OT/Roll crimp for shotgun shells

[Gobblerforge]

My buddy just bought a slug mold for 12 ga. and we are going to play with some reloading. I was looking at Midway's catalog and they have a roll crimper that is run with a drill. I know how this works in concept but I have NO experiance with it. I was looking for real world advice as to use, shell prep and things of that nature. Does this thing have a speed preferance? Can you re-role a shell more than once? Does it work as well on paper as plastic? Often times folks have better instructions than the product so I came here first.
Gobbler.

[Marlin32]

I haven't loaded slugs, but I roll crimp all of my shotgun loads, in 10ga, 12ga, 16ga and 24ga.
Yes, you can roll them more than once, and in my experience, the hulls actually last longer than fold crimped, but depends on hull.

Fiocchi and Cheddite hulls roll easily. I also use Federal hulls, some I cut the old fold crimp off and load short hulls (have a few guns that are short chambered) and then roll. Have rolled new Federal Hulls, they are a bit stiffer than the Fiocchi or Cheddites, but they will work.

Tool and process you will have to experiment with. I would say I run my drill at half speed, but faster on the Feds at first, then slow down to half speed. It is a bit of an art, but easily mastered. Also, takes some use before your tool head gets "broken in" and it will perform better the more you use it.

Precision Reloading makes a fair tool, Ballistic Products Inc is okay, but not quite as good as the PR tool, and I have a couple of Italian tools that are better than both. If you can find an old Lyman tool, that is the one you want.

[Nath]

High speed is not needed as hand tools of old worked fine.

I made a tool to hold the shell. It was two lengths of 1"x1" clamped together and drilled so to allow a cartridge to be clamped. Some thin tin tacked across two ends and the hand clamping the other ends will hold the cartridge a treat.

Nath.

[TMair]

I have the tool from BP, it works ok, I only roll crimp my 10ga. shells, the only reason I roll crimp is to add extra life to my hulls once I have to trim the fold crimp away.
As Marlin32 said the Federal hulls are stiff, the worst I ever rolled were some older Remington hulls.
As you run the tool in the drill it heats the edge of the hull untill it can roll, I always just held the hull in my hand wile I rolled it with the drill, I have a Mec super sizer now that I think about it I should have used that to hold the hull, that would have been slick.
Anyway it is not at all difficult, and they do look cool, kind of old school.
Terry

[jjames]

I also have a BP roll crimper for my 10 ga 1887-1901s. My experience with Remington and Federal hulls I cut down to 2 7/8" was not very good. It took quite a bit to get them to crimp and the hulls were in pretty bad shape after firing. I called BP on this and they told me that wasn't uncommon and I sould cut off the old crimp for reloading. I went back to 8 point folded crimps and am pretty happy with that. I don't know if skiving the hulls might improve the roll crimping.

[TMair]

I never did skiv any of my hulls, but I can see where that could help with the crimp, most of my Federal hulls crimped ok for me, just had a ton of trouble with the Remingtons.
Terry

[mergus]

Guys, for those of you who take your roll crimped shells duck hunting....How do they hold up in wet conditions? I assume you can't submerse them, but does splashing get them instantly unusable?

Mergus

[Nath]

Guys, for those of you who take your roll crimped shells duck hunting....How do they hold up in wet conditions? I assume you can't submerse them, but does splashing get them instantly unusable?

Mergus

Naaa, if you like thumb some fat on the top card. I have used stamped thin leather before now for a closing card, better still when damp.

N.

[Gobblerforge]

What do you do about the space between the powder and the bottom of the slug?
What do you use for wadding if you use wads? Does the wad pushup into the hollow base from the chamber preasure? Does the hollow base still expand if the wad gets pushed in there? Does the wad have to have a hole in it for the preasure to expand the slug?
If I shorten the shell to remove star crimping, will the shorter shell still work in a pump action? Will the slug travel the distance to the forcing cone from a shorter shell without accuracy failing?
Questions are still coming.
Gobbler

[Nath]

What do you do about the space between the powder and the bottom of the slug?
What do you use for wadding if you use wads? Does the wad pushup into the hollow base from the chamber preasure? Does the hollow base still expand if the wad gets pushed in there? Does the wad have to have a hole in it for the preasure to expand the slug?
If I shorten the shell to remove star crimping, will the shorter shell still work in a pump action? Will the slug travel the distance to the forcing cone from a shorter shell without accuracy failing?
Questions are still coming.
Gobbler

Can't really help as I load a 690 ball in a plas wad or patch and fiber wad mostly.

