Questions about .44

[Chas.]

I'm curious - why do so many folks seem enamored by the .44 Special? What will it do that the .44 Mag won't? Are they lighter, smaller, what? But it does seem like many folks have just gone crazy over them. I have 4 44mags - 2 rifles and 2 SBH's and I don't know what a .44 Special can do that I can't with my 44 mags. The only difference that I could possibly imagine is that Special ammo might be a lot cheaper than Mag ammo. I don't know. I haven't bought any across the counter ammo in 40-45 years (except .22 and shotgun). But even at that, if I was buying a new 44, a Special wouldn't even be a thought unless someone can tell me something that I haven't thought of.

[J Miller]

Chas.

You answered your own question in your first line. 44 Specials are built on smaller frames. They are lighter, more compact, and very handy. With proper hand loads they'll do 90% + of what a .44 Mag will do with less pressure, less muzzle blast, and less powder.

44 Special factory ammo is really under powdered and handicapped with inefficient bullets. Basically to be appreciated you gotta be a hand loader.

And ... no, I don't own one. Yet.

Joe

[Old Savage]

For those of us for whom 750 - 1250 fps with a 240 gr is about the right range with most of it being in the lower range it is a fine load in some fine guns. It is great in the SAA Colt and the Model 24 S&W. I have had four 44 mags and I just keep getting rid of them, Ruger and S&W. Did keep one. Just don't need the power as a general rule and one is enough. On the other hand more 44 Spls. My favorite pistol cartridge. And the one Ruger I do still have seems more accurate with my 44 SpL reloads than anything else. One guy's view.

[Kansas Ed]

If the 44 mag was so "special" then why did Dirty Harry state in the first movie that he used 44 Specials in his Mod 29?

Just prodding you a little...but I won't forget that line. Shocked me when I heard it.

Ed

[Pisgah]

It is true that the Special can be had in a lighter, more compact gun, and that is certainly a consideration for anyone who carries a handgun on a daily basis.

While there is no doubt that the .44 Magnum can beat the Special almost any way you care to measure it, it is something to consider that the Magnum is actually the answer to a question no one asked. What Elmer Keith wanted was a .44 Special loading throwing a 240-250 gr bullet at 1200-1250 fps. What he got, much to his surprise, was a whole new cartridge that did about 200 fps more in its original loading. Elmer was not disappointed, of course, but he always stuck with pretty much his original load, which is attainable in a good, strong .44 Special.

I regard such cartridges as the .44 Special and .45 Colt as typifying the tops in controllable, practical, useable handgun power. I know there are a whole lot of guns out there that can toss a lot more snort, and they have their places, but for the vast majority of people and places a warmish .44 Special or .45 Colt is about as close to ideal as you'll find.

[Booger Bill]

I probley can answer this as well as most as I have been a .44 special nut for many years. Below is a picture of six .44 specials that I own.
First off, I dont have a S&W mountain gun in .44 mag. I belive that single one gun might negate most of what I am about to explain.
The .44 special started with S&W from the old american. When it came out in the new century triplelock in 1909 it mainly was competeing against the .45 colt. The single action army in .45 colt had/has paper thin clyinder walls over the clyinder notchs. Reloaders looking to hot rod the calibers were limited with the colt more than the smith in .44 special with slightly thicker metal in the clyinders. Elmer Keith was the main first person to notice this-- at least he is most credited with his writeings about it. The case on the .45 colt is longer than it need be as it was built originaly for black powder.
Keith is pretty much credited for getting the .44 mag, but there were others in the act. Now YES, the mag is more powerfull than the special, no argument. BUT there is more to it. Untill the mountain gun came along, smith & wesson built their mags with the heavy straight barrel. They built the specials always with the tappered "pencil" barrel. In the same barrel lengths there is a noticeable differance in weight and balance. Its almost the differance between a "club" and a sweet handeling revolver.
Keith hot rodded the special to 1,200 fps with a 240 grain bullet. Now that is stepping out to the low end of .44 mags with a lighter sweeter handeling gun. -----untill they came out with the .44 mag pencil barreled mountain gun. However with full house mag loads they say the mountain gun just isnt that sweet to shoot compared to the heavier barrels.
Now many people feel that a 1,200 fps special can do about as good as a .44 mag 90% of what most people think they need a mag for!
I also own a S&W model 29-2 in the rare 5" barrel, .44 mag. I seldom use it, and like to pack one of my 6 .44 specials. Actualy I have two that I like over the others. My 4" model 24-3, and my 4 3/4" colt SAA.
Not only is the barrel lighter, but the clyinder is a little shorter also cutting the weight. The special got its fame years ago before a lot of the newer guns and calibers came out. It built into a "mystic" that probley is similar to "sweet guns and calibers" like the old .257 roberts etc. I love "sweet" guns. My definition of a "sweet gun" is one that is light, handy, and usualy in a rarer or less known caliber that will do the job with less recoil. I am done.

