.357 vs .45 Colt vs .41 Mag, not your usual question!

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:02 pm

This isn't to ask which is best or which I should get, this is more of which is a general do-all topic. I think...

I've been toying with the the thought of a Blackhawk. I'm partial to the sub-5" barrels but the more I think about it, I wouldn't mind a 6.5" in case I ever get the urge to hunt critters or steel.

I don't reload yet (waiting for The Boy to fly the nest so I can snag the room before She Who Puts Up With Me froo-froos it) but I have dies and brass for both the .357 and .45 so ammo cost isn't a huge concern.

Here's my thoughts/questions/concerns and my general understanding of things:
I've always been told the .357 is flatter shooting than the Colt. Let's call the range 100yds max. So within those parameters, is that true or false? If true, can the Colt be made to shoot as flat as the .357? And FWIW I prefer heavy bullets (like 180g for .357), does that make a huge difference?

I'm pretty sure I can ramp up the horsepower of the .357 to match the hot .45s, especially in a BH. OTOH, I can load mid-range .45s to match medium to hot .357s. For the above parameters, which makes more sense?

Now then, where does the .41 fall in this dicussion? I understand Keith, Jordan and possibly Skeeter Skelton were huge proponents of the .41 but the factory loadings wound up being watered down and were neither fish nor fowl.

In factory loadings, how does the recoil compare to a .44 Mag? The few .44 Mags I've fired were flat out unpleasant to me and there's no point in having something if it isn't fun to shoot IMO.

So tell me, which is best and what should I get? Wait, that wasn't where this topic was supposed to go....

Seriously though, how far off is what I've laid out?

Truth be told, I'll end up with at least the .357 and .45 at some point down the road. And who knows, a .41 may turn up in the stable as well. I just want to know if my understanding of things is correct or what I haven't considered.

So tell me, which is best and what should I get?

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:18 pm

uh,,,,,,

D; all of the above?

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:40 pm

I've had a couple .41 mags. Nice cartridge but when you hop them up it kicks just as hard as a .44 mag. That's why
I sold them and kept the .44s. Didn't see the need for both of them.

jb

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:47 pm

If you load up a .45, it will recoil just as much as a .44 mag. On the other hand, a 300gr .45 or .44 launched at a moderate 1000 or 1100 will be comfortable to shoot and just plain knock the stuff out of whatever you hit. Those loads will more than likely be useful far past the distance you can shoot accurately with a Ruger BlackHawk.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:58 pm

BlaineG wrote:loads will more than likely be useful far past the distance you can shoot accurately with a Ruger BlackHawk.

Sheesh, I'd hope they were accurate past 50 feet!

Those kinds of loads do give me something to ponder though. .44 Mag recoil is what I want to avoid for sure. Newton's Third Law and all you know...

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:00 pm

2ndovc wrote:I've had a couple .41 mags. Nice cartridge but when you hop them up it kicks just as hard as a .44 mag.

That's what I figured but thought it was worth throwing into the discussion.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:03 pm

First I would take .357 mag out of the equasion. At longer ranges the heavier bullets keep up their momentum and ME and penitration. The big 45 colt has huge voluem and therefore needs less pressure. They tell me in rugers you can get actualy more power than a .44 mag. I dont claim to be a expert on that. But as you describe your wants, to me, 357 wouldnt even be in the running. I have 4 357s, 7 44 specials, one 44 mag, and several 45 colts. My opinion is from owning them.

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:33 pm

My 4 5/8" 357 Blackhawk is a FUN gun to shoot. I don't have a 45 Colt but I have two 44s; my scoped 7 1/2" Super is very accurate, the recoil is manageable even with warm 300gr XTPs. My 4 5/8" Super is much less fun to shoot with full house 44 magnums but when shooting 44 Specials it becomes fun again. Recently, I got some 44 Colt brass (from a fellow forum member) and shooting those through the 4 5/8" Super is like shooting 22 shorts through my Single Six.

