You've found a time machine, ....

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:06 pm

You've found a time machine, it's got enough juice left for one jump, no return trip.

You've decided you're sick and tired of today's society and our ever hungry government and have decided to jump back to 1880. You intend to go somewhere you know the history of and blend in as you make a new life for yourself.

You've got your horses and pack mules ready but now you need to choose your guns and maybe a companion.
The guns have to be appropriate to the time and cannot be an obvious replica.
The companion, well that's up to you.
You're best friend, dog, wife - girl friend - significant other, your choice.

Things to consider;
>Ammunition availability; you'll have to scrounge up some balloon head cases of a brand made in 1880 for ammo you take with you,cos no modern cases are allowed.
>Firearm design reliability and longevity
>Parts and gunsmithing availability, or your ability to repair and maintain them. You can take spare parts with you, but they must be stock or visually stock in appearance. Also most replica guns use metric screws, that might be a problem down the road.
>Bullet casting and reloading supplies availability
>Personal likes and dislikes

Remember, there will be no rifles chambered for the .45 Colt back then so if you choose that caliber you best have a good story made up to explain it.
No short stroke kits, no cowboy loads, and sadly no modern Keith or alphabet bullets.
Any gun modifications must use materials available in 1880 as well, so no Wolff or Bullseye spring kits in your revolvers.

So what rifle(s) and revolvers and what calibers do you take with you?

Joe

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:13 pm

Ok, so let me get this right. We have to take a gun from today back then or can we get our guns when we get back in time?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:40 pm

I didn't say you "had" to take guns from today back, just make a list of thoughts and conditions.
There are however some things to consider.
First, modern metals will hold up longer than those from 1880.
Second, when the time machine dumps you back in 1880, it might be prudent to have a gun ... just in case.

Notice I didn't put my answer in yet.

Joe

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:56 pm

Inital thought for me would be 1873 Winchester in 44-40 Replica and Colt chambered in the same caliber. Working on it would be no problem should a problem arise and can ditch it for a new Winchester of the day when I get there. A Coach gun would prob. be up there on my list also.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:05 pm

Rube Burrows wrote:Inital thought for me would be 1873 Winchester in 44-40 Replica and Colt chambered in the same caliber. Working on it would be no problem should a problem arise and can ditch it for a new Winchester of the day when I get there. A Coach gun would prob. be up there on my list also.

That sounds pretty reasonable to me too.

Slick · Post by **Slick** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:14 pm

I'd take my Winchester 1886 take-down in .45-70 and go in search of John M Browning to see if he'd be willing to take on an apprentice.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:15 pm

I would be ok with : a shotgun and a colt pocket pistol if in a town. If away from town, an 1873 in 38wcf or 44-40, a Colt SAA to match and a 12bore shotgun.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:28 pm

well it would have to be an 1873 colt in 44-40.... any generation will do
alternate would be the Smith and wesson model #3...but would rather stick to 1 caliber...
Winchester 73 in 44-40 mfr somewhere just before 1925....last run...better steel
and no one will know the difference! Reloading equipment, components and molds...
and a 12 ga coach gun....my favorite hunting knife...
some gold and silver...to get buy...
a few sets of cloths...and decent coat...typical grub stake...
two horses...forget the mule...alternate riding the horses....
companion....none...just my dog...
and you can drop me of in Texas and I'll ride up to Canada and back again.....
and I would not come back even if i had the chance...

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:38 pm

I'd take a good .45-70 and a few thousand ounces of silver.

Then I'd buy few sections of land south of Beaumont, TX.

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:42 pm

Come on Joe...lets hear your take on it.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:52 pm

I'd take me a 10/22 Ruger and a pack-mule full of ammo (100,000 rounds should do), and my .45 Colt Redhawk plus a few cases of primers and bags of .45 cal sabots just in case.

If anyone gave me any flack about my 'strange' guns, I'd give 'em a taste of semiauto fire from the 10/22, and show them my time machine, threatening to send them back to the stone age with nothing but a stick...

