On topic bullet alloy question.

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J Miller
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On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by J Miller »

I just got the 2011 Lee catalog and I noticed they have a 160gr GC RN .309" bullet mold available, (C309-160-R). Somewhere I read that Lee used 10-1 alloy to regulate their mold weights. I can't find it now.
Anyway, to keep the weight at 160 grs with the gas check, what common alloy would be best?

In the future I might just try this mold to duplicate the original 160gr load for the 30-30s.

Joe
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Cliff
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by Cliff »

I may be wrong but I seem to remember reading Lee uses a Linotype alloy to test their molds. You might be able to find something on the Castboolit forum. I don't know how it compares but go with wheel weights if you got 'em. A lot cheaper. Good Luck.
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by J Miller »

Cliff wrote:I may be wrong but I seem to remember reading Lee uses a Linotype alloy to test their molds. You might be able to find something on the Castboolit forum. I don't know how it compares but go with wheel weights if you got 'em. A lot cheaper. Good Luck.
Cliff,
Wheel weights cast heavier than what the makers list. I've found this to be true for all the Lyman and other Lee molds I have. That's OK sometimes, but for this I want to stay at the 160gr level.

Joe
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Chuck 100 yd
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

Joe, lead is the heaviest part of the alloy. Anything one adds to it to make an alloy usually makes the alloy harder and lighter. Lino being the hardest and lightest normal alloy used.
:wink:
I am sure you already know this but others may not. :?
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by Sixgun »

mmmm.....While all my moulds are Lyman, NEI, and RCBS, I only have one Lee mould and funny thing you asked. My one Lee mould is for the 200 gr. 44 bullet. With my alloy of wheelweights and 4% tin, the bullets come out at 207 grains. Its safe to assume, that for this mould I have, that Lee does use Linotype for the weight stamp.---------------Sixgun
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J Miller
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by J Miller »

Chuck 100 yd wrote:Joe, lead is the heaviest part of the alloy. Anything one adds to it to make an alloy usually makes the alloy harder and lighter. Lino being the hardest and lightest normal alloy used.
:wink:
I am sure you already know this but others may not. :?
Chuck,
Yep I sure do know that. I think when I get to the actual buying of the mold I'll email Lee to verify what alloy they use and go from there. I know I read 10-1 but I can't remember where I read that at. So until I can find that .... well it's conjecture.

Joe
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by BigSky56 »

Joe they use 10-1 its in the paper work with the mold, pure lead for minies and round ball molds. danny
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by KCSO »

1/2 and 1/2 Wheel weight and Lino will come real close in that mould. Depending on the bore you may have to lap it out a little to get a good fit.
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by J Miller »

BigSky56 wrote:Joe they use 10-1 its in the paper work with the mold, pure lead for minies and round ball molds. danny
OK, Thanks a bunch. I knew I'd read it somewhere.

Joe
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Charles
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by Charles »

I won't argue with the 1-10, but I have forgotton what funky alloy they used. We ran into serious problems with Lee doing group buys of custom 6 hole molds a couple of years ago. I ran three of the custom buys. I bought a few less than 200 molds from Lee. The alloy they used as a control, bore no resemblance to what real casters used. The results were, the molds when completed, threw bullets larger than the specs.

We pretty much had quit using Lee, when some small batch mold folks (Night Owl Industries and Mihec" came on line. They produce much superior molds that are dead on to specs.
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by J Miller »

I have two or three older Lee molds and I know that when using wheel weights they cast heavier than they are listed.
I have one of the 452374 (?) 6 cavity group molds that I got some time back that's never been used, so I don't know how it casts out.

I've purchased bullets cast from Saeco molds using wheel weights and they cast heavier. Saeco states in their catalog they also use 10-1 alloy.

All my Lyman molds cast heavy with wheel weights and of course they use the #2 alloy.

So, either I have to find out what alloys the mold maker uses and use that, or I have to find an alloy that casts out the same and use that.

Joe
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by Cliff »

The misconception many have on casting alloy is that a 1-10 tin lead alloy is very hard. In reality it is very soft and a waste of tin. Linotype alloy became popular because of its casting temps. and it fills a mould best. It also expands the most when it cools. If he is still in business look up his address, the antimony man. He has degrees in metalurgy and probably knows more about cast alloys than anyone else. I am sure he could set you on the right alloy or darned close to it. Another thing on Linotype is it is a hard easily cast alloy as the old linotype machines required fast casting when print type was typed. I believe the address was or is http://www.theantimonyman.com. I could be wrong. ATB
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by J Miller »

Cliff wrote:The misconception many have on casting alloy is that a 1-10 tin lead alloy is very hard. In reality it is very soft and a waste of tin. Linotype alloy became popular because of its casting temps. and it fills a mould best. It also expands the most when it cools. If he is still in business look up his address, the antimony man. He has degrees in metalurgy and probably knows more about cast alloys than anyone else. I am sure he could set you on the right alloy or darned close to it. Another thing on Linotype is it is a hard easily cast alloy as the old linotype machines required fast casting when print type was typed. I believe the address was or is http://www.theantimonyman.com. I could be wrong. ATB
I have his link in my bookmarks and it is still active.

I think there is a lot of misconceptions about alloys. I do know that back in the 30s Elmer Keith wrote about using 10-1 alloy being a hard alloy and good for heavy loads. Later he seems quite fond of 16-1 alloy. So just because it's a binary alloy doesn't mean it's soft. Having said all that, I'm not an expert on alloys, I only know what I've read. What casting I've done has been done with wheel weights and some unidentified lead a friend of mine acquired. It was so hard that a foot long chunk of it tinkled when we dropped it on the concrete. Made absolutely wonderful bullets.

Joe
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by Griff »

We tend to throw around these number 20:1, 10:1, 6:1 or 8:1 without regard to what the two numbers represent. I use a 6:1 alloy at LOT. BUT... that's 6 parts WW to 1 part Linotype. That makes a pretty hard boolit. Upwards of 22Bhn on my scale. If I was using straight Pb for the 6 part, well, it'd be QUITE a bit softer.

If you're using WWs for that lead number, remember WWs already have antimony and tin in them... firming them up a bit over dead, soft lead. So, remember to identify the product that your representing with both numbers... it'd be the only way someone else would be able to duplicate your results.
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by J Miller »

Griff,

The bi-metal alloys I am referring to is lead-tin.

Joe
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Re: On topic bullet alloy question.

Post by BigSky56 »

Joe, here some interesting reading on alloys and such. danny
http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm#top
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