OT, not even gun related: Blue headlight questions

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:39 am

I've been seeing these blue headlights on newer cars and at the parts stores. Seen some television adds too. According to the adds these blue lights are better than the halogen bulbs we've been using. Supposedly producing more illumination, farther out than the halogens.

Has anybody here actually done any night driving in a vehicle that has these blue headlights?

Is there really a significant improvement?

Joe

Bullard4075 · Post by **Bullard4075** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:09 am

This doesn't answer your question directly .........but might help!

http://www.bestcovery.com/best-replacement-headlights

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:13 am

Personally, I cannot abide them. Most morons who have them set the beam so high that oncoming drivers are blinded by the intensity of the blue-white light. It seems to be a 'thing" among the rice rocket drivers around here.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:14 am

Yes. Not enough difference to recommend the $100 price of upgrade. I just need to get younger eyes. I read that night vision degrades really fast after age 25.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:30 am

Dang things should be banned. Absolutely blinding to oncoming traffic, a real hazard to other drivers.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:49 am

I'll bet you guys all have buggy whips, too

PROPERLY aimed HID lights pose no discomfort to oncoming traffic. For excellent night vision with out the stunning price of the HIDs, look at Sylvania SilverStar replacement. Properly aim them after installation and you will be amazed how much better you can see, and you won't hack off the oncoming traffic.

edsguns · Post by **edsguns** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:59 am

My newest car ('09 Maxima) came with them as part of the sport package when we got it new in Aug, '08. They are called "HID xenon headlights" and they are much brighter at night and the high beams are absolutely awesome. There are laws already in our state, Tn., that outlaw similar aftermarket lights, so it will be interesting to see how that works out.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:17 am

I've seen all the blinding issues mentioned above. But I've also seen the extra illumination they produce. Since I'm driving more at night lately, and my eyes are closer to 60 than 25 I need all the help I can get.

I just called the local Nissan dealer and some of the new Nissans do come from the factory with this HID xenon headlights. When I asked about retro fitting my 95 Pathfinder he cautioned me against do it. He said there is a wiring issue that can cause trouble if the car is not wired for these new bulbs. He didn't elaborate, so I'm taking what he said with a grain of salt.

Joe

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:24 pm

If YOU can't see at night without 'em -- that's YOUR problem. If I can't see because they are coming at me and blinding me, that's gonna BE YOUR problem...

Why do you think I still have my buggy whip...???

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:47 pm

BlaineG wrote: . Properly aim them after installation and you will be amazed how much better you can see, and you won't hack off the oncoming traffic.

Blaine, the problem is not with my headlights. It's the idiots on road with those lights who DONT aim them properly, and there isnt much I can do about how OTHER people aim their headlights, is there? Even from the factory, tall vehicles such as pickups will blind oncoming traffic in automobiles. I am sick and tired of the confounded things and will do all I can to get legislation passed banning them.

Might have to whack someone a few times with my buggy whip.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:03 pm

Wow! I can't even ask questions about headlights without starting a fight. This is ridiculous.

jnyork, your comments remind me of the snooty shot gunners who want to ban handguns because they have no sporting purposes. Ridiculous is an understatement.

Perhaps we all should go back to horse drawn buggies with oil lamps on each corner. Would that sooth you guys that hate these new lights?

I'm done with this thread, might as well lock it down.

J

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J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:18 pm

I lied .... I'm mad now. ANY TYPE OF HEADLIGHT ... INCANDESCENT ... HALOGEN ... HID XENON ..........ALL OF THEM WILL BLIND ON COMING DRIVERS IF THEY ARE MISS ALIGNED!

FOR CRYING OUT FREAKING LOUD GUYS ... PASS LEGISLATION TO BAN THEM. COME ON NOW. JNYORK, PERHAPS YOU SHOULD JUST STAY AT HOME ... PICK ONE, AND THAT WAY YOU WON'T BE INCONVENIENCED BY THOSE OF US WHO WANT TO SEE WHAT THE BLOODY HELL IS IN FRONT OF US.

As I said above I'm driving a lot more at night now than I used to and at 58 yo I'd like to see what I'm about to run over. Yes ... about to run over. You see I got shanghaied into being my wife's back up pizza driver on the weekends and there is a certain race of people who have dark skin and insist on wearing dark clothing at night. These .... denizens of the dark flat out insist on running out in front of drivers in the darkest of areas.
I really do want to make sure I center punch the suckers so they don't suffer too much. For that I need better headlights.

You know .... kind of like jack lighting deer ......

