The 30-30

[Bigahh]

I recently volunteered to take 4 classes of Hunters safety Graduates to the Rifle Range, this happened on 4 different occasions the last 2 weeks. The Graduates were mostly 12 year olds with a surprising 40% Girls. I brought along a 1984 Winchester 30-30, and there were also some single shot 22 Long Rifles available. All the Kids fired the single shots, and if any wanted they could try out the 30-30 as many chose to do. I was bothered by the lead Instructor explaining to the kids that a 30-30 is a good deer round if you did your part. I probably stepped on a few toes, but I corrected him stating a poorly placed shot with "ANY" rifle is just that. Was I wrong? I believe he was giving the young shooters the OK to make a bad shot with a larger rifle. I read the same statement many times by gun writers, and it bothers me. I don't believe the 30-30 is any less potent than some of the bigger calibers. A poor shot is a poor shot no matter the caliber. I was raised thinking we owe it to the animal to pass up "bad" shots.

[J Miller]

You are quite correct. A bad shot with any rifle is a bad shot. A good shot is what's needed to bring down the game.

I've read that the Win 94 30-30 is a riflemans rifle because it is able to do just about anything in the hands of an experienced rifleman.

But I think it's a right fine tool for any shooter. As long as they practice putting their shots where they count.

Joe

[Old Savage]

Semantics or how you take the meaning - sounds like both your statement and his were correct.

[horsesoldier03]

IMO your exactly right! Too many people like to discount the 30-30. The fact is, it is an excellent choice for whitetail at moderate ranges for the NOVICE as well as the EXPERIANCED!

Here is a pic of my daughter with her 1st Doe taken with my Marlin 336 30-30.

[wilko]

how was he saying it was oke to make a bad shot with a bigger rifle ? sounds to me he said nothing wrong. And neither did you.

dont take this as a flame but I would have asked him in private and not in front of a group of people...

[Griff]

Semantics or how you take the meaning - sounds like both your statement and his were correct.

+1

I've said the same thing as that instructor, but try to clarify that it really means "knowing the range to the target and your cartridge's ballistics." It applies to them all, from the .22Short to the .600Nitro!

[Old Savage]

horse soldier - isn't that exactly what the instructor said?????

[horsesoldier03]

horse soldier - isn't that exactly what the instructor said?????

After re-reading the statement, yes I beleive he was. However, when adding the statement as long as you do your part tends to make most think of it as a handicap statement. The fact is as many have already stated, you have to do your part with any rifle.

[AJMD429]

I interpreted his comment as that the .30-30 is a good deer rifle, with the caution that 'you have to do your part', i.e. "Don't just grab a .30-30 and go blasting away; learn to shoot the gun first..."

I agree on the frustration with guys who just go and buy a mega-short, ultra-belted, hyper-shock loudenboomer, and assume that with one or two 'sight-in' shots at 25 yards on a piece of cardboard, they are entitled to shoot a 225-yard deer pretty much anywhere in the torso, as long as it's not running too fast... The .500 S&W Handi-rifles are selling like hotcakes around here in Indiana, to clowns who have been hunting with 7mm Remington Magnums up until now, but heard there are actually 'legal' rifles you can now use. They stumble into the gun store, ask about 'deer rifles', and are usually shown a Marlin in .44 Mag, which they don't want, because it "costs too much for a little pipsqueak gun like that". Then the store owner shows them a Rossi, and they don't like it because they want a 12x scope on it (...it must help on those 225-yard running shots...). About then, they're getting mental overload, and want to just buy something and get out of the store, so they spot a Handi in .500 S&W Mag, and buy that, but expressing nervousness as to how it will be difficult "to get off a second or third shot very fast, if you need to". Some of the high-rollers will then opt for a .450 SOCOM or some such.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing improper about hunting whitetail with a .500 S&W, or a .450 SOCOM, but it's overhearing the conversations leading up to some of these guys purchasing those guns (usually the day before gun season opens) that riles me.

[Old Savage]

30-30 is a great cartridge within it's limitations. So is the 243.