There is no reason why a plas wad with petals cut of could be used.

Nitro cards 1/8" above and below the fiber wad should keep things in order.

The hollow base is more to do with slug stability during flight than obturation in the barrel.

Test rounds will show if your gun will cycle.

I would worry last about the forcing cone and accuracy and get a slowish powder. In 12 I like Herco. Faster powder mis shapes my lead ball to much!

N.

[HEAD0001]

GobblerForge-do yourself a favor. Go to the BPI(Ballistic Products Inc.) web site. And buy one of their 200 page reloading shotshell manuals. And read it cover to cover-twice. This will answer all your questions, plus plenty you have not thought up yet.

I only have one additional comment. You asked about space between the powder and the bottom of the slug. My answer to this is simple. There should never be any space between any component in a shotshell. And I mean no space what so ever. Space is the same as an obstruction. And you will turn your shotgun and shotshell into a BOMB. Tom.

[Gobblerforge]

Actualy I have manuals that I have read from cover to cover. Did my first reloading back in the early 70's and in the ten thousand or so rounds that I've reloaded I have just never played with slugs and I thought it would scratch a cabin fever itch. I was hoping for conversation and not a "go read a book". I understand there should be no air in the shell but something has to go between the powder and the slug. So I ask, What do you use to fill the gap?
Gobbler

[TMair]

Actualy I have manuals that I have read from cover to cover. Did my first reloading back in the early 70's and in the ten thousand or so rounds that I've reloaded I have just never played with slugs and I thought it would scratch a cabin fever itch. I was hoping for conversation and not a "go read a book". I understand there should be no air in the shell but something has to go between the powder and the slug. So I ask, What do you use to fill the gap?
Gobbler

The manuels that Head0001 mentioned are not just reloading manuels, if you have not read BPs manuels you have not read informative reloading manuels, there is so much good solid information on things like loading slugs, roll crimping, using nitro cards, things that you will NEVER find in a regular reloading manuel, the advise to do your self a favor and get one, or all of their manuels is good advise, I reloaded for years before I found out about BP, and the reason I found out about BP was because there where things I couldn't find out in regular manuels, and my search led me there, sorry for the lecture but it is not just "go read a book" advise.
Terry

[TMair]

Guys, for those of you who take your roll crimped shells duck hunting....How do they hold up in wet conditions? I assume you can't submerse them, but does splashing get them instantly unusable?

Mergus

I always just used an over shot card for roll crimping, the ones that I had where white, and slick, never had a problem with mosture, but as you mentioned I never soacked them, and to be honest I never kept them long enough to see if they would hold up for a week or so but like I said I never had any problems with them and I hunt in some poor conditions!
Terry

[HEAD0001]

I know how this works in concept but I have NO experiance with it. I was looking for real world advice as to use, shell prep and things of that nature. Does this thing have a speed preferance? Can you re-role a shell more than once? Does it work as well on paper as plastic?
Gobbler.

Gobbler I apologize if my response offended you, that was not my intention. But your statement above clearly says you have "NO" experience with it. I don't think I made that up.

The manual I recommended specifically talks about the questions you have. And is not the normal information you receive from most manuals. That is why I recommended the manual. And the actual company BPI. With so many questions I just assumed you would have more once you got started.

There are two good roll cripmers available. One from BPI and one from Precision Reloading. The one from Precision reloading does a slightly better job. Or is slightly easier to use according to most. Tom.

[Gobblerforge]

No offence taken here. I think the whole thing got mixed up as this was intended to be something to talk about. I don't get off the mountain much and some days this is my only comunication with the outside world. The book sounds like a good idea but to be honest, at this point in life and the amount of info needed, spending the money on an expensive book to just answer a couple questions, well that is what the internet and forums like this is for, for me.
Gobbler

[TMair]

No offence taken here. I think the whole thing got mixed up as this was intended to be something to talk about. I don't get off the mountain much and some days this is my only comunication with the outside world. The book sounds like a good idea but to be honest, at this point in life and the amount of info needed, spending the money on an expensive book to just answer a couple questions, well that is what the internet and forums like this is for, for me.
Gobbler

I agree completly, this is a great place to come and learn, and enjoy, it just seamed like you where interested in learning about this, and there is a lot of information that I think just can't be explained clearly on a message board.
BP's manuels aren't priced all that bad considering the information, they rainge from around $3.00 to $19.00, but they have a ton of information in them that you just wont get from other manuels, or message boards.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=16
Terry