A group of armed men. Old photo. Added information!

[rangerider7]

I'm sorry for the quality my post but it is the best I could do. This is some old photograph. I just think you would want to see it. There is no history or details. What do you think ?

[JReed]

Looks like a rancher and his vaqueros. South Texas or Northern Mexico either way the rancher is a Gringo.

[JerryB]

Who ever they are only a fool would mess with that army. Are some of the Winchesters 1894 models?

[FWiedner]

It's either a posse, a local militia, or a picture of a rancher and his hands for the season.

Then again, it might be the Brownsville, TX High School varsity football team of 1902...

[Griff]

Posers for certain.
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There's just not ANYTHING natural about that photo!!!

[rangerider7]

Almost all late 19th century photos are posed. There are a number of Texas Ranger companies posed the same way. I think it is a rancher and his vaqueros and they are preparing for a raid, range war, posse (one ranchhand has handcuffs), etc. I see mostly "73s", "86s", Colt SAAs, maybe a Merwin Hubert it is difficult to tell. The clothing and hats tell me this in from the late 80s- 90s. My best guess is a range war or posse. That is a lot of arms for regular ranch hands in the southwest. My two cents.

[claybob86]

Whatever they are, I sure wouldn't want to be on their list of objectives!

[BigSky56]

Maybe tribal police somewhere, no badges, bat & board building and every body got guns everybody looks like they have used those guns. They have their sunday goto meeting cloths on most wearing stockmans vests. danny

[Borregos]

That's a bunch of real mean looking hombres if ever I saw one
Interesting picture again rr7

[rock-steady]

I can't be sure, but it looks like the slim feller on the extreme right is holding some kind of semi-auto pistol. He's standing a little apart, like he wanted his pistol to be seen.

[rangerider7]

rock-steady, I to noticed that. It looks like it could be a Luger.

[C. Cash]

It's either a posse, a local militia, or a picture of a rancher and his hands for the season.

Then again, it might be the Brownsville, TX High School varsity football team of 1902...

Great photo RR7. My first thought was some kind of tribal police in oklahoma.

[J Miller]

rr7,

Is there any way you could put that pic on flat face scanner. Or somehow get a straight on shot of it?

As it is I'm thinking posse or some sort of militia. Them fellows look like they mean to get something done.

Joe

[kimwcook]

They're sure proud of being armed. I don't think they're tribal police as someone would have a badge on and I don't see nary a one. It's interesting to me the majority are Hispanic or Native with a spattering of Caucasians throughout. Beings they appear to be fairly dressed up I'd think if the white guy sitting front and center was the bossman he'd be dressed in a suit. Or at least better than the rest and he isn't. Maybe he was making a statement he wasn't any better than the men he hired. Don't know.

[L_Kilkenny]

Just a thought and maybe my timeline is off but it may be a picture of a group of bounty hunters sent into northern Mexico to hunt down the remaining tribes??? Maybe all that is myth and Hollywood........

LK

[rangerider7]

Guys I found this photo on EBay. The owner has put some more photos on of this same event that happened in 1893. Take a look and see what you think. (very interesting)

http://shop.ebay.com/artfulmike/m.html? ... p=10&_sc=1

[kimwcook]

That just brings up more questions. The picture with the guys in chains show almost all of them dressed the same. Plus, the names listed below the picture would suggest they're not Hispanic. RR7, you're the man here. What do you think?

[rangerider7]

kimwcook, I'm just guessing but it could be the "Navajo War of 1893". In New Mexico and NE Arizona the Navajo could not get along with the white settlers in that area. Ranchers and trading post agents were constantly being raided. Those could be the christian names given to the captured Navajo off the 6000 square mile reservation. They could have got their guns and clothing from a raid on a trading post near the area. Many of the ranchers decided to form their on posses and go after the raiders. Someone from that area may know more. I study mostly Texas history. Great photos though.

[Jayhawker]

Looking at that ebay link, the sixth photo down shows a rider on a buffalo. I wonder if that's his regular ride?

[Mike D.]

Interesting, to say the least. I see at least one 1886 carbine and a '73 "Trapper".

[Mike D.]

That guy is a bit price heavy, isn't he? Sorry, but I can by CA saloon photos for plenty less than those brush popper poses.

[Mokwaw]

I'm not sure, but the fellow that is front, center also looks like he has a Luger. Notice the barrel ring front sight, and definite ring where barrel screws into the receiver, and I think I see the "ears" of the toggle bolt also......?????????????????????

[rangerider7]

Lugers were used by some in those days. That's Capt. Rogers with the Luger and Frank Hamer with the 94 standing at the left in the photo from around the "Turn of the Century".

[rock-steady]

Wonder where that Luger is today?