[El Chivo]

Too many people like to discount the 30-30.

Well that's better than paying full price, that's why I like the Big 5.

Seriously, I like the 30-30 but out here most shots at deer are long. And they're rare enough that you don't want to go out under-prepared. That probably wasn't the case in the olden days but then we have indoor plumbing so I guess it balances out.

[Marlin32]

OR the guy has a bias against the 30/30 and it was a backhanded snide comment.

[Charles]

I am OK with what the instructor said. Those kids just took it the way it was said and their minds didn't run into all the other implications that a knowledgeable adult's mind would. A 12 year old isn't as complex and a 40 year old.

[Mutt]

A good many years back, folks hunted game, stalked game and hopefuly took home some food. Now days most of us sit very still waiting for game to pass by going to the feed bucket we put out a before. , But if we don't sit still , and know where every one is mostly , we could get shot. Kinda' like that feller just wanting to get his " saddle off the deer that the other man shot!
Some changes in life are Great . But some ,,,,,,,,,,,,
Have some fun out there "safetly ",that's what I hope I can do .
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Mutt,,,,,,,,

[t.r.]

The ongoing myth: 30-30 is an okay brush gun for shooting deer up close. But a real hunter chooses a 30-06. Unfortunately this myth is widespread across USA.

My experience with plain 150 or 170 grain ammo by Winchester, FEDERAL, and Remington has shown that nearly instant kills are predictable within approx 150 yards or so. Beyond this distance, the wound channel tends to shrink in size. Hornady's new ammo is designed to produce flatter trajectory and better bullet performance beyond 200 yards or so. Whether it becomes a bigger seller than plain ammo will be determined by hunters.

I began hunting with a 30-30 carbine in 1968 and have never "graduated" to a 30-06 because of no perceived need to do so. I've allowed several youths over the years to borrow my 30-30 after much target practice. Their experiences may help continue 30-30 sales.

TR

[Markbo]

AJMD429 - I have heard many memorable, funny, scary and infuriating conversations in gun stores. Many silly things are said on both sides of the counter.

But I must admit that until recently I thought of the .30-30 as useful only to a handful of hardcore brush busters. Everywhere I hunt in Texas you may have a 60 yard shot or you may have a 300 yard shot. The .30-30 was not a useful tool. I thought at sub 75 yard ranges, I'd rather hunt with a handgun anyway. But I have changed my mind. I am 50 and getting older every day so while I can I am going to try to shoot my .3030 with a Peep sight out to 100-125 yards maybe and when I can no longer confidently use those sights I will stick with optics. Got lots of other lever guns in everyting from .22 LR to .444 loudenboomer. Surely a puny .308 from an old Savage or one of the rifles in the old and slow .45-70 might drop a small Hill Country deer

If I can hit it 2 or 3 times, huh?

[OldWin]

What gives me a chuckle is that when the 30wcf was introduced it was not marketed as another 100yd. brush gun. They already had plenty of those. It was touted as flat shooting for extended range over the 45-70etc. In Maine I see many of the early 1894's chambered in 38-55. This cartridge was highly regarded here and still is by me at least. I would be interested to see if in the western part of the country where it's more open the ratio of 30wcf rifles is significantly higher.

[JB]

Semantics or how you take the meaning - sounds like both your statement and his were correct.

+1

I've said the same thing as that instructor, but try to clarify that it really means "knowing the range to the target and your cartridge's ballistics." It applies to them all, from the .22Short to the .600Nitro!

I've said the same thing myself.

[L_Kilkenny]

I'll agree that many shooters tend to minimize the effectiveness of the .30-30. It's a great round with plenty of power and great bullet selection. But I'll also say that some supporters of the .30-30 can tend to be a little thin skinned when it comes analysis of the cartridge. I didn't find much wrong with the statement from the instructor. In fact, what he said can be applied to any cartridge in the world. Would you of spoke up if he had made the same comment about a 7mm mag?

In general, you were both right. But I tend to save my arguments for the guys out there that think the .30-30 is worthless and insufficient. Amazingly enough there are plenty of them out there.

LK