Joe

Joewhoisworriedandstressedabouthisbrotherwhoisinsurgerynow.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:32 pm

From what I've the wiring issue is real. You'll need to run a heavier wire to the lights from the battery with a fuse and use your existing lights to control the relay. The HIDs use quite a bit more juice.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:50 pm

Joe, for most people those lights are a inconvenience for some people they are costly and deadly, because I have to drive at night hauling stock I had a spot light installed on the driverside of the cab that way I could light up the barrow pits on both sides of the road to check for wildlife cut down to zero on wreaks then these blue light specials come along and adjusted right or not they are blinding to those approaching and wildlife go stupid because of the color band they emit heck I had to hang a cattle guard off the front of the truck when a deer can go thru your radiator and inter cooler and fan it runs about 6K to fix a cummins diesel. If its a elk or moose somebodies going to get hurt and a buffalo/range cattle will kill you. And seems like those blue light boys cause they have that wonderful vision like to drive fast 70 and 80 at night with wildlife and range cattle all over it can drive a man to drink. danny

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:58 pm

Joe.....Uh, no one's mad and there is no fight (that I know of)

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:03 pm

Seems like another case of technology overrunning the human condition... Oh, and the "blue" lights are next to useless in a fog or heavy snowstorm. Both of which we get with some regularity around here...

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:08 pm

I changed out to Sylvania SilverStar on the Motorcycle and they add about a fifty% improvement to the distance I can make out stuff. I'm really sorry for the jerks out there, but I'm going to Legally see at night.
Like someone said, the first 3 or 4 feet of a SuperDuty Turbo Diesel is half the cost of a truck

Cliff · Post by **Cliff** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:00 pm

I don't worry too much, only problem I have with head lights is when I switch on the high beams the recoil causes my old truck to slow down. Here in Florida during Snow Bird season, I believe it is the rule always drive with high beams on. When another car approaches from front or rear, aim for the side of the road. When coming up to a bridge or narrowing road swerve to the center using the lane marker for a guide. One foot on the gas and one on the brake, don't use turn signals until you are at least 3/4 way through the turn. Gotta love the old drivers, can't see at night but still have their drivers licenses. Good Luck on the HID lights. I liked the old ones which used an incandesent light bulb. Have a great day.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:13 pm

J Miller wrote:I lied .... I'm mad now.
FOR CRYING OUT FREAKING LOUD GUYS ... PASS LEGISLATION TO BAN THEM. COME ON NOW. JNYORK, PERHAPS YOU SHOULD JUST STAY AT HOME ... PICK ONE, AND THAT WAY YOU WON'T BE INCONVENIENCED BY THOSE OF US WHO WANT TO SEE WHAT THE BLOODY HELL IS IN FRONT OF US.
.

Joe, you need to take a few deep breaths. However, I dont really give a hoot if you are mad or not. Your selfish and inconsiderate attitude is that you are going to see better and to hell with other drivers who cant see anything at all. Really grownup of you, Joe.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:58 pm

jnyork wrote:
J Miller wrote:I lied .... I'm mad now.
FOR CRYING OUT FREAKING LOUD GUYS ... PASS LEGISLATION TO BAN THEM. COME ON NOW. JNYORK, PERHAPS YOU SHOULD JUST STAY AT HOME ... PICK ONE, AND THAT WAY YOU WON'T BE INCONVENIENCED BY THOSE OF US WHO WANT TO SEE WHAT THE BLOODY HELL IS IN FRONT OF US.
.
Joe, you need to take a few deep breaths. However, I dont really give a hoot if you are mad or not. Your selfish and inconsiderate attitude is that you are going to see better and to hell with other drivers who cant see anything at all. Really grownup of you, Joe.

jnyork,
PUHLeeze, lets not insult each other ... accusing me of being "grown up"?
My official motto is: "I may grow old, but I refuse to grow up".

Anyway, I personally believe those of you who hate these lights are making an avalanche out of a snow ball, or a mountain out of a mole hill.
No offense intended to any of you but I see the same things you do and I don't have the problems you seem to. And if wanting to see what's in front of me is selfish and inconsiderate, then so be it. Technology ran past most of us 30 years ago. I'm still in the points and condenser era and hate the computerized vehicles with a passion. But I don't have the gobs of money it takes to keep the old ones going. If I did I'd still own my 68 Impala I sold a couple years ago.

And if lighting technology is so awful bad, why are these lights DOT approved? Why is halogen lights DOT approved? Why are we not still using incandescent lights then? Probably because these lights are an improvement even though in each case there is some individuals who will misuse them.