SFRanger7GP · Post by **SFRanger7GP** » Mon May 23, 2011 2:18 pm

I would move this time machine to the next big Democratic/Liberal Party Rally, mark it as "bathroom" and see who I could send back in time.

oic0 · Post by **oic0** » Mon May 23, 2011 2:47 pm

I'm filling a backpack full of tablet PCs with the entire library of congress and all the scientific knowledge I can pack on them. As well as several solar chargers. I'm going to distribute them to the governments of the world. I don't like how the world is now, re-rolling the dice is worth a shot.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Mon May 23, 2011 3:34 pm

Only one trip for Me,and that is to go with Lewis and Clark and see the West and the Native People as it was.................... and They were before it was all gone forever.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon May 23, 2011 3:53 pm

1880, no 1886 Winchesters yet. No electricity or batteries for the library of congress either. The Ruger 10-22 won't shoot long with black powder ammo once the smokeless runs out. The idea was to blend in and build a new life. Not stand out like a neon light at midnight.
I think Louis and Clark is a bit earlier than 1880, but I can accept that.

Once I found the time machine I'd sell everything I owned and buy period gold and silver coin with it. Then I'd pick up a quality made cap and ball revolver to carry till I got from the dump point to a good well stocked store. Those were still in use as primary weapons well into the 1900s and cartridge ammo isn't a concern. Once there I'd buy a Winchester 1876 in 45-75 and a Colt SAA in 45 Colt with ammo and loading components to match. From there I'd head out to the Arizona desert and buy me a ranch. That shouldn't be too awful hard then.
I have the knowledge to keep my shooters in good repair and not abuse them and with a bit of boning up on the history of the area I think I could do quite well.

Joe

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon May 23, 2011 3:58 pm

rjohns94 wrote:I would be ok with : a shotgun and a colt pocket pistol if in a town. If away from town, an 1873 in 38wcf or 44-40, a Colt SAA to match and a 12bore shotgun.

Yep! with Mike on this one.
The 12 bore shotgun as first on the list, I know I'll eat...

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Mon May 23, 2011 4:06 pm

Well I'd just take two I got right here, a .32 DA S&W top break (they were brand new in 1880, and nobody'd realize mine was an 1882 model), an a current repro of the Colt SXS 12 ga.

I figure I could get whatever was needed, especially if I brought along 20 lbs of "magic" smokeless powder as trading stock, Har!

Chas. · Post by **Chas.** » Mon May 23, 2011 4:16 pm

Joe, you have way too much time on your hands.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon May 23, 2011 4:35 pm

One of y'all could have my trip....I like it just fine in this time, but not in my current place of residence. Someplace where I would not have to explain why I have fish and game of my choosing to eat all year would be fine, thanks (and the time and wherewithal to pursue them)

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Mon May 23, 2011 4:54 pm

You know, folks have romanticized "the good old days". Considering all the advances, especially medicine (without which I would be dead), not to mention just the easy life we live, I do not want to go back. I want to go forward. Say 100 years. I figure I could adapt. Hey, any one remember that old TV show "The Second Hundred Years"? Arthur O'Connell as the son, and Monte Markham as his dad.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon May 23, 2011 5:01 pm

With the way technology has advanced in the last 25 years, anyone from this century would be a functional retard a hundred years from now.

Besides it's hard to wax romantic about the future.

As for medical advances from now back to 1880, well, we are all vacinated against most of the diseases that killed folks back then and we have much better knowledge of how to keep from getting many of the then fatal ailments.

Yeah, I like 1880.

Joe

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon May 23, 2011 6:43 pm

Rocky mountains circa 1895 with a winchester 1894 SRC in 30 WCF. A week or two in the late spring or early fall. Thats about all i could last out there in that time frame.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:12 pm

J Miller wrote:With the way technology has advanced in the last 25 years, anyone from this century would be a functional retard a hundred years from now.

True, but most of us would be pretty 'stupid' if it were suddenly 130 years ago. Sure, we could quote all kinds of science and technology stuff, but day-to-day functioning could be pretty 'interesting' until we got used to doing all our cooking, building, and so on with zero modern tools, electricity, or engines. I'm not all that sure it would impress the ordinary citizens we might have to live among if we told them about computer chips, especially since we couldn't exactly make one from scratch. If you could find the scientists of the day, no doubt they'd be impressed though...!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:20 pm

tman wrote:Rocky mountains circa 1895 with a winchester 1894 SRC in 30 WCF. A week or two in the late spring or early fall. Thats about all i could last out there in that time frame.

Well I guess you should stay home then. Remember the first post, the time machine has enough juice for one jump, no return trip.

AJMD,
Well let's see, I can:

>Cook on a wood burning stove
>Chop wood
>Saw wood
>Skin an animal and gut it. Might not be the neatest job, but it would be edible.
>I can read and write English and comprehend it.
>Read a compass
>Read a map
>Travel across country without either and not get lost
>Swim

I've used existing computers for 11 years now and I still can't fix one or even feel confident about using parts of them or even installing programs. How sophisticated will they be in a hundred years? Gads I don't want to even contemplate that.
And given the PC, censored, big brother knows best way this world is coming too, I don't want to know what the future holds.

