OT - Black Rifle Opinions/Questions

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:43 am

Hobie's thread a few weeks ago got me thinking. I don't really need or want an EBR, at this time, but I'm starting to get that "gut feeling" that my ability to own one may be gone no matter who wins the election. Years ago I owned most of the Com-Bloc semi auto variants, but sold them off when my interests changed.

I want to look at this from a "speculative investment" position. I've narrowed it down to 2 manufacturers, Bushmaster and Rock River Arms. I've also figured that a "tactical" carbine or DCM Match rifle would probably be the easiest to sell when/if I was ready or needed to.

I would appreciate some feedback or opinions concerning the choices I've listed.
Thanks

centershot · Post by **centershot** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:58 am

AR-15's are OK, they're accurate, easy to shoot rifles. My opinion, if you want a COMBAT rifle, buy an AR-10, or better yet, a SOCOM-16. The Springfield would be my choice. IMHO.

centershot

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:14 am

I think your on the right path jdad. I'm sure there are other "Flavor of the week" manufacturers that are as good or maybe better?
I have two Bushmasters, a DCM and a 16" A3 "flat top" as far as an investment to sell later, you probably would have better luck with the carbine.
Most DCM"s wile very accurate are heavy and don't come with a couple of "Evil" features, like a flash suppressor or bayo lug. Unless you add them like I did

chuckles · Post by **chuckles** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:34 am

Both are nice but IMHO, go ahead and buy the best. Colt or LMT cost but a few $100 more but are top of the line ARs. They are 100% mil-spec and will never let you down, either in function or at resale. Sabre and S&W also good value ARs.
JMHO of course and as usual YMMV.

A word of warning here. BRD, (black rifle disease) is a sickness that will ravage your wallet and is incurable.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:24 am

Had all I wanted of them while serving with Uncle Sam, never had any desire to have one since.

cnjarvis · Post by **cnjarvis** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:44 am

I'm 100% satisfied with my bushy M-4gery. I'd start with a carbine and pick up a DCM variant along the way.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:44 am

Thanks for the hat-tip!

I've not given up on the idea of buying an EBR pre-coronation, er, inauguration but I'm pretty certain I'll be building one myself. I want my upper to be a flat-top with fold-down front and rear sights and 1-7" twist barrel. I want a telescoping butt on the lower. I don't care for the bayonet lug because I've a good idea how silly that would be.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:51 am

I have fired both the M-16 (selective fire - oh what fun ) and the AR-15. Other than the selective fire position on the safety lever they were pretty much the same animal.

As rifles go, they just don't impress me much. You see I was in high school back in the 60s when these plastic wonders were getting our troops killed in Viet Nam. I've read and heard first hand stories from VN vets who had to ditch their M-16s and pick up discarded AK47s to keep from getting killed.

As a civilian I doubt if I'd ever put one through the tortures of actual combat.
However if I wanted a battle rifle for TEOWAWKI I'd sure prefer one with a better history of reliability than the M-16 platform.

Lets see, something along the lines of an M1-A with all the bells and whistles would do just fine.

Joe

454cl · Post by **454cl** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:09 pm

If a person had the money a Colt M-4 and a milled bulgarian AK-47 would hold their resale very well and keep ones self well protected.I sleep well well with my AK-47 next to me at night.

jbm1968 · Post by **jbm1968** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:09 pm

The new M-4/M16A2 for the "new" heavier bullets are excellent weapons in a real world fight.

However, Soldiers usually have the company of other Soldiers and support that citizens never would have, so it may not be the best solution in that environment. The M-14/M1A platform in .308/7.62X51 is a better choice for the rifleman, In my opinion. The AK and all its variants are not the answer to either question, again, in my opinion.

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:26 pm

For what it's worth, there are a lot of outfits making very good quality AR lower receivers for around a C-note.
If money is tight, buying a stripped lower right now might be a good idea. You could buy the non-regulated parts later.
You might spend a little more to get an AR this way, but you also have the option of configuring it exactly the way that you want.
The ARs are very easy to build.