[Pete44ru]

For me & my purposes, i.e. trailgun, HD, & CCW, the .44 Mag is too powerful, so the Special is "just right" in terms of power & crontrolability, for those wanting a .44 ILO a .45 - AND, not everybody does/can/wants to handload/download the Mag.

.

[Old Savage]

That is nice collection of 44 Spls.

[HEAD0001]

No doubt the 44 Special is a decent cartridge. However I would go with the 45 Colt over the 44 Special. Basically because the 45 Colt can and will do everything the Special does, but with a larger diameter bullet. So for a hunting round I would prefer the 45 Colt bullet. The 45 Colt can be put in all the same revolvers the 44 Special is put into. And if you buy factory ammo you can buy 45 Colt ammo for less. And it will be in the exact same recoil range as the 44 Special. And less in some loads. And it has more loads available to purchase.

So you can load up a 45 Colt or 44 Magnum if you want or need to. You do not have that option in the 44 Special(as long as the firearm is capable of handling it). So for me you are limiting your performance with the 44 Special and paying more for the ammo?? Doesn't make sense to me. But to each his own. Tom.

[Booger Bill]

I bought them all when I lived in your town, OS!

[AJMD429]

For hunting, I'd want a longer-barreled gun, and not care as much about weight (or concealability), so I'd use my Super Blackhawk, even if I wanted a lower and somewhat more 'controllable' power level akin to a .44 Special.

HOWEVER, during a couple years of my life, working night-shift fill-in, in 24-hour pharmacies, mostly in inner-city ghetto areas, I only had two handguns to choose from: a Ruger .22 LR Mark II, or a Ruger Super Blackhawk. . . guess which I chose. . .

A Bianchi shoulder-holster did keep the Super-B tastefully concealed, since I'm sort of 'lanky', but I always worried about what if I had to actually use it? I'd have been branded as a 'Dirty Harry wanna-be' out to harm poor innocent 'victims' of their deprived childhood, who merely turned to holding up pharmacies in order to get grandma's cancer medicine.

After awhile, I got a .44 Special Charter Arms Bulldog, and it used an equally-effective bullet (for humans, not whitetails) at a reasonable enough velocity that the pressure didn't burst the compact, lightweight cylinder, or stretch the small frame. An added plus was that if I did have to actually shoot the gun, it didn't have the word "magnum" in the title.

Fortunately, although I was in two pharmacies during holdups, I never had to draw, much less fire, a firearm, but the .44 Special was FAR more appropriate, and I'm sure FULLY as effective, as the .44 Magnum I'd used before.

So. . .

A .44 Magnum IS 'better' when concealability or light weight or political-correctness is not a factor.

A .44 Special is at least adequate, and probably 'better' in those cases. (How many human assailants wouldn't be stopped by a .44 Special Silvertip to the torso....?)

The other time a .44 Special is preferable is when you just need something to hit the target, don't need huge amounts of power, and want something 'cool'...