By the way, I agree about the 41 Mag, I've fired it through a S&W and a Blackhawk; couldn't tell the difference between them and a 44 Mag.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:53 pm

As you don't reload, the 357 is probably the best bet, ammo is cheaper especially if you factor in the ability to use 38 special.
If you were a reloader then the choice goes to the 45 colt or the 41. You'll have to take the 357 to the firewall to make it do what a mildly +p 45 or a midrange 41 can do. Never mind what either one of the "4x"'s are capable of at full throttle.
One of each and a couple of 44's and a 40 or two thrown into the mix, and maybe in 40 years or so the answer will come to ya

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:38 pm

A .357Mag with a 158 bullet @ approx. 1100fps will have approx. 4.8ft-lbs of recoil energy in a 2.8 lb Blackhawk with your 6-½" barrel.

A .45Colt with a 260gr bullet @ approx. 1100fps will have approx. 13.3ft-lbs of recoil energy in a 2.5 lb. Blackhawk with a 5-½" barrel, and remains approximately the same with the 7-½" barrel... (no listing for 6-½" barrel in .45 Colt).

As to the trajectory:

The .357M

The .45 Colt

Now if you're looking at the total drop at 100 yards, remember, I just arbitrarily put in a 10 yard "0" range. But, regardless of what those drop in inches numbers say... that 260 grain bullet will smack whatever you hit with more authority at 100 yards than that .357 has at the muzzle.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:10 pm

Thanks for the feedback all!

Don McDowell wrote:One of each and a couple of 44's and a 40 or two

I saw a .40 S&W Vaquero on another forum. I have zero use for it as I got out of the .40 S&W game a while back but it sure did look interesting.

Griff, any chance of calculating the recoil of the .44 using the same program so I have a reference point?

I've thought about the .44 Special angle but it seems a shame to use a Mag frame strictly for Specials on down. At least I don't think there is a Special only BH. I keep thinking the ones I've seen are built on Vaquero frames but I could be sadly mistaken.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:23 pm

Take this for what it's worth for I have never owned or shot a .45 colt and have only shot one round from a .44M when I was like 14. In other words almost 30 years ago. But it's real dang hard to get more power out of one end without more punishment at the other. IMO if you stick with traditional .45C loads recoil will be similar to the .45acp but penetration and range will suffer for hunting. Yes, you can load up either the .45C or the .41 but you will reach a threshold that you have already decided you would just as soon not reach. Where that line is I have no idea.

Griff gave some good info but........... it only tells part of the story. Griff's load is a pretty wimpy .357 load. You can load 180gr JHP's to 1300 fps in a 6 1/2" Blackhawk and it's not bad at all on the hands. Don't have the exact numbers in front of me but it will have a minimum of 500 ft./lbs at 50 yards. In other words it has more power downrange than the .357 load Griff used at the barrel too. The 180gr .357 load I used will also shoot flatter than the .45C and have better penetration due to a very good SD. It still won't have the ft./lbs. at 100 yards that either a hot-ish .45C or the .41M will have but it won't buck as much and only you can decide if you need the punch. I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting a deer at 100 yards with my .357 load but then again my shooting isn't up to that task either.

LK

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:27 pm

awp101 wrote:...Griff, any chance of calculating the recoil of the .44 using the same program so I have a reference point?

The Super Blackhawk in a .44Mag weight about the same as a Blackhawk in .357, (the 5-½" version, as they only list a 4-5/8", 5-½", 7-½" and the 10-½") and a 240 grain bullet @ approx. 1400fps would generate approx. 21ft-lbs. of recoil energy. So there's quite a jump between the 3 cartridges.

The velocities I used are near the top recommneded loads from my Speer #11 reloading manual for each of the cartridges. Not the absolute max, but pretty close to it.

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:49 pm

Chuck Hawks Pistol Recoil programs shows the following recoil comparisons (assume a 2.5lb pistol).

240grn 44mag at 1144fps generates a Recoil Energy of 8.0lbs with a recoil Velocity of 11.2fps
240grn 44mag at 1200fps generates a Recoil Energy of 8.9lbs with a recoil Velocity of 11.8fps
240grn 44mag at 1271fps generates a Recoil Energy of 10.0lbs with a recoil Velocity of 12.5fps
240grn 44mag at 1450fps generates a Recoil Energy of 22.5lbs with a recoil Velocity of 21.9fps
300grn 44mag at 1187fps generates a Recoil Energy of 22.6lbs with a recoil Velocity of 22.0fps

250grn 45Colt at 1200fps generates a Recoil Energy of 17.0lbs with a recoil Velocity of 20.0fps
300grn 45Colt at 1150fps generates a Recoil Energy of 23.9lbs with a recoil Velocity of 23.7fps

