444 as a woods buming gun

Timothy · Post by **Timothy** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:13 pm

What do you all think of the 444 marlin as an all around target, small game, rock shooting woods gun? I have a ton of bulk cast 240gr swc and really like the lines of the full size 1895 444 rifle. I supose the 1894 in 44mag would make more sense but just cant get that exited about the 94 carbine. If the swc's feed ok i figure i could drive them around 2000-2200fps and have a handy accurate iron sighted lever action rifle good for targets of opportunity out to 200 yards or so. Am i missing anything, what do ya think? Thanks

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:37 pm

I think that rifle, and I had one, is capable of being a very variable all around gun as you wish by altering the loads and one which can be capable for almost anything except long flat shooting. Very light to very heavy loads all should work great - mine was very accurate.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:41 pm

RIGHT OFFHAND I WOULD SAY YOU ARE MISSING A LOT !!! WHATEVER IN THE WORLD MAKES YOU THINK YOU CAN TAKE 240gr 44MAG BULLETS AND JUST BLITHLY KICK 'EM UP TO 2000-2200fps AND HAVE YOURSELF AN " ALL AROUND...WOODS GUN" ?? AND JUST HOW IN THE WORLD DO YOU BELIEVE THAT ALL THAT POWER IS WHAT AN " ALL AROUND WOODS GUN ' IS ALL ABOUT ?? IT AIN'T !!! EVEN THE MARLIN 1894 44MAG CARBINE MAKES A LOUSY " ALL AROUND WOODS GUN "!! AND WHATEVER MAKES YOU THINK A 444MARLIN IS A 200 YARD RIFLE ??? HAVE YOU EVER CARRIED A LARGEBORE HEAVY SEMI-CLUNKY RIFLE/[CARBINE?] AROUND ALL DAY IN THE WOODS ??? AIN'T FUN !!!
NOW....THINK FOR ONE MINUTE AGAIN WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR.....YOU NEED A LIGHTWEIGHT ACCURATE MEDIUM BORE RELOADABLE 22MAG....IF THIS RINGS NO BELLS YET, THAT WOULD BE A 32/20 WITH 115gr LFN BULLETS AT 1500fpS THAT WILL HIT TINCAN SIZED ROCKS ALL DAY WITH ALL THE RECOIL OF A HEALTHY BEER BURP, AND KILL A DEER DEADER THAN CANNED TUNA. THERE ARE ABOUT FIFTY OTHER CARTRIDGES THAT'LL DO THIS TOO.
ON THE OTHER HAND MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT AND HAVING THAT BIG OL' 444 BEAT THE stuff OUTTA YOU WITH IT'S 5480 ft/lbs/energy WITH RECOIL TO MATCH REALLY LIGHTS YOUR CANDLE; GO FOR IT !!!

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:07 pm

I'd say the 444 would be a very versitale cartridge for most game. However for small game and woodsbumming I think a Marlin or Win 92 in 357 would be about perfect for what your talking. Light enough recoil to be enjoyable to shoot yet powerful enough to take deer and hogs all day long.

RustyJr

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:18 pm

While my response will be less 'colorful' than Terry's, it's not that far different. I'm absolutely sold on the 38/357 class carbine for a 'woods bumming' gun because its light weight, accurate, and can be loaded with a wide range of bullet weights and powder charges for an astoundingly wide performance capability from mouse fanny burp to roaring thunder; yet still not crush your shoulder when its fired with even the heaviest charged 200grn loads.

No, it isn't a 400yd elk dropper and no, it isn't my choice for bear but a 'woods bumming' gun shouldn't be mistaken for a dedicated large animal hunting rifle. If you're going for elk, bear, moose, or other dangerous animals, you're going to be hunting rather than 'woods bumming' and you should be outfitted for hunting your selected game.

