Reloading 30-30 question

[93marshooter]

I full length sized some 100 30-30 brass that I have shot from my 93 marlin. I trimmed about 50 of these before loading and shooting in the rifle. Now after shooting the brass many seem to need trimming again. They were full length sized in RCBS dies. My questions are; How much trimming can I expect to be needed in 30-30 brass? And Do you separate brass by brand? It does not seem to matter but Remington Peters brass is lighter than Winchester. I have some Hornady brass from Leverevolution ammo. I found that these stretched some as well and I trimmed to see how they do. I probably will use a dial caliper to see if trimming is necessary. I have the view that in shooting a batch they should all be trimmed to the same length to get best accuracy. I am thinking of getting a “Lee Loader” and neck size some just to see how they handle in the rifle. How do you get most uses out of 30-30 brass?

[J Miller]

I have some 30-30 brass I bought back in the mid 1960s that I'm still using. I full size them in RCBS dies from the mid 70s ( Used a Lee Loader up to then) trim them when they need it and just load 'em.
Last year in a fit of boredom I sized and trimmed some 500 rounds of 30-30 brass. Some had been trimmed before, not others. But non of it needed trimmed to any great extent.

All my 30-30s have been Win 94s with normal head space and chambers.
Your Marlin being as old as it is, might be a bit generous there and if so that would contribute to the brass stretching more than normal.

I wouldn't sweat it unless you start having case head separations.

Joe

[Nath]

Hmmm, othe rwill correct me if needed but full re-sizing brass will cause it to stretch more than if it is sized just enough for your rifle.

30wcf brass is thin and will stretch more readily than thicker cases, I allways think of thin hornet brass when loading 30wcf, same shape etc.

Be carefull just neck sizing for leveractions, they don't have strong caming action should you not size enough. try and find a happy medium. I like seeing the case head area just getting a touch from the die.

The Lee case trimmers for caliber are cheap enough and every case will be the same length.

Good luck.

Edit, Joe beat me to it,,,,,,

Nath.

[Old Time Hunter]

To be honest, I have never kept track of the amount of times that any of my 30wcf's have been reloaded.

Some of my cases date back to the early seventies and most likely have been reloaded at least two or three times a year.

[93marshooter]

Thanks for the feedback here
Rick

[piller]

+1 on the Lee trimmer. I use it with a Black and Decker electric screwdriver to spin the brass. It is easy to use to me.

[93marshooter]

That's my set up for trimming as well but use a B&D plug in drill or B&D power screw driver drill, with lee trimmer. All very handy. I'll spend less time and anxt about the brass unless it cannot chamber or is damaged.

[J Miller]

I've found 30-30 brass to be very durable. Never noticed it to be thinner than the normal for cartridges of this size and pressure level.

As for the cases being damaged I've found hundreds of 30-30 cases in the AZ desert. Many of them semi flattened and or dented by being walked on. If they were not creased I've salvaged all of them and am still using them.

Regards trimming: If you keep your loads to normal 30-30 levels they don't stretch that much even when you full size them.

A trick for full sizing is to make sure you use enough of a good case lube below the shoulder and a dry lube like mica in the neck. That way the die itself does not contribute to stretching the cases.

Joe

[Old Savage]

To my experience RCBS dies size down too much and the brass stretches when the expander comes back through the case - I am not surprised.

[J Miller]

To my experience RCBS dies size down too much and the brass stretches when the expander comes back through the case - I am not surprised.

That's what you use the mica in the case neck for. Or, what I did for decades before I got the mica, run a clean brass brush in the neck to remove the carbon. Expander don't grab it near as much that way.

As for the body, they are full sized to SAAMI specs. You want less, use a neck size die.

Joe

[Griff]

Tumble fired cases; lube the outside of the case & inside neck (sparingly); resize/deprime; check for length, trim as necessary; deburr mouth/clean priimer pocket & flash hole; clean off lube; prime/reload. Same process for any bottleneck cartridge. Simple, but trying for shortcuts will cause "issues"!