158grn 357mag at 1250fps generates a Recoil Energy of 8.7lbs with a recoil Velocity of 12.3fps

Griff is correct that you can generate a much heavier hitting 45 Colt bullet than you can a 357mag, HOWEVER, (and it is a huge however) the penalty you'll pay is significantly increased recoil. Check out the recoil energy and velocity numbers above. The Based upon your stated desire to stay away from the 44mag level recoil, if you selected the 45Colt platform you'd be left with only light to mild loads in 45Colt to stay below the 44mag's recoil numbers.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:04 pm

My 180gr load is using BlueDot via my Lee manual. I was wrong with the velocity as it's listed as 1260fps with what I assume is a 6" barrel (mother of all screw up's?). I use this combo close to max in my Security Six.

Griff, question on your BC numbers. Handloads.com list the BC for your .45C bullet at .158, the 158gr .357 bullet at .155 and the 180gr .357 at .177. Checked here http://www.sierrabullets.com/bullets/Ba ... andgun.pdf and the numbers for the .357 are even better and the .45C about the same as my numbers. Any idea why our BC numbers are so far off and what's right? It makes a big differnece at 100 yards in the drop and ft./lbs.

LK

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:29 pm

awp101 wrote: At least I don't think there is a Special only BH.

sure there is;

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... CC0Q8wIwAw

tman · Post by **tman** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:46 pm

Unless i move to Alaska and my cabin gets surrounded by grizzly bears everyday, i'll take a .357. Flatter shooting, cheaper to shoot, especially with .38 specials, more factory options that the rest combined. From mice to moose. And if a big bear jumps me, a 180 buffaloe bore AT CLOSE RANGE, will work as well as the others. Remember that a 30WCF. is more powerfull than any of the 3 mentioned, and no EXPERT will reccomend the 30WCF as a close range bear stopper

Maybe , the clincher, for me anyway, is that i shoot the .357 well, can't say the same with a hot loaded .44. In the end, try them all, and see which one u can shoot the best. Have fun

Cliff · Post by **Cliff** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:52 pm

Some good questions and some good answers. I have revolvers in all three calibers. If you can play with the 41 Magnum a bit it is an eye opener. I like all three. The 41 is useful and recoil isn't too bad to me. The hotter 44's are sometimes nasty. If you have the books by Keith read up on his writings on the 41's. He did some shooting and it was impressive. If you don't have a 41 this is a good excuse to get one, with reloading dies.

. Good Luck and all the best in your search.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:58 pm

I have one of those .44 special rugers myself.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:04 pm

A .357 mag doesn't even come close to a .44 Mag or .45 Colt
To me the .41Mag is stuck between and not even considered.

For the most for the bullet do the .45 Colt.
It handles the bigger bullets better with noticeable lower pressure.
Trust me,you won't regret a .45 Colt

Have got an article(think it was in American Handgunner Magazine that John Taffin did extensive testing on both .44Mag vs .45Colt and explained the significant difference in the .45Colt handling larger bullets with much less pressure(less kick) also easier on gun etc.
He also talked about the 335 grain .45 Colt dropping elk like a .338 Winchester Mag rifle out to less than a 100 yds.
He had facts to back up his claims.
Somewhere in a tupperware container I should still have it. (I'll look?)
I remember the article name(Make mine a .45)

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:31 pm

First, you can't go wrong with any of them. But, your chances of finding a better selection of factory ammo are with the .357, followed by the .45 Colt and them the .41 mag.

If you do get to reloading, ease of finding components for the .357 and .45 Colt are a toss up, with the .41 sometimes a bit more difficult. This would be at your average brick and mortar store. Online, all things are even.

Any of the rounds can be loaded from mild to wild, so finding loads in your comfort zone aren't an issue either.

Now you did mention the possibility of hunting. Here's where the three rounds deviate. Some have taken deer sized animals with the .357, but I personally feel it's a bit of a stretch. Especially when other more suitable rounds are easily available. So, with the hunting thing taken into consideration, either the .41 or the .45 are even up for typical North American "larger" game animals. If you go for large and toothy types, I'd give the edge to the .45 Colt.