With bullet weights of 100, 110, 125, 140, 150, 158, 162, 170, 180, and 200grn available in lead, hardcast, jacketed, and/or HP one has the ability to load up your a carbine to lob a 110grn from under 650fps or blast it at over 2,400fps as well as launch a 158grn bullet at 2,153fps generating a substantial 1,626ft/lbs of ME. Somewhere in that list there has got to be a load that will work for any kind of 'woods bumming' you have in mind.

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:38 pm

Terry is sometimes a little shy, subtle and therefore hard to understand. But I don't think he likes the idea much.

My thoughts are that the heaviest game you might encounter, and the furthest range you might need to shoot it, should set the parameters for caliber selection. Once there, you can usually concoct a cast bullet load for small game/pest uses.

I know, but cannot recall where, I have read of the 44-40 being used as sort of a '444 Short'. Unsourced practices like this should probably be avoided.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:42 pm

I can't see how having bullets on hand drives anything whatsoever. Get a .25-35 or a .30-30 and you'll do everything you want with reloading.

I'd as soon use a .444 for plinking as I would a .45-70! It's your money and your shoulder however.

Oly

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:04 pm

Here in the deep and dark woods of the PNW I personally prefer a .44 mag. A 20" Marlin Cowboy to be exact

Been packin' one as my woods bummin' gun every since I got my first one about 11 years ago and can't complain a bit. But my shots around here are short, under 150 yards and usually under 50 yards.

If you like the .444 I don't see why it wouldn't suit your needs. If you like all that recoil (as I did in my youth!) then by all means make it into a 200 yard rifle. If your SWC's don't have a GC however, you aren't going to be pushing them 2200fps. But if you wanted to push 'em 1400fps or a bit fast, then you'd be in luck.

I load my own 'woods bummin' gun down to 1200fps with a 255gr cast. Quiet, accurate and easy on the shoulder, yet pokes holes all the way through targets, carries easy and leaves lead splatters all over rocks that deserved to be 'put down'.

I'll be interested in what you end up doing.

2x22

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:27 pm

That gun is kind of big and heavy and has a lot more power than you need most of the time. I like a 357 carbine or a 30-30. A lot of the time a 22 is a nice gun to tote around and will kill a lot more things than people give it credit for. A Marlin 39 Mountie is a mighty handy gun.

Twodot · Post by **Twodot** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:56 pm

olyinaz wrote:I can't see how having bullets on hand drives anything whatsoever.

Is there a better reason to get a new rifle?

olyinaz wrote: It's your money ...........

Yup.

If it was me I would get something smaller & lighter (.357 mag, 32-20, 25-20). The OP likes the lines of a pistol grip levergun so it may take some searching to find what he wants.
..

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:04 pm

COSteve wrote:While my response will be less 'colorful' than Terry's, it's not that far different. I'm absolutely sold on the 38/357 class carbine for a 'woods bumming' gun because its light weight, accurate, and can be loaded with a wide range of bullet weights and powder charges for an astoundingly wide performance capability from mouse fanny burp to roaring thunder; yet still not crush your shoulder when its fired with even the heaviest charged 200grn loads.

No, it isn't a 400yd elk dropper and no, it isn't my choice for bear but a 'woods bumming' gun shouldn't be mistaken for a dedicated large animal hunting rifle. If you're going for elk, bear, moose, or other dangerous animals, you're going to be hunting rather than 'woods bumming' and you should be outfitted for hunting your selected game.

With bullet weights of 100, 110, 125, 140, 150, 158, 162, 170, 180, and 200grn available in lead, hardcast, jacketed, and/or HP one has the ability to load up your a carbine to lob a 110grn from under 650fps or blast it at over 2,400fps as well as launch a 158grn bullet at 2,153fps generating a substantial 1,626ft/lbs of ME. Somewhere in that list there has got to be a load that will work for any kind of 'woods bumming' you have in mind.

