OT - Received a rifle of historic significance

[86er]

My Uncle is active in his south Texas coastal community serving on the city council and with the mayors office. During a project to remove a large burm from a former church property and create a city park some historic papers were found in the old church building. In short, the papers stated the "Troops were moving on" so they "buried the outpost in a sealed condition within the protective burm" dated 1846. With this info, a special excavation team was hired and sure enough discovered a one-room building that had been sealed up intact and burried. When the building was carefully removed it was unsealed. The inside was in perfect shape as if it were 1846 today. There was furniture, paperwork, lanterns and some other stuff. In a closet, wrapped in some type of burlap or cheesecloth was a rifle. My Uncle and his partner own a restoration company that specializes in old furniture and dressings. His company was hired by the City to restore the interior contents of the building and another company was hired to restore the actual building. Upon completion, the building was resurected in the new city park where the burn used to be. As a gift for his part in the excavation and preservation of the building and the restoration of the contents he was given the rifle. He just gave it to me. It is a single shot percussion rifle. The bore is .581 with no visible rifling near the bore. The overall length is 55 inches. There is a bayonet attached with a mechanism to keep it on the rifle in the extended or storage position. It uses a special fixture of some sort that goes over the front sight blade. There is a full length wood ramrod that is in good shape. There's no back sight. The action works fine! I cleaned the bore and boiled out the nipple that I removed with heat and oil. The nipple seems to be a bit larger than a musket cap. I had a Zouave once so I had some .58 cal balls. I loaded 30 grains of FFg and a .58 ball in a patch. A tight fitted musket cap barely went over the nipple. The darn thing fired! I guestimated the ball came out at about 700 fps. There are no markings on the rifle and a dark brown patina with light pitting. The only thing on the metal are the intials Z.T. stamped into the buttplate (Zachary Taylor)? A state historian is coming by to check it out and compare it to the paperwork that was dated in teh old house where it was found.

[C. Cash]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

[20cows]

WOW!!!

What a cool piece of history!

I'm sure there are those who would be horrified at the thought of shooting it, but I'd right behind you wanting to shoot it next.

I'd call it "living history".

[86er]

I cleaned it again and I am not going to try shooting it more, at least until I hear what the historian has to say about it. But for that one shot I just couldn't resist!

[20cows]

It was worth it just to know it will shoot.

[damienph]

Fantastic rifle, I would like to know more about the building and where it can be seen.

[Griff]

WOW!!! I'm with 20cows! Boggles the imagination on the possibilities of is story!

[kimwcook]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW!!! I'm with 20cows! Boggles the imagination on the possibilities of is story!

Unbelieveable! Now that's about the coolest thing I've heard in a long time. I'd sure like to hear the full story behind all of it, especially the rifle. Who'd of run off and left their rifle?

[C. Cash]

The Mexican War began the year it was buried, but you have to wonder if it was used during any part of that Conflict. Thank you for sharing this Joe!

+1 Kimwcook!

[86er]

The Chamber Visitors Center in Rockport has a visitors map with all the historic sights in the area. This one is on E. Market Street by the old cemetery.

[Charles]

Taylor landed first near Rockport in August 1845 and moved his entire army to a camp under the bluff in Corpus Christi. Some of his men died there and are buried in the old cemetery on the bluff. He took him a while to get his army, supplies, artillery and livestock landed and rested. They had some REALLY big ox drawn cannon. In January 1846, he broke camp and moved his troops to the Rio Grande, where he first engaged the Mexican Army at the battle of Palo Alto. I only live three miles from that battlefield. I have a Mexican 6 lb cannon ball recovered from the battle site.

The time and situation of that building and rifle is very correct. It looks like a military musket and some student of such things should be able to identify it. What a lucky find.

[JB]

I wonder the the lockwork didn't have more markings, but time has obliterated them.

[Nath]

Joe, did it hit what you were aiming at?

Nath.

[cshold]

Joe, did it hit what you were aiming at?

Nath.

LOL Sir Nath, thoughts of a true hunter...

[1886]

Great story. Thanks for sharing, Joe. Anxious to hear more! 1886.

[gamekeeper]

WOW!!!

What a cool piece of history!

I'm sure there are those who would be horrified at the thought of shooting it, but I'd right behind you wanting to shoot it next.

I'd call it "living history".

Plus one.

[Nath]

Joe, did it hit what you were aiming at?

Nath.

LOL Sir Nath, thoughts of a true hunter...

Well, you know,,,,,,

N

[pwl44m]

Just when U think every old artifact has been found and there are no more Barn Finds They uncover something like This. Totally Cool, One would undoubtedly experience a sense of Awe in a Building Like that. Where could Your Mind take You and the Pictures You would encounter.
Awesome.