I do believe I'd be immediately moderately functional a hundred years ago given a bit of time to orient myself. Especially since I could do enough research to know the laws and traditions of the area I was going to. Something you can't do for the future.

I like 1880.

Joe

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:23 pm

I'm not playing. . .

I like my toilet paper, air conditioning, modern firearms and warm showers too much..

Besides - we've all seen time machine movies and you can't take anything with you. I don't want to end up nekkid in the middle of anywhere back then, let alone near a mining town or sheep herder camp.

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:30 pm

Might have taken a shot at the non returning when i was 19. Fortunately i'm a little smarter now. I couldn't make it in the 19 century or the 23rd. But, i'd be willing to take a weeks vacation in either.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:31 pm

vancelw wrote:I'm not playing. . .

I like my toilet paper, air conditioning, modern firearms and warm showers too much..

Besides - we've all seen time machine movies and you can't take anything with you. I don't want to end up nekkid in the middle of anywhere back then, let alone near a mining town or sheep herder camp.

vance,
OK, but time machine movies .... I don't know I watched Jules Vern's time machine movies the guy always came out with his clothes on.
I must have missed the ones you saw.

mouthpiece · Post by **mouthpiece** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:55 pm

Arnold comes out buck nekkid and has to acquire mcy leathers every time.

He'd bring his housekeeper/gf.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:55 pm

J Miller wrote:
vancelw wrote:I'm not playing. . .

I like my toilet paper, air conditioning, modern firearms and warm showers too much..

Besides - we've all seen time machine movies and you can't take anything with you. I don't want to end up nekkid in the middle of anywhere back then, let alone near a mining town or sheep herder camp.
vance,
OK, but time machine movies .... I don't know I watched Jules Vern's time machine movies the guy always came out with his clothes on.
I must have missed the ones you saw.

Joe, I'm pretty sure they have clothes back then, but nothing that would fit you and me

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:56 pm

Obviously this is fantasy and not meant to be picked apart.

I think it would be an adjustment. As much as I think I would be ready the times were harsh and I would have a learning curve. I think I could manage if I didnt get some sickness and die...which is a real possibility. Yeah, we know a lot more about things to not do and since my vaccinations are up to date maybe it would be me by.

I dont have any "REAL" horseman skills or skills with cows or anything but would sure be interested in learning the trade. May end up as a labor worker somewhere, just not sure.

Im afraid im stuck in this time though. I feel I was born 130 years too late at least....but.....I would not leave my kids no matter what. Im here....my bed has been made and therefore I will lie in it and live my life as it is.

Sure is nice to dream though.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:58 pm

vancelw wrote:I'm not playing. . .

I like my toilet paper, air conditioning, modern firearms and warm showers too much..

Besides - we've all seen time machine movies and you can't take anything with you. I don't want to end up nekkid in the middle of anywhere back then, let alone near a mining town or sheep herder camp.

they had toilet paper....they were called therapudic papers....guaranteed not to have
splinters or chucks of wood!

and they had the sears catalog too!

You dont need air conditioning if you know how and what to build...
and what to plant around it

They had warm showers too!!...they had cisterns on the roof...they collected rain water
or you had to hand pump the water up there....or carry it....

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon May 23, 2011 8:01 pm

My fantasy, truly, is showing up at the Alamo or similar situation with a M60 and a few M79s and have a blast. (the ammo never runs out, ala John Wayne)

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon May 23, 2011 8:30 pm

I, like some have already stated, like my creature comforts of this day and age. But, I'll play.

I'd like to have a '73 in 38 WCF, a Sharps in 45 2.1, two Colt SAA's in 45 Colt and a SXS 12 gauge. That'd do me just fine. At my age, 54, I'm a bit long in the tooth for cowboyin', but I can ride, break horses and when I was younger I could even throw a nice loop. Would hate to think about trotting a 20 mile circle now.

spaceman spiff · Post by **spaceman spiff** » Mon May 23, 2011 8:33 pm

This one......

spaceman

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Mon May 23, 2011 8:39 pm

RIHMFIRE wrote: They had warm showers too!!...they had cisterns on the roof...they collected rain water
or you had to hand pump the water up there....or carry it....