THIS ONE IS THE QUINTESSENTIAL ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTIONS. THE 357MAG IS THE NUMBER ONE CARTRIDGE OF THE FIFTY YOU CAN/COULD CHOOSE. IN A LIGHTWEIGHT CARBINE YOU CAN HAVE 357 LOADS WITH WC BULLETS FOR SMALL GAME OR 158-180gr BULLETS CARRYING MORE ENEVRGY THAN A 44MAG SIXGUN. THESE LATTER LOADS CAN KILL ANYTHING ON THE NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENT IF YOU CAN SHOOT STRAIGHT. [ IF YOU CAN'T THERE IS ALSO NO PERCENTAGE IN USING ANYTHING BIGGER...] OH MY....A SLEEK SLENDER LIGHTWEIGHT BROWNING '92 CARBINE IN 357.....BE STILL MY HEART !!!
AND SO IT GOES....

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:08 pm

Sarge wrote:Terry is sometimes a little shy, subtle and therefore hard to understand. But I don't think he likes the idea much.

Dave wrote:That gun is kind of big and heavy and has a lot more power than you need most of the time.

On the OTHER HAND, just to be contrary, I'd point out that my Guide Gun (you can get/make a .444 Marlin in the same configuration) is about the same size, and not that much heavier, than my Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag, and that some folks just don't mind totin' heavy guns around as much as others. Suit yourself. For that matter, you could pick a breakopen HandiRifle or Encore pistol if you had to have light weight but wanted a .444 Marlin chambering.

As far as the folks who say that boosting the puny little .44 Mag pistol bullet to over 2000 fps will just blow up on the skin of the animal (I've heard that alot), I show them my neatly punched steel gong that I shot at 100 yards with a factory 240-grain Soft Point Marlin .444, and I've never seen any evidence that it isn't the same bullet they insert in their .44 Magnum rounds - either way, it was a soft-point. Unless that deer's hide is stronger than 5/16" steel plate, I'm thinking it will still do the job properly.

If I lived in 'bear' country, I'd likely consider a .444 Marlin Guide Gun as my 'go to' walkabout gun. Since I don't, I'm more likely to have a .357 Mag or .44 Mag or .45 Colt. All those are plenty-good for game up to whitetail-size at 100 yards, or if you're an excellent shot and use well-constructed bullets of heavier weights, perhaps 150 yards (opinions would of course vary all over the place on that).

Of course NO gun can 'cover all needs' and do it well, so you just have to choose where to make do with less-than-ideal. Some folks use a rimfire long gun or handgun to carry about, just because in many places it's likelier they'll use that for some plinking and so on during their walk. If they think they'll get a chance at game or varmints or if they're worried about self-defense, they'll carry a centerfire handgun or long gun to compliment the other.

If you really want to cover all needs, you'll have to pull a golf-bag with half a dozen guns in it, but you'll get a really good workout...!

Timothy · Post by **Timothy** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:30 pm

Thanks everyone. I have a 45cal guide gun that I really like alot and the typical 3-4 shots a day i take with it recoil doesnt bother me. I figure with 4 more inches of barrel and bullets weighing 160 grs less that i already have, id have a fine blue and walnut iron sighted RIFLE for about 600$. Shots at 200yards would be the execption with most being within 100, and the velocity i stated was just an estimate.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:31 pm

Not sure really what you mean by woods walking. I know what I mean by it, but not sure what others think of it. For me, it is not woods walking while hunting for a primary "big game" animal and that varies by area. hard to beat what Terry and Steve said. Personally, I think the .444 is too big for a woods walking gun in my area. It would be a fine choice for a deer a rifle in that two weeks of the season here that you can use one here.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:43 pm

Load it up, load it down - pick the appropriate bullet and you can do anything you reasonably want. You are the one carrying the gun and if that is what you want to carry have at it.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:49 pm

Old Savage wrote:Load it up, load it down - pick the appropriate bullet and you can do anything you reasonably want. You are the one carrying the gun and if that is what you want to carry have at it.