As for the wiring question I think the dealer was trying to blow smoke up my behind. I've been doing some research on these lamps, specifically the Sylvania Silver Star versions which included actually talking to someone who has installed these bulbs on every one of his vehicles from his 83 Ford on up. He states there is a significant improvement of vision with these lights and no electrical problems of any kind have happened.

So, I haven't made my decision weather or not to buy a set for our rice rockets yet, but I am seriously considering it. The biggest negative I can see is the cost and the fact they don't last as long as halogen bulbs. This is a serious factor to consider.

As for taking a breath, yeah that might be a good idea. Oh did you read this: Joewhoisworriedandstressedabouthisbrotherwhoisinsurgerynow.
Well, let me break it down for you:
Joe who is worried and stressed about his brother who is in surgery now.

So, lets realize that some of what I've posted here is tongue in cheek, and some is frustration, and most was an attempt at getting information.

Joe

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:15 pm

I didn't read the replies, but understand one thing, ALL the so-called improved headlights are designed around the FACT that the LAW allows a certain amount of WATTAGE for headlights, because the law never anticipated anything but ordinary white incansescant light. The "blue" lights, the H.I.D. lights, etc are specifically designed to cast MORE LIGHT than is LEGAL using a standard white light.
Now, why do ya suppose the standards exist at all? They exist to limit the blinding effect on oncoming traffic. Ya wanna SEE real good? What ya might see is two tons of my car wandering into your lane because ya blinded me......

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:20 pm

That's pretty much my thoughts on the matter. too...

FWIW, a lot of folks around here use the High-output Halogen headlights, because their intensity/brightness -- AND WARMER COLOR -- allow better visibility at night, IF THEY ARE PROPERLY AIMED... They can be a HUGE help in avoiding collisions with wildlife on the road.

It isn't just the intensity of the blue lights that bothers oncoming drivers, but the fact that BLUE light has a tendency to blur other wavelengths of light coming into the eye, making it harder for the "victim" to see anything at all.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:29 pm

adirondakjack wrote:I didn't read the replies, but understand one thing, ALL the so-called improved headlights are designed around the FACT that the LAW allows a certain amount of WATTAGE for headlights, because the law never anticipated anything but ordinary white incansescant light. The "blue" lights, the H.I.D. lights, etc are specifically designed to cast MORE LIGHT than is LEGAL using a standard white light.
Now, why do ya suppose the standards exist at all? They exist to limit the blinding effect on oncoming traffic. Ya wanna SEE real good? What ya might see is two tons of my car wandering into your lane because ya blinded me......

A-jack, so what you are saying is these new technology lamps that do not exceed 50 watts are illegal even though they are DOT approved? I don't comprehend that, I must be missing something here.

Buck Elliott wrote:That's pretty much my thoughts on the matter. too...

Well, I'm glad neither of you are in IL then. You'd be running over just about every other car/truck/suv in the state.

Joe

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:32 pm

I'm glad I'm not in IL too ---- for a huge variety of reasons...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:36 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:I'm glad I'm not in IL too ---- for a huge variety of reasons...

Yeah, on the serious side, I wish I wasn't in IL ... for a bunch of reasons.

Joe

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:47 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:That's pretty much my thoughts on the matter. too...

FWIW, a lot of folks around here use the High-output Halogen headlights, because their intensity/brightness -- AND WARMER COLOR -- allow better visibility at night, IF THEY ARE PROPERLY AIMED... They can be a HUGE help in avoiding collisions with wildlife on the road.

It isn't just the intensity of the blue lights that bothers oncoming drivers, but the fact that BLUE light has a tendency to blur other wavelengths of light coming into the eye, making it harder for the "victim" to see anything at all.

Buck, there are some special night driving glasses for you real old guys that make the night vision almost like you were 75 again.....

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:11 pm

If they are oncoming and bother me I usually hit 'em with a high beam wig-wag and they generally dim the lights if they can. Some vehicles can't aim the lights any lower due to the vehicle being too tall. Those are often stopped by LEOs whose eyes are blinded by them. I don't want to necessarily see them banned, just some common decency used in applying them. My wife's Honda has them, they are adjusted correctly and are not a bother to oncoming traffic.

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:31 pm

This reminds of what John Hay said of Theodore Roosevelt: "You must remember that the president is about six!"

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:42 pm

I been doing some reading, might be of interest:

Assessment of Headlamp Glare And Potential Countermeasures:The Effects of Headlamp Mounting Height
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DO ... 10-947.pdf

Visual Benefits of High-Intensity Discharge
Automotive Forward Lighting
http://www.lightingresearch.org/program ... 1-0259.pdf

Joe

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:17 pm

I keep saying I'm going to get rich someday.