[Sixgun]

Whats so special about the 44 Spl.? The other boys have just about said everything there is except..........When your hand is gripped around a S&W Triplelock, Colt Shooting Master/New Service, early pre-war S&W 2nd. or 3rd.model Hand Ejectors, or 1st gen. Colt SAA's all in 44 Spl., well, your soul is stirred like no 44 mag. can possibly even come close to.

Even post war 44 Spls give you a feeling that only a Flattop Ruger can come close to.

Its not always about being practical.----------Sixgun

[Terry Murbach]

I ALWAYS AM AMUSED BY THIS QUESTION. I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WHO EVER READ "SIXGUNS BY KEITH" ASKING A QUESTION LIKE THIS. I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WHO OWNS A 44MAG NOT HAVING READ ELMER'S WORKS.
I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE INTERESTED IN BIGBORE SIXGUNS NOT HAVING READ SKEETER SKELTON'S TREATISES ON THE 44SPL AND WHY IT WAS SO.
I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WITH EVEN A PASSING INTEREST IN OUR SUBJECT AT HAND NOT HAVING READ THE FIRST FIVE BOOKS BY TAFFIN [ JUST THEIR INTRODUCTIONS ARE WORLD CLASS GUNDOM THEOLOGY...BE STILL MY HEART] AND NOT WANTING A 44SPL WITHOUT ANY QUESTIONS WHATSOEVER.
SO....TO ANSWER THE QUESTION AS TO WHAT A 44SPL CAN DO THAT A 45COLT CANNOT EVEN DREAM OF DOING; WELL, HOW ABOUT PUTTING A 44 CALIBER HOLE THROUGH ANYTHING IN NEED OF SAME ??
THE VERY REASON TO OWN A 44SPL SIXGUN IN ALL THEIR SLEEKER LIGHTER AUVOIRDUPOIS SPLENDER THAN A 44MAGNUM.... HERE IT IS, THE REASON; SHOOTING 250gr KEITH LYMAN 429421 SWC BULLETS AT 950fps. IF YOU AND YOUR 44SPL LIKE 850fps OR 1050fps INSTEAD IT DOES NOT MATTER, BE MY QUEST. THE 429421 BULLET IS SO GOOD, SO PERFECTLY THOUGHT OUT, GOD HIMSELF MUST HAVE HAD A HAND IN HELPING ELMER PICK OUT IT'S DESIGN FEATURES FROM ALL THOSE THAT HAD GONE ON BEFORE.
AND SO IT GOES...

[2X22]

.... HERE IT IS, THE REASON; SHOOTING 250gr KEITH LYMAN 429421 SWC BULLETS AT 950fps. IF YOU AND YOUR 44SPL LIKE 850fps OR 1050fps INSTEAD IT DOES NOT MATTER, BE MY QUEST. THE 429421 BULLET IS SO GOOD, SO PERFECTLY THOUGHT OUT, GOD HIMSELF MUST HAVE HAD A HAND IN HELPING ELMER PICK OUT IT'S DESIGN FEATURES FROM ALL THOSE THAT HAD GONE ON BEFORE.
AND SO IT GOES...

I can add NOTHING to that!

2x22

[Chas.]

I ALWAYS AM AMUSED BY THIS QUESTION. I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WHO EVER READ "SIXGUNS BY KEITH" ASKING A QUESTION LIKE THIS.
I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WHO OWNS A 44MAG NOT HAVING READ ELMER'S WORKS.
I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE INTERESTED IN BIGBORE SIXGUNS NOT HAVING READ SKEETER SKELTON'S TREATISES ON THE 44SPL ...
I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WITH EVEN A PASSING INTEREST IN OUR SUBJECT AT HAND NOT HAVING READ THE FIRST FIVE BOOKS BY TAFFIN ...

So glad you are entertained, but my question stems from shooting these calibers rather than just sitting around reading about them.

[Terry Murbach]

I ALWAYS AM AMUSED BY THIS QUESTION. I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WHO EVER READ "SIXGUNS BY KEITH" ASKING A QUESTION LIKE THIS.
I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WHO OWNS A 44MAG NOT HAVING READ ELMER'S WORKS.
I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE INTERESTED IN BIGBORE SIXGUNS NOT HAVING READ SKEETER SKELTON'S TREATISES ON THE 44SPL ...
I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WITH EVEN A PASSING INTEREST IN OUR SUBJECT AT HAND NOT HAVING READ THE FIRST FIVE BOOKS BY TAFFIN ...