I agree. But, for me personally, the 444 wouldn't be my choice. Mine would be my '73 in 38-40 of my 53 in 32-20. Not to big and not to small. Although the '73 would be a bit heavy by the end of the day cause it's a rifle, not a carbine.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:58 pm

Let me say though that the SWC is not the right choice for those speeds.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:01 pm

Someone could build a sleek over-under breakopen, with a .32-20 on top and a 45-70 on bottom, and it would be MY "woods-walking" gun...

Or how about a kind of 'LeMat' levergun, with 'button' magazine and a little under-barrel .410 or .22 WMR that mounted like an M-203 does to an M-16

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:44 pm

Old Savage wrote:Let me say though that the SWC is not the right choice for those speeds.

Hmmmm , you may be correct !

However ............................

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:45 pm

With the right hardness, GC and sizing in may work. I would be interested to see someone test it.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:49 pm

Old Savage wrote:With the right hardness, GC and sizing in may work. I would be interested to see someone test it.

Been there done that with all weights from 215 to 300 grains in the last 3 years !

Nothing harder then water dropped wheelweights in the 1-38 Micro Twist barrels !

Now bear in mind I don't waste my time with the plain base bullets !

Matter of fact I'm messing with the Lyman 429244 HP bullet right now

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:13 am

Friend of mine has used 250 Gr cast bullets in his SS Browning .375 H&H at 2500 fps. The group I watched him shoot was .27" at 100 yds for 3 shots.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:21 am

Old Savage wrote:Friend of mine has used 250 Gr cast bullets in his SS Browning .375 H&H at 2500 fps. The group I watched him shoot was .27" at 100 yds for 3 shots.

I doubt I can come close to duplicating that with those old Marlin's !
But MOA isn't out of the realm of distinct possibilities !

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:03 am

The one I had would shoot inch groups with a couple of bullets among them a 265 Hornady and a 312 gr cast bullet. I think I was shooting them about 1750 +/- with H322. Looks like the Hornady 300 XTP was the most accurate - got that one under 3/4" for 3 at 100 Yds with 47 gr of H322. 43 gr of H4198 was the fastest I shot it with a 265 Hornady - note says that was 4x 1.5" at 2150 just as a reference. I have always thought this had a wide range of possibilities but never got around to loading it down which I am sure would be easy enough. This was the 1 in 38" version on the twist with micro groove.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:43 am

I am in the camp that thinks you are going too big and loud. Hunting deer or bear isn't usually a casual proposition, if I'm out walking I'm thinking coyote or rodents. I wouldn't bother with a 200 yard shot.

Having said that, sometimes you have to go with the gun that speaks to you. You can't seriously be buying it to use up some bullets, that's what you tell your wife.

The 444 gun is basically a 336 which is what I generally take on casual trips. Probably the lightest 444 out there, the Handi-rifles are 7 lbs believe it or not.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:37 pm

El Chivo wrote:The 444 gun is basically a 336 which is what I generally take on casual trips. Probably the lightest 444 out there, the Handi-rifles are 7 lbs believe it or not.

An unscoped Marlin lever in 444 feels lighter in my hands and more handy to carry then the Handi Rifle in 444 !

I had a Handi Rifle in 444 , the clumsiness of the thing was a contributing factor to me selling it !

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:43 pm

Old Savage wrote:The one I had would shoot inch groups with a couple of bullets among them a 265 Hornady and a 312 gr cast bullet. I think I was shooting them about 1750 +/- with H322. Looks like the Hornady 300 XTP was the most accurate - got that one under 3/4" for 3 at 100 Yds with 47 gr of H322. 43 gr of H4198 was the fastest I shot it with a 265 Hornady - note says that was 4x 1.5" at 2150 just as a reference. I have always thought this had a wide range of possibilities but never got around to loading it down which I am sure would be easy enough. This was the 1 in 38" version on the twist with micro groove.

You're kinda mixing apples and oranges here !

I thought we were speaking of cast bullets only ?