[GoatGuy]

This may hold a clue for this photo. Found it on the Oklahoma Hombres website. The man identified as #1, (Joe Bird shot 6/30/93). I googled that name and date and found the following info at this site; http://oklahombres.org/eve/forums/a/tpc ... 6310371141. Here are the names of some of the Native Americans (Indians), who were executed in Indian Territory, and their execution dates:

Jim Allen (Shot 9/24/1894); Mitchell Anderson (Shot 5/6/1885); Arneta (aka Ar-Ne-Ta, aka Amneter, aka Younger Davison)(Hanged 9/16/1881); Atowah (Shot 3/6/1887); Walter (or "Walker") Bark (Hanged 3/22/1895); Sarpire Bearhead (shot 8/4/1885); Thompson Bearpaw (Hanged 1/4/1893); James Bird (??? 6/30/1893); Anderson Burris (shot 11/14/1885); Bob Talton (aka Bob Rogers)(Hanged 7/31/1896?); Frog Davis (Hanged 9/19/1895); Joseph "Joe" Dick (shot 2/16/1894); Chester Dixon (shot 9/10/1880); Saffron Dyer (Hanged 8/21/1885); Fred & George Dunawa (or Dunnaway)(Hanged 4/17/1891); John Frog (shot 8/1/1891); William Goings (aka Walla Tonaka)(shot 7/13/1899); Haney (shot 4/ /1882); Charles Holmes (shot 5/ /1896); Timmie Jack (shot 5/1/1896); Levi James (shot 12/14/1883); Eli Levy (Hanged 11/15/1894); Silan/Silon/Solomon Lewis (shot 11/5/1894); Lilley (shot 4/ /1882); Elias Loring (shot 3/10/1893); Ruben Lucas (shot 5/31/1882); Daniel Luckey (Hanged 6/9/1882); Sam Mayes (Hanged 10/6/1893); Sam Newton (shot 3/5/1886); Willis Pettit (Hanged ???); Tom Ponaska (shot 1/6/1893); Pulmusky (shot 10/9/1896); Satanoke (shot 6/6/1879); Saunds (??? 3/6/1887); Dirt Seller (Hanged 10/18/1877); Archilla Smith (Hanged 1/1/1841); Richard Smith (Hanged 1/25/1889); Shade (or Spade) Sunshine (Hanged 9/9/1887); Sway Back (executed at Crawfish C.H. (OK?GA?) ca1828); James Swimmer (Hanged 9/18/1896); Te-Ka-To-Kah (Hanged 7/2/1847); Tulmosky (shot 3/ /1894); Tu-Ni-Ah (Hanged 10/10/1873); Charles Walsh & Henry Hadworth /or/ Charles Hadworth & Henry Walsh (shot 10/ /1896); John Waner/Warner/Weren (Hanged 4/15/1892); John Watka (shot 1/31/1897); John Wheat (Hanged 12/3/1879); Henry Williams (Hanged 9/19/1896); Jackson Wolf (shot 8/1/1891); Young Wolfe (Hanged 10/10/1873).

Bird is the only one w/??? as means of execution. all others are identified as shot, hanged, etc. Note #1 is identified as Joe Bird in RR7's photos post. Don't know if there is any relation to this info and the original post, but thought it powerful interesting and coincidental. I suppose it wouldn't be the only time a first name was misrepresented during that early time.

Here is some other info from the oklahombres post, re: justice in the indian territory, indian courts and means of execution: Until five years ago, the Cherokees had their own code of laws and courts and other officers to enforce them. These laws were practically wiped out of existence by the Curtis Act and the Indian Courts were abolished. A few of the laws not inconsistent with the Arkansas laws, which apply here, are still in force.

Murder was a capital offense in the Cherokee country under the Indian laws and hundreds of Indians have paid the penalty with their lives.

In fact, the Cherokee courts did a land office business with murderers for years. Hangings at Tahlequah were very common. They came so frequently that the Cherokee Sheriff built a permanent scaffold in the jail grounds here for execution purposes. The old gallows still stands and is in perfect working order.

Old timers of Tahlequah say that more than a hundred murderers have stretched hemp from this scaffold. They have been hung singly, in pairs, and three at a time. The trap is large enough to "accomodate" three people.

The last time the scaffold was used, about six years ago, two Indians went down together. Since the Cherokee laws were wiped out and the Indian Courts abolished, all cases, both civil and criminal, are tried by the United States courts.

No hangings have occured since the change. The federal juries can bring in two kinds of verdicts for murder in the first degree. One provides for life imprisonment. The juries, now, always bring in a "life imprisonment" sentence for first degree murders. The court officials say it is doubtful if ever another man is hung in the Cherokee Nation.

Sorry for this longish reply, but found all this interesting, perhaps related to RR7's post and all these gathered and armed folks may have been on a posse to round up wanted miscreants from throughout what was at that time Indian Territory.

[M. M. Wright]

I doubt this photo has any link to it but, the Johnson county Wyoming range war of 1892 was fought by Texans hired to go up there and kill nesters. They were arrested and disarmed by the cavalry. J.J. VanHorn commanding. He, or someone made a list of the arms and most were 86s in 45-90. The list was complete with serial numbers. I know I have seen this report but cannot find it on the internet any more. There were about 50 Texans and their Wyoming bosses. I have seen pictures of those Texans after being disarmed.

M. M.

[C. Cash]

I don't believe the man on the right has a Luger. The barrel is too high, proportionally to where the grip is.

[Dave James]

I am leaning toward the Navajo War , in the one photo you can see behind the men 2 or 3 women dressed in typical Navajo dress, if it hadn't been for that I woud have sworn it was in Oklahoma Terriorty

[Lobo]

One heck of a fraternity !! Initiation must have been a bear.

[Ogmmone]

The older gentleman sitting is Capt. John Rogers; the tall man in the back is Frank Hamer; and the man on the right is my Grandfather, Robert Marmaduke Hudson. I'm not sure of the 4th man on the left. All four are Texas Rangers and the photo was taken in Del Rio, Texas. in 1907, reportedly after a shootout with bandits which all the bandits were killed.

Frank Hamer and my Grandfather were life long friends even after they left the Rangers where my Grandfather served as Sheriff of Grimes County Texas and Frank was City Marshall of Navasota, Texas.

Cheers,