Sure...Warm in the summer (if you had rain) and cold in the winter.

You could have picked my grandparents up and dropped them in 1880 or 1800 and they would never have missed a beat. While I loved them dearly, I wouldn't want to live like that. I didn't care much for the outhouse or being last in the washtub on the back porch on Saturday night. And just in case you missed it, Did I say how much I loved my AC-and not just the cooling function of it.

And the most favorite thing of my grandparents was Pa's 1894 in .30 WCF, ca. 1906. My Dad has it and it will be mine someday. In Joe's fantasy I can't have it. (Unless I was in the movie "Unforgiven" where the posse says they can't buy enough .30-30 shells even though it's 1881

)

So I'm gonna stay put and have my leverguns, too

I WAS gonna play until jmiller set the date at 1881. I was gonna go back to the morning of the last $300 million lottery. I would spend a large chunk of that on land where I could shoot my neverending arsenal of guns, guns, guns...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon May 23, 2011 9:06 pm

Rube Burrows,
I totally understand about family. I have none. No parents, no kids of my own, no close relatives. So for me to leave it would be a piece of cake. (Chocolate with dark chocolate icing.)

Spaceman Spiff,
I like your choice of guns.

Strangely enough I've used outhouses, an old fashioned wooden double holer to boot, and that don't bother me. I can live without AC and as for bathing well, I've taken ice cold showers too. I got it down to a very short shower but I did it.

Joe

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Mon May 23, 2011 9:26 pm

winchester '73, check
colt same cal., check
gold, check
silver, check

AND THIS BOOK
http://www.archive.org/details/officialgazette93unit

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon May 23, 2011 9:34 pm

Joe - this is the Arizona desert - are you sure you want to go all the way back to that time.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon May 23, 2011 9:35 pm

I totally understand about family. I have none. No parents, no kids of my own, no close relatives. So for me to leave it would be a piece of cake.

I`m in the same boat, when ya crankin up this time machine.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Mon May 23, 2011 9:48 pm

in the immortal words of Jimmy Buffett;

"Yes, I am a pirate, two hundred year's too late / The cannons don't thunder, there's nothin' to plunder / I'm an over-forty victim of fate ...arriving too late"

A brace of Navy .36's for me and an 1841(think that's right) Cutlass. An open sea, full sail and a good compass!

I'd been a danged good pirate!
Oh, and my Dogs

jb

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Mon May 23, 2011 10:58 pm

Easy, an 1873 Winchester and Colt in .44-40 and a 12 ga. shotgun.

First thing I'd do is hire some engineers and set to rivaling Thomas Edison with an uninterrupted stream of inventions that I can describe (and they could draft and prototype) from my knowledge, education, and training. Tungsten electric lights, gasoline engines, dry cell batteries, vulcanized rubber, nitro powder, vapor cycle refrigeration, autoloading rifles, the automobile and the airplane are but a few that come to mind, but I would get myself seriously back up to speed on materials science engineering and learn as much about antibiotics as possible before launching. Several key text books would ride in my pack if allowed.

Can you tell that "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" and other alternate-history sci-fi books were favorites of mine as a kid??

Oly

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Tue May 24, 2011 12:48 am

Not me Joe...G-D made me (which proves HE has a sense of humor) to be right where I am. Average life span was 40 & it was a hard life. Disease was rampant. Great gramps thought the gas buggy was just "23 skidoo"...he said he liked the smell of burnt gas rather than have all the horse stuff in the streets of Chicago. Out in one of his ranches in Colorado, he finally got a toilet & indoor plumbing. He thought that was a BIG improvement in the early 1900's. Born in 1873, he saw all the neat stuff invented...died in '56.

An aside...My uncle Harry told me that if a man said "23 skidoo", he was considered a bounder, a roue & a cad making fashionable ladies look at him like he was a low life, a monster with giant warts on his face & then run screaming hysterically into the night. He was born in 1892 & died in 1980. He shore' liked his frycakes (doughnuts) & having lunch in the local saloon...

Nah...think I'll stay right where I am.

LB

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue May 24, 2011 12:54 am

OS, I lived a lot of years in AZ and I saw A LOT of that. One year when I was driving armored trucks my partner and I adjusted our routes so we could drive past the ASU dorms. The girls were out in droves sun bathing in suits that made it darn hard to concentrate on our jobs. Not sure my old heart could handle that now.

Oly, NO NO NO NO NO NO, you got it all crabbed. This going back in time is to get AWAY from nonsense like that. Piece and quiet, rest and relaxation. Not to bring it with you.