As to jacketed ones in the 444 I've not shot any in about 5 years . And all the jacketed I shot was either in the 1-20 ballard barrel of a standard 444 , a 444P or the 444XLR .

With that in mind MOA was no great feat . The standard 444 I had first that was ballard and 1/20 had a distanict taste for the Hornady 265 as well as the Speer 270 . The first of the 444P's I had favored the Nosler 250 PT while the only thing I shot in the 444XLR was the Hoprnady 265 handloaded and the Leverevolution stuff . All of the above were MOA loads . But then some would say I cheated ! I always used 12 or 14 power scopes with these when I tested/worked up loads !

Now with my cast bullet "junk" I usually use no more then 8 power and yesterday was only using 3 power .

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:45 pm

Well let me add that my original 444P did certainly have a taste for the Nosler 250 Partition , but then that was the only bullet I fired in it until I decided to try some 400 grain cast bullets right before I sold it !

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:49 pm

6pt-sika wrote:An unscoped Marlin lever in 444 feels lighter in my hands and more handy to carry then the Handi Rifle in 444 !

Boy, I couldn't agree more. Handi Rifles never felt very ....'handi' to me. Give me a lever anyday

I like a .44 Marlin as I mentioned above. I worked up 3 loads that all hit close enough to the same point of aim that I can nip the head from a grouse with any of 'em. I don't see why the same thing couldn't be done with the 444. A neat little light load for a bumming gun with a small handful of something that would be harnessing the power the round can generate. It would be fun to try.

2x22

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:38 pm

Timothy wrote:What do you all think of the 444 marlin as an all around target, small game, rock shooting woods gun? I have a ton of bulk cast 240gr swc and really like the lines of the full size 1895 444 rifle. I supose the 1894 in 44mag would make more sense but just cant get that exited about the 94 carbine. If the swc's feed ok i figure i could drive them around 2000-2200fps and have a handy accurate iron sighted lever action rifle good for targets of opportunity out to 200 yards or so. Am i missing anything, what do ya think? Thanks

I'm not so sure I'd use my T-4 for small game unless I reloaded some round ball garrison loads. You might have a hard time finding anything edible from a small game carcass if it's hit with a .44 cal bullet around 2000 fps. On the other hand, I'm fairly certain you'd have enough gun in those circumstances!

rimrock

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:43 pm

rimrock wrote:
Timothy wrote:What do you all think of the 444 marlin as an all around target, small game, rock shooting woods gun? I have a ton of bulk cast 240gr swc and really like the lines of the full size 1895 444 rifle. I supose the 1894 in 44mag would make more sense but just cant get that exited about the 94 carbine. If the swc's feed ok i figure i could drive them around 2000-2200fps and have a handy accurate iron sighted lever action rifle good for targets of opportunity out to 200 yards or so. Am i missing anything, what do ya think? Thanks
I'm not so sure I'd use my T-4 for small game unless I reloaded some round ball garrison loads. You might have a hard time finding anything edible from a small game carcass if it's hit with a .44 cal bullet around 2000 fps. On the other hand, I'm fairly certain you'd have enough gun in those circumstances!

rimrock

"If" one were inclined it isn't that difficult to make 444 shot cartridges and if I'm not mistaken they are pretty darned close to the same payout as a 2 1/2" 410 !

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:29 am

Timothy wrote:What do you all think of the 444 marlin as an all around target, small game, rock shooting woods gun? I have a ton of bulk cast 240gr swc and really like the lines of the full size 1895 444 rifle. I supose the 1894 in 44mag would make more sense but just cant get that exited about the 94 carbine. If the swc's feed ok i figure i could drive them around 2000-2200fps and have a handy accurate iron sighted lever action rifle good for targets of opportunity out to 200 yards or so. Am i missing anything, what do ya think? Thanks

Spend the $600 and get a AR15 and have a real gun

Or heck, spend half that and get a Stoeger Outback???