[93marshooter]

Griff,
Thanks for the quick check list.
Rick

[woods-walker]

I full length resize using RCBS dies and crimp with the Lee tool. Always trim new brass and uniform primer pockets. Trim after every other shooting. I toss 30wcf brass after 4-5 reloads. I may be over doing it but I'm not inclined to push bottle neck cartridge reloads in leveractions.

[J Miller]

I full length resize using RCBS dies and crimp with the Lee tool. Always trim new brass and uniform primer pockets. Trim after every other shooting. I toss 30wcf brass after 4-5 reloads. I may be over doing it but I'm not inclined to push bottle neck cartridge reloads in leveractions.

wood-walker,
When you toss those slightly used 4-5 times reloaded cases, toss em in my direction. I hate wasting good brass.

Joe

[WCF3030]

I did a little experiment with the same 20 30-30 brass in a H&R shooting cast at 1700 fps.
I reloaded the same 20 28 times before giving up on wearing them out.

[93marshooter]

the old 30-30 shoots well. It handles the cast 170 gr Lee better than factory ammo. I tried the leverevoultion and found it to be noticeably hotter than other 30-30 ammo and shot really clean. No powder residue with that stuff.I wonder what kind of powder they use. Is it the new Leverevolution powder or some other not revealed to the public?

[El Chivo]

I noticed that all my new cases were shorter than the reloading manual suggests, so none of them have gotten "too" long yet.

I do have a specific size I use with my hunting loads, for consistency. I cull these out and save them for just that load. Some were already that size, then the next time around some more shorter ones had lengthened just enough, and so forth.

For general shooting, I don't sweat it too much. I figure, if they get longer, it's a little more room in the case, and less pressure, so it's safe. Why knock yourself out? There's going to be some variation no matter what you do.

[93marshooter]

I sat with a dial caliper last night sorting 30-30 cases. 90% were within useable specs. I will trim the ones that need it, and those that with in a few thousand's of max length. 2.039. The max trim length is 2.019 that is a lot of variance. the Lee trimmer cuts to about 2.029 That's still lots of trim. I did not find any at the minimum length and would have put them in a separate pile. I have lots of range pickup brass probably only shot one time. I have found that the old rifle has a frame a little shorter than the Marlin 336. 170 gr length ammo is about as long as it will handle. The mechanism will not chamber longer ammo such as cast 180 gr. but you can load one at a time. Have to be careful with 170 gr GC cast to seat bullet to proper depth, or the rifle will jam up with the round hung up in the receiver.

[BAGTIC]

Ackley wrote about an experiment with case stretching in his book. IIRC the gist of it was that it wasn't normall sizing that caused case stretching. More like stretching occurs by firing in oversized chambers so when case is sized down again it is elongated.

[Old Savage]

I have measured brass before and after full length resizing with RCBS dies and guess what - it stretched. I have measured brass before and after resizing with collet dies and it was shorter. I have fired rifle cases without sizing maybe 12 times without stretch or trimming with the collet dies. With those with bottleneck I take the fired cases and turn them in my hand with aloe kleenex to clean the outside of the neck and body and reload them - only issue is the necks very occasionally get too thin. This does show what can be maintained with bolts and this sizing method. Now to do the same thing in a 99 or 88 you need to keep the pressures down a little but with the BLR no so. Normal pressures work with mine at least. 88 has a bit of a generous chamber and the 99 just doesn't contain the case as well.

[93marshooter]

One final question!!! I loaded up 50 rounds with cast WW Lee 170 with Lee Alox lube Keeping the seating die clean is a problem. It must be done or you will seat bullet far to deep. What do you use to clean that Alox?

[J Miller]

Well, first I put it on sorta thin. Then I set them base down on a piece of wax paper and let them sit for at least 24 hours. Generally that gets them dry enough so they don't gum up the seating die.
If they still do, I powder them with mica. That does it right there.

You can wipe them with alcohol to clean them, but that's kind of hard and you'll get drunk.

Joe