[jd45]

I'm right alongside Nath! How'd she shoot???? jd45

[jd45]

This question brings to my mind a story I read in the books relating to WWII. Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill was interrupted by an aid during that war, saying, " Winnie has scored a direct hit, Sir!", (Winnie being a ceremonial cannon named after, who else, Sir Winston Churchill). When the Prime Minister asked where it hit, his aid said,........are you ready for this?........."On France, Sir!"................first time I read this I peeeeeed my pants, laughing so hard!!!! This is what I expect the report of this rifle's accuracy to be, sorta, kinda. jd45

[86er]

The excavation took place several years ago, then the rifle was presented to my Uncle about 18 months later. He had it in a closet for a few years and I just received it. I used 30 grains of FFg because I figured it would be enough to get the ball out of the barrel without causing damage. It is clearly a light load but it served my purpose. The target was only 20 feet away. The ball struck about 3 inches to the left and 3 inches high. I looked down the barrel and put the front sight blade at the 6" position on a 5" bullseye.

[pwl44m]

One would think that as long as 86er has been on this forum that he would know the Rules by now 'ie' RR with pics. I know! He did give a RR of sorts " I shot it "

[Nath]

The excavation took place several years ago, then the rifle was presented to my Uncle about 18 months later. He had it in a closet for a few years and I just received it. I used 30 grains of FFg because I figured it would be enough to get the ball out of the barrel without causing damage. It is clearly a light load but it served my purpose. The target was only 20 feet away. The ball struck about 3 inches to the left and 3 inches high. I looked down the barrel and put the front sight blade at the 6" position on a 5" bullseye.

Thanks Joe, I'm sure you'll get it spot on, you stick at it.

Nath.

[Rusty]

Great story Joe.

Now if you could just fine the sisters.

[jd45]

Yeah, keep lookin!!!! & let us know when you find em........Who knows, they may be in more shootable condition, if you're lucky, & I hope you are! jd45

[RKrodle]

Hey Joe this ought to be great for hog hunting. Fire off your round then fix bayonets and charge!!!!! Don't worry I'll be your force in reserve.

[FWiedner]

That's pretty cool, and the fact that it's operational is double cool.

Was this a private or a publicly funded project?

You mention that they were clearing land for a city park. I'm sure that someone was grateful for some service rendered, but I'd be interested to know what authority the folks involved in the project had to give such an artifact away.

Seems to me that if it was public money, such artifacts would be "public" property.

[Mac in Mo]

I believe that to be an 1842 musket. If my memory is right, they were the last smooth bore U.S. martial arms. That's a very interesting story of the buried bunker. Are there any photos of that available anywhere?


Kevin

[Ysabel Kid]

Wow Joe, that's great! Congratulations!!!

[Griff]

That's pretty cool, and the fact that it's operational is double cool.

Was this a private or a publicly funded project?

You mention that they were clearing land for a city park. I'm sure that someone was grateful for some service rendered, but I'd be interested to know what authority the folks involved in the project had to give such an artifact away.

Seems to me that if it was public money, such artifacts would be "public" property.

Not if it was a "clear & remove any unneeded dirt etc." to bring site to final grade type contract.

[GregT]

Looks like it may be a sporterized 1842 musket. If so, it would be .69 caliber. If it does not have a rear sight, it is a smoothbore. Nice find!
GregT

[Birdman]

That's a great story and a fantastic gift. Thanks for sharing.

[C. Cash]

So, any idea about the rifle fellas? 58 Cal. in 1846 doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a standard American Military Rifle does it? Is it a British import? If one could figure out the bayonet model then we'd have the rifle.

[FWiedner]

That's pretty cool, and the fact that it's operational is double cool.

Was this a private or a publicly funded project?

You mention that they were clearing land for a city park. I'm sure that someone was grateful for some service rendered, but I'd be interested to know what authority the folks involved in the project had to give such an artifact away.

Seems to me that if it was public money, such artifacts would be "public" property.

Not if it was a "clear & remove any unneeded dirt etc." to bring site to final grade type contract.

I can understand it on those terms, but they felt that the rest of the shack (and apparently selected property) was of enough historical significance to attempt restoring it for display to the public. Was the rifle too old or too ugly or something? If this was a private guy clearing a lot that he planned to give to the city or something like that, heck, the shed and everything in it was his if it's on his property. But if the lot already belonged to the city, it is not some public servant's lot to be giving away property that rightfully belongs to the people of the community in question. JMO.

At the root of my original thought is that it's sometimes an odd path that history "travels" to present itself to us. How did it get to where it is now type stuff. Like how does an original Declaration of Independence end up in a frame behind "Dogs Playing Poker" in somebody's basement.