I'm going to invent a device that will shatter every blue light and fog/driving light that has power to it (turned on) within 2000 feet of an oncoming car. Problem is, I'm such a sucker I'd give them out free to folks that wanted them...too soft hearted, I guess.

I don't know (or care) why, but the blue lights blind me and I hate them. I also detest people who don't understand that fog/driving lights are to be used when you are on the road by yourself and not meeting other traffic. My driving lights will light the road way on the interstate from fence to fence. I would be crazy not to know that if they shine fence to fence, they must also blind oncoming cars. I never use 'em. (One is broke anyway...don't get me started on city-fied engineers who install lights and plastic parts low-down on the bumper of a 4 wheel drive truck. I guess they never saw one get off the pavement before?!?!)

I wouldn't go so far as to ban all the aforementioned lights...
....but I would support legislation to make it legal to flog anyone caught with them on in traffic.

Pass that law and I'll go yank the wiring harness on my one lone driving light right now!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:36 pm

vance, umm don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

I have to say I do agree with you about the fog lights though. My Pathfinder has a set and I've yet to use them other than to turn them on to see if they work.

Joe

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:52 pm

I hate em!! Nuf said!

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:02 pm

J Miller wrote:vance, umm don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

I have to say I do agree with you about the fog lights though. My Pathfinder has a set and I've yet to use them other than to turn them on to see if they work.

Joe

Ha. I was just watching "Patriot Games" the other day. "This is me holding my temper, Jimmy-boy."

Like you said, Joe. We don't want to ban guns, just the idiots who point them willy-nilly. (I paraphrased a little

)

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:13 pm

Ha. I was just watching "Patriot Games" the other day. "This is me holding my temper, Jimmy-boy."

This is me using what is legal to see and be seen better, especially on my Goldwing

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:46 pm

I don't use headlights at all. Every now and then I let out a burst from the Ma Deuce thats mounted on the hood of my Jeep and let the tracers light the way.

Hey, this is the East Coast.-------------Sixgun

oic0 · Post by **oic0** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:36 pm

I'm only 26 and I cant see stuff driving down here in louisiana. When I'm alone on the road I can see alright but the oncoming traffic always blinds me. My eyes don't adjust as fast as they used too, I can only imagine how you older guys must have it. I think its the fact that every redneck down here jacks his truck up or at least puts bigger tires on it (And everything on the road is a truck just about). None of them know the concept of aiming the lights. I'm in a truck myself and they all seem right in my face. I can see about 30ft in front of my vehicle, beyond that only high contrast objects. Then my eyes settle in and I can start to see! but another blinding light comes by. BAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. I've gotten to the point where I hit them with my high beams and leave them on just to let them know what I think of them and to allow me to see at least a little. I'm sure my -6.5 prescription doesnt help, but I can see in my pitch black bedroom fine with only the light from my alarm clock...

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:39 pm

I hate the "blue lights" too. If it's an adjustment problem, it seems like almost everybody who has them on their car has them improperly adjusted.

Yes, I understand wanting to see when you're driving, whatever it is you drive. But, as the man said, "Your right to swing your fist wildly in the air ENDS where my nose begins."

More than 90% of the time these blue lights blind me almost completely. So, I should be blinded because someone else won't get glasses ? Or slow down enough to see the road while using normal headlights ?

It might be that some of us are more sensitive to these darned things than others, I don't know. What I do know is that, on a dark night a car approaching me with those darned lights isn't much different than someone snapping a flash unit in my eyes. Very inconsiderate, and very unsafe. I hate 'em. - DixieBoy

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:22 pm

Here's a concept for you...

DON'T OUTDRIVE YOUR HEADLIGHTS.

In other words if you can't see, slow down. I know that's a foreign concept to most people, to slow down for anything but maybe you should try it some time.

It's like an older driver once told me when coming down mountains in the big truck.

You might come down a mountain a whole lot of times too slow, but you'll only come down once too fast.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:22 am

One thing about the blue lights is that they look so much different than normal headlights that your attention (and eyes) are drawn to them, so you are more inclined to look right at them, increasing the blinding effect.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:35 am

claybob86 wrote:One thing about the blue lights is that they look so much different than normal headlights that your attention (and eyes) are drawn to them, so you are more inclined to look right at them, increasing the blinding effect.

Aha! Now that makes sense.