Jack

canonsix · Post by **canonsix** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:37 pm

I am not a big fan of the AR platform,to much exerience with it in the 60's and in LE since.I much perfer a 7.62 caliber so the FN FAL is my perference. My wife uses a Remington 7615 for hers. Doug

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:07 pm

Still can't get myself to cuddle up to one of 'em. M14/M1A maybe.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:48 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I kind of regret getting rid of my RPK. Once 7.62 x39 hit $150 I dumped it. I too would prefer an FAL, but was just thinking about the "speculative" investment that an AR EBR would have in case of another AWB. I don't plan on shooting whatever I get.

If bad times come my 12g pump works just fine.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:08 pm

I purchased a colt m-4 and have a ak-47 now. I am thinking of picking up an another colt or springfiled M series in 308. i very strongly believe that after the next election a PERMANENT ASSULT WEAPONS BAN will be put in place and these investments will appreciate substantially. Mine are safe queens not shooters.

Bronco · Post by **Bronco** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:44 pm

Longer than I care to admit I purchased the lower for an AR type. Could read the writing on the wall here in Kaliphorni.!!! Over the years I would buy a part that I wanted. It's heavy, but will put 5 inside a 1/2" black dot at 100yds. Thinking of what caliber is something I did not do back then. 223 was in my mind. I kind of liked putting the thing together!. Buy a barrel headspaced to the barrel nut and the rest is nothing but pins, bolts&nuts and torque. They've got some awsome calibers in that shooting platform now!
John

cas · Post by **cas** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:25 pm

Well then if you're just looking to fleece some poor sucker down the road, then buy they cheapest piece of stuff you can find.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:24 pm

cas wrote:Well then if you're just looking to fleece some poor sucker down the road, then buy they cheapest piece of stuff you can find.

You're out of line, to acuse me of trying to fleece anyone. IF I buy something and IF it appreciates and IF I want to sell it, I won't be forcing "some poor sucker" to buy it.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:45 pm

secondly -- quality always sells at a better price. Would you rather buy a smith and wesson or taurus in 38 for the same dollar?

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:18 pm

Let's see - the chances an Hillary or Obama administration will push hard for the renewal of the "Assault Weapons Ban" - 100%. Chances that they will sign such legislation if passed by Congress - 100%.

Chances a McCain administration would push for this - 50/50. Chances he would sign it if it hit his desk - probably 100% again...

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:29 pm

Rock River in the short barrel, collapasible stock, quad rail is a hot .223. I recently just sold mine. Went up to the Socum II in .308 with the quad rail. A lot heavier but the M1A is one of my all time favorite weapons. Used mine shoot national matches on the Navy Rifle Team and to hunt Deer with in the mountains of Virginia. Socum 16 is lighter by a bit. I prefer the heavier bullet.

H_Talon · Post by **H_Talon** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:41 pm

might I suggest a "piston" AR15 rather than a direct gas system ...

I have a 1000 rds thru my POF and havn't had to clean it yet ..

Talon

SoupOrMan · Post by **SoupOrMan** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:23 am

I have one of Rock River Arms' ARs in .223, and it's quite a nice little carbine. What I'm going to do (and this is one of the reasons I like the AR platform) is switch out upper halves and fire other calibers off of the same lower. If I want to step up to a 6.5mm Grendel or 6.8mm Remington I can do that. I can even fire 7.62x39 if I switch to a Bushmaster upper. And if I really want to thump someone at a short range, I can switch to .458 SOCOM or .450 Bushmaster, both equivalents to a middle-of-the-road .45/70. That's the biggest advantage to me, being able to switch out upper halves depending on the caliber and the type of shooting you want to do.

I'm very interested in the piston-driven uppers, because I really hate having to clean all that garbage out of the bolt carrier key after every range session, not to mention all of the other bits of the rifle. There's supposedly a decent conversion kit that you can use to switch over from direct-impingement to piston, but it's currently made for shorter gas blocks than what I have. A cleaner chamber and fewer jams make the idea more appealing.

Mind you, it was buying the AR that eventually brought me around to the idea of buying a pistol-caliber levergun for multiple ammunition use, in my case the lovely .357 Magnum and the ubiquitous .38 Special. I like being able to switch things out depending on the availability of ammunition.

H_Talon · Post by **H_Talon** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:45 am

here is a company doing retro fits ....

399.ea .. you send in your upper ... I havn't used or seen one
but I have an other ar I just rebuilt and want to refit to a piston sys.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b ... 4&t=362787

these guys @ ar15.com know ar's ....

Talon