Honestly if you already have your guide gun your kinda spending $$$ on somthing you already have?

But, then again probably most of us on here have done that also

Still though if holding that gun gives you a warm tingling feeling/goose bumps/Buy the sucker!
We all learn through experience. That's what GunBroker is for!

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:12 pm

From 6pt-sika
"If" one were inclined it isn't that difficult to make 444 shot cartridges and if I'm not mistaken they are pretty darned close to the same payout as a 2 1/2" 410 !"

Marshall Stanton over at Beartoothbullets.com has a good explanation of how to load .410 in the .444

rimrock

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:05 pm

6pt-sika wrote:"If" one were inclined it isn't that difficult to make 444 shot cartridges and if I'm not mistaken they are pretty darned close to the same payout as a 2 1/2" 410 !

Yep, and the "slug" loads for .444 Marlin kinda make the .410's look silly in comparison...

.410 Slug - 87.5 grains at 1830 fps = 650 ft-lbs

.32-20 Winchester - 85 grains at 2300 fps = 999 ft-lbs

.444 Marlin - 240 grains at 2350 fps = 2942 ft-lbs

So, unless my primary goal was quail-hunting, I think I'd rather accept the "darned close" shot loads vs. the .410, and have the much better 'slug' loads.

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:30 pm

Nice thing about this is you can load it at any level you want.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:37 pm

Old Savage wrote:Nice thing about this is you can load it at any level you want.

That is so very true !

But seems like all of my 444 loads are full speed ahead now

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:41 pm

That too is true and I think this fellow may be on the road to a fuller use as Paul Matthew did with his book on the 45-70. You have certainly done a lot of experimenting with a lot of rifles. This would not be a bad choice for the only one question in the levers.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:32 pm

Old Savage wrote:That too is true and I think this fellow may be on the road to a fuller use as Paul Matthew did with his book on the 45-70. You have certainly done a lot of experimenting with a lot of rifles. This would not be a bad choice for the only one question in the levers.

You know as absurd as this may sound now . I didn't really like the 444 until I started shooting alot of cast bullets in them !

And even though I own 20+ of them now I still think the 45-70 a better big game hunting cartridge so naturally I still have atleast one 45-70 in the old accumulation !

As for my experimenting . Over the years I expect I could have put one and possibly two kids through any major university in this country on what it's cost me monetarily !

It's one thing being a "gun scribe" and having the majority of the stuff given to you by the manufacturers and a totally different animal when you fund it all yourself !

Canuck Bob · Post by **Canuck Bob** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:44 am

I own a 444 and a 32-20 lever gun. Your idea is fine and very sensible, I do the same. I would dial the velocity back if it was me and my range expectations for woods loafing is 100 yards. When I plan to shoot a lot of big bore plinking I like the bullet in the dirt quick. I'll try some Trail Boss soon and am hoping to put together a 1200-1400 fps load this summer that stays supersonic to at least a 100 yards. I love carrying my 444 whenever I can. The 32-20 is a lot cheaper to load for and sure is a lot less fuss but both rifles get woods loafing time about equal with my Jungle Carbine.

I am current with all my serious shooting rifles. Isn't that why we buy guns to carry them in the woods? I really don't understand any expert who suggests that you not carry any rifle in the woods! I'm old enough to remember when real gun experts always advised hunters to handload and shoot there hunting rifles as plinkers off season. Now they write ad copy that people believe.

The one major reason to woods loaf with a 444 is to get a lot of field trigger time for when it really counts. Every hunter should do this in my opinion with full power loads close to the season. I don't flinch because I've shot hundreds of big bore power loads in the field at rocks, rabbits, and pine cones. You start hitting tin cans every time past 50 paces offhand and you are good for moose to 150 yards. My offhand skills are dismal these days but this is the test for me. Shooting my 32-20 is not shooting my 444. My 32-20 is my plinker and has a personal defense role, 444 is my hunting rifle, Lee Enfield No.5 is my battle rifle.