Joe

Mokwaw · Post by **Mokwaw** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:26 am

I don't particularly like them. But I don't think they need to be banned either, we have enough GOVERNMENT interference in our life now. I remember way back (over 40 yrs ago) in high school drivers ed, the instructor said " if on coming lights tend to blind you, shift your eyes and focus on the edge of the road, you tend to steer where you look". I have also slowed down when night driving, usually 5-10 mph less than posted limit, account of my night vision being less than when I was younger. There are ways to cope with almost any situation. Joe as for the black on black walking in the road in the dark, they are responsible for their own well being. Avoid them if you can, if you can't, it's ain't your fault.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:47 am

Mokwaw wrote:I don't particularly like them. But I don't think they need to be banned either, we have enough GOVERNMENT interference in our life now. I remember way back (over 40 yrs ago) in high school drivers ed, the instructor said " if on coming lights tend to blind you, shift your eyes and focus on the edge of the road, you tend to steer where you look". I have also slowed down when night driving, usually 5-10 mph less than posted limit, account of my night vision being less than when I was younger. There are ways to cope with almost any situation. Joe as for the black on black walking in the road in the dark, they are responsible for their own well being. Avoid them if you can, if you can't, it's ain't your fault.

I was taught the exact same thing in High School Drivers Ed. It works as well as anything when oncoming drivers don't dim their lights.

As for reducing speed at night I don't. I drive around 5mph over the limit most of time. (that usually puts me in the slow lane) Sometimes I'll hold to the limit, but I almost never drive under the limit unless there is something hazardous going on. I've learned that to drive that much under the limit creates a hazard of it's own. Drivers coming up from behind at night don't always have the visual perception to realize the driver in front is going that slow and can easily slam right into them.

As a matter of fact my oldest Aunt had too many tickets so they pulled her drivers license. "Most" of the tickets were for driving too slow and creating a hazard.

Joe

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:18 am

It's interesting that gun owners and 2nd Amendment supporters would want to Ban something because they "don't like them" or that they "might" be dangerous......

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:44 am

J Miller wrote:
adirondakjack wrote:I didn't read the replies, but understand one thing, ALL the so-called improved headlights are designed around the FACT that the LAW allows a certain amount of WATTAGE for headlights, because the law never anticipated anything but ordinary white incansescant light. The "blue" lights, the H.I.D. lights, etc are specifically designed to cast MORE LIGHT than is LEGAL using a standard white light.
Now, why do ya suppose the standards exist at all? They exist to limit the blinding effect on oncoming traffic. Ya wanna SEE real good? What ya might see is two tons of my car wandering into your lane because ya blinded me......
A-jack, so what you are saying is these new technology lamps that do not exceed 50 watts are illegal even though they are DOT approved? I don't comprehend that, I must be missing something here.

Buck Elliott wrote:That's pretty much my thoughts on the matter. too...
Well, I'm glad neither of you are in IL then. You'd be running over just about every other car/truck/suv in the state.

Joe

They are legal according to the letter of the law BECAUSE when laws were written the ONLY way they had to measure light was XXX watts, and they assumed all lights would be relatively equal if wattage was the same. The limits on wattage were INTENDED TO limit brightness (ya can't run 200 watt headlights) and failed to take into account the new technology that is DESIGNED TO create brighter than "standard" lights by end running around an obsolete method of measuring that doesn't take different light types into account.

if yer HID light is AS BRIGHT AS a 100 watt incandescent bulb, it may be legal, and all that good stuff, but is as BRIGHT AS an ILLEGAL 100 Watt bulb and is just as dangerous. Try riding a motorcyle or driving a low slung car and having an escalade with them bright sum(bellies) behind you, let alone in an oncoming lane..... They are BRUTAL! I HAVE been forced off the road by an aggressive driver with a high vehicle (F350 pickup) riding my backside and blinding me on the bike. I couldn't quickly twist both mirrors to deflect the harsh glare, and there was scant room, but I got off on a GRAVEL shoulder to get away from him. That is bad juju. NORMAL lights, combined with adequate following distance (another antiquated concept) works.

My most recent vehicle acquisition is a van. the headlights are not that high off the road, but they are higher than those of a car. I am acutely aware of that when following a car at night, and don't LET MYSELF crawl up their butt. Something about the ONLY rule we ever needed, the one we learned inkindergarten comes to mind DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:20 am

This thread just reminded me that I need to put 6 KC lights
on top of my F-350....

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:19 pm

RIHMFIRE wrote:This thread just reminded me that I need to put 6 KC lights
on top of my F-350....

Only 6? You sure that's enough light? I only had two on my Land Cruiser and they lit up the whole world.

Does KC still make the Daylighters?

Joe