So glad you are entertained, but my question stems from shooting these calibers rather than just sitting around reading about them.

MY ANSWER INCLUDES YOUR ANSWER IN IT'S ENTIRETY, AND IT IS ALL, PERHAPS MORE, THAN AN IGNORENT QUESTION DESERVES !!!! IF YOU HAD READ MORE AND TALKED LESS YOU WOULDN'T HAVE EMBARRASSED YOURSELF MAKING THIS SILLYASSED STATEMENT.
YE GADS, YOU DO NOT EVEN GET IT !!!!

[AJMD429]

So glad you are entertained, but my question stems from shooting these calibers rather than just sitting around reading about them.

I hope it doesn't shock anyone, but I've read none of those classic works (maybe if/when I retire).

However, I have shot tens upon tens of thousands of .44 Magnum rounds downrange over the years, and I stick by my original comments, that the .44 Special excels primarily:

• when you need concealability, as a 2" .44 Magnum is still bulkier than a 3" .44 Special,
  (and I'd wind up using "Special"-level loads in it anyway, for controllability)
  
  OR
  
  when you just want a 'cool' (or as TERRY said, 'sleek') and classic gun you don't intend to hot-rod.

[madman4570]

I ALWAYS AM AMUSED BY THIS QUESTION. I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WHO EVER READ "SIXGUNS BY KEITH" ASKING A QUESTION LIKE THIS.
I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WHO OWNS A 44MAG NOT HAVING READ ELMER'S WORKS.
I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE INTERESTED IN BIGBORE SIXGUNS NOT HAVING READ SKEETER SKELTON'S TREATISES ON THE 44SPL ...
I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYONE WITH EVEN A PASSING INTEREST IN OUR SUBJECT AT HAND NOT HAVING READ THE FIRST FIVE BOOKS BY TAFFIN ...

So glad you are entertained, but my question stems from shooting these calibers rather than just sitting around reading about them.

MY ANSWER INCLUDES YOUR ANSWER IN IT'S ENTIRETY, AND IT IS ALL, PERHAPS MORE, THAN AN IGNORENT QUESTION DESERVES !!!! IF YOU HAD READ MORE AND TALKED LESS YOU WOULDN'T HAVE EMBARRASSED YOURSELF MAKING THIS SILLYASSED STATEMENT.
YE GADS, YOU DO NOT EVEN GET IT !!!!

Wow!(maybe a little over the top on that one?)
Chas------Listen up!
Its all what you like and what you want in a gun.
If you are going to want to kill big bad things that might bite you and aren't concerned that you dont require somthing like a little bulldog stuck in you pocket then heck ya get the .44mag(though they do have some pretty darn small .44 mags now as well)
http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/smi ... 22505.html
ya,I know its double the money(but its a Smith,not a Charter Arms?)and yes its 8 ozs heavier but it holds 6--- .44 Mags not 5--- .44 specials
Back to the things that might bite ya that are nice and big,
if someone on that issue tries telling you a .44 special can equal a 340gr .44mag going 1500fps (change the channel)
People are biased, and that is that! Its just what people like from their own experience.(doesnt mean it works for you)

Lets see, what I like best(me) not for you ,because only you know that.
If I was to choose one gun and one gun only and not talking for CCW--------from a .44spl/.45colt/.44mag
It would be a 6" Stainless S&W 629 (.44mag) But we all have opinions and there is no changing what I like best! Even with a whole library at hand.
Also a lot of guys as they get older(or some even younger)dont like the .44Mags recoil so that can be a factor(I aint there yet)
Anyhow,Good Luck!

[olyinaz]

Teach Terry, Teach.