Pitchy,
I'm not sure yet. I'll yet you know.

LB,
OK, well when I get there I'll miss ya.

Joe

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Tue May 24, 2011 3:27 am

If I only had one trip, I'd sell everything, put the money in gold, and go back until about 1980 and invest in Microsoft. Then I'd just live the next 10-15 years until I was a billionaire.

If I had a real working machine, though, I think I'd use it to ship packages. You could make a fortune if you really could get it there yesterday.

gak · Post by **gak** » Tue May 24, 2011 5:31 am

Assuming you're taking existing skills with you, I'm not much of a builder--or much for temperature extremes (especily if having to survive other aspects of the old days) so I'll take a spread in La Jolla

.I can build a shack or lean-to at least and not freeze or fry - year round (and the beaches are fine...I like to swim) - and the land investment all the better to guarantee a nice future for my antecedents. A couple of quarter horses, one of them a paint, and a donkey to amuse

An 1873 ca 1925 as someone said if no modern replicas allowed--for forays into the hills when the fishing doesn't suffice, and the obligatory companion .44-40 Colt--of as modern metals as permitted--for SD.
If balmy coastal California isn't allowed and not "old/wild west" enough under the rules, then a ranchito mid-latitide and mid-elevation Aridzona or New Mexico--not too hot or cold--assuming remnant/renegade Apache/Mescalero not too much an issue.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue May 24, 2011 8:43 am

gak,

No mention was made of where, just when.

Joe

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue May 24, 2011 9:51 am

Have we left yet, that preacher now says the earth will burn up on Oct. 21

We better get things together and get on back a few hundred years.

Oh yea, also taking one big Bowie knife.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Tue May 24, 2011 10:13 am

When I was a boy in 1950 my folks had some old friends that was also a shirt tailed relative. This guy had been with Black jack pershing chaseing poncho villa in mexico and told me some entertaining storys. He was infantry not cavary, told of marching and takeing his boots off and as he said, "The hide would peel off right with the sock". He told of a indian scout that claimed to have sneaked into a cave of poncho sleeping with his men, stold ponchos rifle to prove he was there.
The big story was how he and some companions hunted and explored the rockys in the colorado area for close to a year without seeing a road. He said they used toboggans etc. I dont know if this was before or after chaseing villa around. I remember him showing me a old 45-70 springfield.
Were I to go back in time I would want guns of that era where you could get parts to fix them and frontier gunsmiths that were familiar to working on them. I also wouldnt have lived to 70 as I now am without my blood thinner etc. But then again perhaps I wouldnt need them as I wouldnt have made 3 spins on the scale either. I know joe`s rule was I couldnt come back once I chose to go. I dont think I would go if I couldnt come back. Now going back and forth would be fun. I enjoy air conditioning and a lot of stuff they didnt have back then.
I would love to have modern cameras and sound equipment and like thinking friends that knew how to use them, go back all through history to interview and record historical figures as they were. I also would like to have a lot of money of the era to gun shop, and trade guns with some of the people to bring back in our time. Also would like to have our cameras set up in safe hidden areas and record the almo, battle of little big horn and the civil war battles etc. I would like to find, film and record forefathers and relatives that we dont even have pictures of.
Know what? I have this idea that in the hereafter we just might be given all of these idea`s. In the bible it says every word is recorded etc. Everything and everybody that ever lived and every action just may be already recorded to blow some lieing defense`s on judgement day, dont cha think?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue May 24, 2011 1:49 pm

Pitchy wrote:Have we left yet, that preacher now says the earth will burn up on Oct. 21
We better get things together and get on back a few hundred years.
Oh yea, also taking one big Bowie knife.

Pitchy,
I agree with the knife or maybe several.
As for that knot head prevaricating preacher I suggest we just ignore him. When that time comes we'll know it. As for him he's just after his 15 minutes of fame before he kicks the bucket.

Joe

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Tue May 24, 2011 6:00 pm

J Miller wrote:With the way technology has advanced in the last 25 years, anyone from this century would be a functional retard a hundred years from now.

Besides it's hard to wax romantic about the future.

As for medical advances from now back to 1880, well, we are all vacinated against most of the diseases that killed folks back then and we have much better knowledge of how to keep from getting many of the then fatal ailments.

Yeah, I like 1880.

Joe

Well, I guess I could figure out how to get insulin from sheep. But, I doubt they'd have the needfuls to make it useable.