If I didn't woods loaf with them all I'd just be another guy who thinks bench time at the range is real practice for moose hunting and energy numbers are important. How much military training happens from a bench and how much laying on your belly in the dirt?

Your plan will turn you into a highly skilled lever rifle shot with one of the premier hunting rifles around. How can that be anything but a worthy effort and a ton of fun.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:38 am

6 pt, Have to admire a guy having an interest and thoroughly pursuing it. I did not like the 444 loaded up and usually shot it at about 1750. Never did load it down further but we did experiment with cast. 312 and 362 in the one in 38. The 312 was very accurate and the 362 keyholed. It is easier to reload for on a Dillon because you only have to change the tool head from the 30-06 family. Sounds like you have funded your own education on this.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:12 am

Old Savage wrote: I did not like the 444 loaded up and usually shot it at about 1750. Never did load it down further but we did experiment with cast. 312 and 362 in the one in 38. The 312 was very accurate and the 362 keyholed.

You have to take into consideration I waste time with bigger meaner beasties like the 416 REM MAG , 416 Rigby and 505 Gibbs so the recoil from the 444 even with my stoutest loads isn't so bad !

With the 1-38 Micro twist you had in your 444 to get the 362 grainer to stabalize you needed to get the hardness up to about water quenched wheelweights and then you needed to push them a bit harder . Once you get past 320 grains in the slow Micro barrels you need harder that fit the barrel and faster velocity to stabalize !

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:18 am

Old Savage wrote: Sounds like you have funded your own education on this.

Yes sir !

If it wasn't for guns , women , cars , booze and steam engines I'd have a rather sizable accumulation of capital in the bank !

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:46 am

Guy I know won $12,000 in Las Vegas - asked him what he did with it and he replied that he spent $10,000 on women and booze and the rest he just wasted.

So far I have had no use for steam engines.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:09 pm

I'd rather do my woods bumming carrying my .357 mag Trapper, or my 22 Taurus levergun, much more fun and economical to carry and shoot.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:46 pm

So what - he wants to carry a 444.

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:54 pm

Exactly, OS.

I knew a feller years ago that owned one gun. A 45-70. Needless to say that was also his 'woods bumming' gun. He used two loads for as long as I ever knew him. A 300gr cast and 9grs of Unique and a 500gr with enough 3031 to drive it plumb through an elk.

Who was to say that was too much gun for 'woods bumming'?

Rarely did I ever see him that he didn't have that rifle with him no matter what time of year.

2x22

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:25 pm

Timothy wrote:What do you all think of the 444 marlin as an all around target, small game, rock shooting woods gun?

The OP asked for our opinions so we're giving it. I personally wouldn't want to target shoot with a 444. Sight in, and shoot big game sure, but not spend a whole afternoon target shooting 50-100 rounds?

I definitely would not consider the 444 a small game round, and never would recommend it as such even for varmints. Shooting rocks with 444 would be fun for a few rounds but not many. Again he asked for our opinion. If he already made up his mind before he started this thread then I guess this whole thread was pointless, a waste of time.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:43 pm

Those who don't understand this as an all around gun - don't understand if --- you are willing to carry it.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:38 pm

Friends Call Me Ji wrote: I personally wouldn't want to target shoot with a 444. Sight in, and shoot big game sure, but not spend a whole afternoon target shooting 50-100 rounds?

Actually it isn't that bad !

I'll typically shoot 30-60 rounds once or twice each week in load testing with one or more of my variouse 444's !

And believe it or not I had one of the setup with a Leupold 6.5-20x a month or so ago to actually shoot in a CBA match !

Oh yeah , when I'm doing load development or sight in's 100 rounds in 4 or 5 rifles will be burned in about 90 minutes . Of course thats usually 3 of this , 3 of this and so on !

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:41 pm

I have shot 150 30-06 level rounds off the bench in a couple of hours or less - not that big a deal.