Do you think ol' Zachary (or whomever) missed his rifle? Maybe he woke up the day after they buried that shack and thought "Son of a ..."

[MrMurphy]

That doesn't appear sporterized.

While the caliber is indeed "odd", militias and state units had some really wild stuff in nonstandardized ways back then, so just about anything could show up. All the way till the Spanish American War, you'd still have some pretty odd stuff in non-federal units.

All early American muskets are modeled/cloned off the French .69 Charleville from the Napoleonic wars (sent over here as assistance, etc and then copied) so it could be a re-locked percussion model of something or a brand new model just in an odd caliber.

Don't think the Minie round was in use for another couple years, so a smoothbore it would be.

I'm not sure "I" would have shot it, but i can understand why. Be VERY VERY careful about cleaning it.. as a historical piece, even dirty, that's the historical condition. Don't clean off patina, etc.

[RIHMFIRE]

neat story.....i think i would have to shoot that too....
congrats!

[86er]

Some updated information: The historian thinks this rifle is a hybrid of sorts. It has some strong resemblance to an 1816 musket. However, the "brand name" conversions had a flat recess on the top of the lock and a corresponding flat nipple box. This one clearly has a rounded recess in the lock. Another feature that is uncommon among the "brand names" is the 4 pin lockplate. Most brand named rifles, whether converted or not has at least 5 pins and sometimes 7 or more. The other "odd" feature is the ramrod configuration. The rod is exposed for more than 3/4 of the length and it held in place by brass tubes that are pinned into the stock. The ramrod is also wood. Another oddity, the top tang bolster block is brass as is the tip of the stock but everything else including the buttplate is steel. It is definitely a .58 caliber smoothbore. There is a distinct lack of barrel bands. The curator noticed one slight marking where it appears there may have been a barrel band in the past. Relating this to the little house where it was found, this rifle is thought to be a local gunsmith alteration and possibly a barrel from one rifle fitted into a stock and a lockplate from yet something else fitted to mate the barrel. The little house had multiple uses: overnight quarters for visiting clergy, message center where you left a written or verbal message or package and checked to see if you received any, and a high-tide watch station. During times of excessive tide variation someone would stay in the house and monitor the water level. If it encroached on the market a daisy-chain style notification would take place. The burm was originally built to keep the high water away from the church building and divert if from the market. Since then, other drainage options are used considering the water has never been more than a few inches deep at that point. Back to the rifle - all things considered it was not military issue or militaristic. It was likely kept as a do-all general purpose rifle accessible to anyone using the quarters. Another possibility is that is was dropped off as a package to be picked up by someone else and never was. Either somewhat explains why it would be unloaded, wrapped in a box and stored in a closet or cabinet. The curator labelled the musket "historic" but "not historically significant" since it is of unknown manufacture and alterations were probable and it is not directly related to militaria. He also picked up on a ZT that was scratched into the wood on the stock. He cannot figure any significance of the ZT except someones initials or possibly initials for a Spanish saying or phrase. He is not an appraiser at all but he offered a guess at a sale value of only $1000-$1500 based on condition and the lack of identifying marks or certain characteristics. There are, apparently, quite a few conversions and alterations that were done by unknown people in various parts of the Country and these rifles are not really sought after by collectors and not as valuable as a brand name rifle or one with recorded history. He did note that a ledger appeared to indicate parcels were not signed for receipt by King, Smith and Alto at the time the building was sealed, so perhaps one of those people were supposed to pick up the rifle there. Could it have been altered by a gunsmith and delivered to the message center for the owner to pick up? Who knows? I have a bit more understanding of the rifle but just as much can be left to the imagination.

[Rube Burrows]

What an interesting story. Would love to see pics of the little place it was found. Could you imagine finding such a well preserved time capsule? Man.......my imagination runs wild when I think of things like that. Just imagine who might have shot that gun......its like he handed it off straight to you many many years later.

[C. Cash]

That doesn't appear sporterized.

All early American muskets are modeled/cloned off the French .69 Charleville from the Napoleonic wars (sent over here as assistance, etc and then copied) so it could be a re-locked percussion model of something or a brand new model just in an odd caliber.

Don't think the Minie round was in use for another couple years, so a smoothbore it would be.

The 1841 Mississippi Rifle as I'm sure you know was a 54 Cal. patched round ball gun, before many were re-rifled in 58 Cal. Minnie for the Civil War. Based on Joe's info it sounds like this gun is rifled, but missing towards the muzzle? The 58 caliber struck me as odd for this style of Musket, but just not versed on weapons that are Mexican War and before, except the Hall and Mississippi.