While I cannot claim to have read all of the works Terry lists, I've been a gun nut long enough to understand that the .44 is just flat out too much gun in most cases and also in most cases (for me) it's chambered into guns that I don't find all that pleasing for anything other than hunting...which I don't do much of. I only own one .44 Mag these days and it's a big frame beast that fits the bill but the only reason I picked it up is because the gun shop didn't appreciate it enough to have a sensible price tag on it (my win, their loss - hey hey).

The .44 Special, on the other hand, is often chambered into nice, svelt, lovely pistols that I would gladly own and shoot. I've leaned toward the .45 Colt instead and when loaded to mild pressures I'm sure it's safe but those paper thin cylinder walls make my heart flutter sometimes! When you look at those lovely Smiths that the fellow posted above and consider that the standard frame Blackhawk flattop is chambered in .44 Special whereas you have to go up to the large frame Super Blackhawk to handle the .44 Mag, you begin to understand more why folks love it.

I'm pretty ga ga about the .357 Magnum to be honest but that's egregious thread drift.

Cheers,
Oly

[madman4570]

I know the lets say for example the Colt SA is maybe a little sleeker(for some) but I am talking about weight/length/height etc.
A Colt SA 6.5" weighs 40 ozs and is 11.25" long so at least in that respect lets compare them(with equal barrel lengths)
Now there is also the prefrence of those that plain and simple just like best a SA/DA? Honestly all things considered that 11.50" 45 oz 6" 629 Smith (seems pretty darn small at least to me,for what she brings to the table. or get one of these??(5 ozs heavier/1.50" longer than Colt SA)

A http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_re ... 44_033106/
Also here is your specs for a (Mid-Size built on the .357 frame)in .44 special below(then add the extra weight/length for another 1.5" of barrel length)
http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelB ... /5232.html


Guess for me comparing a .44 Special /.44 Mag is like comparing a .38 Special /.357 Mag ?

[C. Cash]

When holding my 1961 Ruger Flat Top 44 Mag., I have wondered the same thing Chas.(go easy on me Terry! ) I understand the nostalgia and having something a little different too, but I just don't personally feel the need for a 44 spec. in my own armament having that nice packing Flat Top.

[madman4570]

Well-------------- Here is some of Taffin's ponderings!

TAFFIN TESTS: THE .44 MAGNUM

JOHN TAFFIN


Some of my most Precious Memories are associated with the .44 Magnum. Colt, Freedom Arms, Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Texas Longhorn Arms, and Dan Wesson are all producing some superbly accurate .44 Magnum sixguns.
By the 1920's experimenters had discovered the .44 Special and until the 1950's touted a 250 grain hard cast bullet at 1200 feet per second as the ideal handgun load.[/color] All of this resulted in the .44 Magnum in 1956 with a 240 grain bullet at 1400 feet per second as Smith & Wesson made the sixgun and Remington the ammunition.

The .44 Magnum has done it all. It has been used to take every type of big game on the planet including Alaskan Brown Bear, Polar Bear, African Elephants, and Cape Buffalo. More often than not this has been done with one carefully placed shot. It can be loaded to 1300-1400 feet per second with a hard cast bullet and penetrate five feet from stem to stern in a Cape Buffalo. Loaded down to 850 to 950 feet per second with a 240 grain cast bullet it becomes a superb target cartridge. In between, a 240 to 265 grain bullet at 1300 feet per second makes an excellent silhouette load. With some of the new bullet designs we even finally have defensive loads for the .44 Magnum that will do the job without overzealous penetration.

This bullet shoots superbly with the `standard' #2400 load of 22.0 grains for 1480 feet per second; 25.0 grains of WW296 or H110 or 24.0 grains of H4227 for 1400 feet per second; or 21.5 grains of AA#9 for a slightly milder shooting 1365 feet per second. All of these loads will do less than one-inch at 25 yards with a good sixgun in good hands backed up by good eyes.

