the quality they once were or perhaps I've simply outgrown them. However, they have more articles that interest me than any other magazines currently being published. Oh, I'll buy another when a member of the family (here or on the Gord board) writes an article, but odds are that there are fewer and fewer magazines with anything of interest to me. MAYBE that says more about me than the magazines. After all, they have to publish articles that appeal to the vast majority of their market and I'm so beyond that.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:11 pm

Hobie, I agree with your angle on this. I subscribe to 7-8 gun mags and periodicals such as American Rifleman and Muzzle Blasts and Fouling shot that are publications of organizations but the ones like Shooting Times and Guns and ammo are just not up to my speed as far as interest goes.
Mags like Outdoor life and Field and Stream are for rank amatures and heve NO interest for me at all. Good bullet test media!!
The best over the counter type mag. is Handloader and Rifle IMHO.

rob · Post by **rob** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:22 pm

45-70- wrote:I think Scovill is a snake. I think he did Fred Zeglin of Z hat custom guns wrong by using Hawk bullets and writing an article testing them and then start calling it the Hawk/Scovill.

You mean sorta like when Elmer Keith said he had to make the front driving band of his 45 Colt bullet shorter than he liked to stay within a designated weight and then Scovill took a Keith bullet and made the front driving band the proper length and then described in detail how that was a bullet he designed for a college assignment...the RCBS 270-SAA? He was a blatant fool for firing Ross Seyfried and hiring Mike Venturino. I'm still a subscriber but I'm not sure how much longer. I still like reading Brian Pearces handgun articles (mainly to look at the pictures of sixguns I would have if I had the money to come by them honestly) but he's no Elmer Keith and now he's making comments like "my friend Elmer Keith". Probably won't be long until I replace the magazine subscription with an extra bulk order of 44 Mag Remington bullets.

Peter M. Eick · Post by **Peter M. Eick** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:39 am

I bought the older DVD set for Handloader and Rifle.

Amazing how much better the articles were and the quality of the work and writing back in the day.

Now a lot of the articles are more about "me and joe went hunting" and not about the science of reloading or real rifles.

Oh well, at least I have all of the older issues now.

Ravenman · Post by **Ravenman** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:54 am

Peter M. Eick wrote:I bought the older DVD set for Handloader and Rifle.

Amazing how much better the articles were and the quality of the work and writing back in the day.

Now a lot of the articles are more about "me and joe went hunting" and not about the science of reloading or real rifles.

Oh well, at least I have all of the older issues now.

Would you recommend buying the DVD set of Handloader and Rifle? I am not sure if I should buy or not.

Missing the writing of Ross Seyfried very much. Love to reread his stuff in the old Guns&Ammo issues. Same problem with all shooting magazines today more sale brochures than information magazines.
We will never again see writers as Bob Milek, Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, Charlie Askins and Elmer Keith.

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:05 am

+1 Ravenman! I haven't really enjoyed a Gun magazine since Bill Jordan, Skeeter Skelton and Elmer Keith passed away. I've let all of my shooting mags lapse except for American Rifleman. I guess I need to search up all of the "Best of" collections of the good old writers and be happy.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:53 pm

I seldom read any gun magazines thee days, simply because of such articles that one. I rally don't understand what makes these fools tick, but we are much better off by not wasting our time reading their self serving drivel.

The understanding that they are treated to many FREE hunts, and the fact that they actually promote them is enough of a turn off for me. Where can the average guy get 10K for a guided elk or moose hunt? What a crock of BULL-LONEY!

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:18 pm

Swampman wrote:I wish there was a good modern Levergun rag.

As far as I know, "Rifle" and "Handloader" magazines are the only two published magazines that consistently have articles about lever action rifles, cast bullets, old, out of date ammunition (say .50-110,) and the like. Comapred to other published magazines they hold the most interest for me.

Sure, they have some problems but not enough at the present time to make me want to quit buying them.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:39 pm

Lately I seldom enjoy any of the hunting magazines that are offered. Any more it seems they are more in the buisness of advertizing for new equipment and gun manufactures rather than give a quality review. When was the last time you seen a writer tell you to PASS on something? Of course I have been accused of being a person a time or two in my life. I did just buy an issue of Backwoodsman Magazine today.

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:28 pm

horsesoldier,Backwoodsman is a good mag. I subscribe to it but I don't think of it as a gun mag for some reason.

Does anyone remember a magazine from the early '80's (I think) called Pistolero? They bought all the test guns off the rack and didn't accept advertising from gun companies. It was interesting to see them test a new wonder-gun and point out all it's faults while G&A or Shooting Times were raving about what a FANTASTIC firearm the same model was.
I would read that one if it were still available.

Peter M. Eick · Post by **Peter M. Eick** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:04 pm

I have no regrets about buying both of the DVD sets and the yearly updates. The ability to search quickly and find things fast is worth the weight of money I spent on them.

Just to be able to type in say 44 henry rimfire and get all of the references to that cartridge is impressive.

Searching out say the introduction of the 17 Remington or the reviews of the Uberti Henry 1860 has been great.

I find I use the DVD set a lot for quick searches.

OT: Rifle Magazine Stubs It's Toe

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