It is the 300 grain bullets that really have turned the .44 Magnum into a superb hunting pistol as well as an extremely accurate long-range sixgun. One of my favorite heavyweight bullets is NEI's #295.429GC. As the number indicates, this bullet weighs in just under 300 grains and wears a gas check and I have yet to find a .44 Magnum sixgun that won't sing with this load. My favortie loads for this bullet are 21.5 grains of WW296 or H110 for 1300 to 1400 feet per second and superb accuracy and maximum penetration, or 10.0 grains of Unique for a more sedate and easier to shoot 1150 feet per second. The latter makes an excellent load for deer-sized game without giving excessive felt recoil. Bull-X has a new 300 grain bullet and the same charge of 10.0 grains of Unique also gives 1150 feet per second and a good shootin' load.

Forty-four Magnum sixguns do not have to be run at full bore to afford great pleasure. Some of my favorite loads are in the moderate to mild category. The above mentioned 295 grain bullet at 1150 feet per second is a sweet shootin' load to say the least. The same powder charge, 10.0 grains of Unique under a 250 grain cast bullet gives around 1170 feet per second and like its bigger brother is certainly adequate for most sixgun use including deer-sized game.

As we rapidly approach the twenty-first century, I see increased popularity for the .44 Magnum. It made handgun hunting a viable part of handgunning, has few equals as a long-range sixgun cartridge and can be loaded down to midrange levels that still deliver superb accuracy. It would be hard to not consider it the all around sixgun cartridge.
Terry----How bout reading this page
Brother, no kidding aside, I am just funning ya and thats whats so cool about guns(like women)we can all pick the one(one's) we like!
A SA .44 special is a fantastic gun thats done about everything and deserves respect as you deserve my friend respect also ! Good Shooting Pards!

[two bit okie]

one aspect of this question not mentioned is some of us have large hands. all four of my vaquero 44's have dragoon grips because the XR-3 grip frame is too small for my hands. If I have to add the weight of the steel grip frame, I may as well have the bigger gun. Also I am a dinosaur and dont like little guns. Since I cast and load a 318 gr beer keg, I dont want to mix them up.

[NonPCnraRN]

When I held one of the Lipseys 44 spl Flattops I found that it weighed about the same as my SBH. The Ruger website lists both the 44 spl Blackhawk with a steel grip frame and the SBH at 45 oz. The 45 Colt with the aluminum gripframe weighs 36 oz. I realize some of that is due to the larger bore and cylinder chamber size of the 45 Colt but I believe most of the difference is due to the difference in the 2 types of grip frame materials. I did feel different in my hand though. It is an intangible quality, the gun just felt better in my hand. I have small hands and I liked the Flattop's grip better, just like I prefer the NV grip to the SBH grip. I know this is going to be contrary (I put on my Nomex underwear so flame away), but I would like to see the 44 spl Blackhawk offered with the grip frame made of aluminum like the Blackhawk. I believe that for a PPP, the NV size grip frame made of aluminum would allow the 44 spl to be a sleek and much lighter handgun than the SBH/44 spl Flattop. If one is shooting the loads Terry suggested wouldn't it make more sense to have it in a gun that you could carry on your hip all day and not notice it was there? I KNOW FOR YEARS EVERYONE WANTED A STEEL GRIP FRAME, but why not offer both styles as an option for those who will pack the gun a lot more than shoot it? For those of us getting up there in years with arthritis in our hips and other joints, a gun that weights 36 oz is a lot less noticable than one that weighs 45 oz at the end of the day. So to answer the original question I believe it has more to do with the shooting platform matched to the rounds they shoot. For 250-255 gr loads in the 900-950 fps range whether 44 spl or 45 Colt an aluminum XR3 gripped medium frame gun would be perfect. I know others would want the steel grip frame, that is why there should be a choice. But to compare it to a SBH would be like comparing a NV with standard 45 Colt loads to the original Vaquero with Blackhawk only loads. Each has a niche of its own.

[jkbrea]

THE VERY REASON TO OWN A 44SPL SIXGUN IN ALL THEIR SLEEKER LIGHTER AUVOIRDUPOIS SPLENDER THAN A 44MAGNUM......

Wow, had to look that one up.