My personal preference in order would be, .45 Colt, .41 mag and finally .357 mag. But, I like loud and boomers.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:41 pm

Though sold, this one makes my mouth water.
click on it to super size pic!

http://www.gunsamerica.com/911479244/Gu ... 5_Colt.htm

And boy, is that .45 a big hole!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:00 pm

L_Kilkenny wrote:Griff, question on your BC numbers. Handloads.com list the BC for your .45C bullet at .158, the 158gr .357 bullet at .155 and the 180gr .357 at .177. Checked here http://www.sierrabullets.com/bullets/Ba ... andgun.pdf and the numbers for the .357 are even better and the .45C about the same as my numbers. Any idea why our BC numbers are so far off and what's right? It makes a big differnece at 100 yards in the drop and ft./lbs.
LK

Kilkenny,

Those BC numbers are what's in the Lee Shooter program that I used to generate those charts. Calculations to figure them myself is way above my paygrade.

Jeff H · Post by **Jeff H** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:24 pm

awp101 wrote:....I've thought about the .44 Special angle but it seems a shame to use a Mag frame strictly for Specials on down. At least I don't think there is a Special only BH. I keep thinking the ones I've seen are built on Vaquero frames but I could be sadly mistaken.

Hope you guys aren't getting tired of these two pics.

I am really fond of the .45 Colt and the .44 mag and like the .357 a lot for certain things, but I always kept coming back to (or just hung onto) the .44 Special. When Ruger finally made it in the OM Blackhawk-sized frame, I let the others go and got one of these. I kept an SP101 in .357 but for the way I loaded the .45 Colt and the .44 mag, I was sooting a 'Special.

The .357 is just in another class in my book - not worse, not better, just a different bird and does not fall in among those others being compared. The .41 could easily be my choice (in the OMBH frame size) if I could find the right DA CCW to accompany it, but then you get back into the "magnum frame" thing all over again.

Lipsey's Ruger .44 Special from the first run. Slicked, tuned, springs, Belt Mountain Base Pin and CLC Olivewood grips.

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:18 pm

L_Kilkenny wrote:You can load 180gr JHP's to 1300 fps in a 6 1/2" Blackhawk and it's not bad at all on the hands. Don't have the exact numbers in front of me but it will have a minimum of 500 ft./lbs at 50 yards. In other words it has more power downrange than the .357 load Griff used at the barrel too. The 180gr .357 load I used will also shoot flatter than the .45C and have better penetration due to a very good SD.

I think Kilkenny has a good observation there: that's what I use for a top load in .357 and I wouldn't feel too bashful about shooting a critter with the load. I use H110 to get there at moderate pressure. For just all round shooting I drop down a couple of grains and get about 1150fps and that seems pretty pleasant. And of course you can use 38 velocity loads for real mild shooting fun.

I'd get the 357 first, 'cause you'll just plain shoot the thing more because it is so nice to shoot and the 180 grain load provides a pretty fair punch. Add the 45 later when you get seriously "power hungry".

model55 · Post by **model55** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:44 pm

Just my limited experience.I bought my 41 BH used about 1990 and could have thrown in another 70.00 and gotten a 44 instead.At the time reloading stuff for it was all over the place in my area.That is not the case any more but I'm fairly well stocked.Shooting out of a carbine the 41 is like a 22 but out of the 45/8 BH can be down right abusive with some loads.I usually shoot cast which are real comfortable, I feel they would take anything I'd encounter.However I'm in the condor zone so will have to try copper soon.I love my 45 colt 1892 copy and have shot a 454 version,I think the 357 and the 45 will do it all between the two of them so I'm looking at a Rossi trapper in 357.Should be just plain handy.

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:25 am

awp - You sure are getting some good info here. Lots to chew on.

The easy annswer here would be: Just get all of 'em !

But maybe you're trying to narrow it down, so I'll add my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Right up front I should admit my bias towards the .45 Colt. I was shooting my Blackhawk today, along with several .45 acp semis.
One thing you need to read right away, to give you even more to chew on - hahaha - is John Linebaugh's great article: Dissolving the Myths: The .45 Colt. Just google it up.

Earlier in this thread Blaine mentioned the "mid-range loads" which I prefer. Since I'm not casting yet, I'm buying cast bullets from three of the best out there: Beartooth Bullets, Mt. Baldy Bullets, and Montana Bullet Works. All of these outfits produce great stuff.

"Mid-range" will mean different things to different folks, but for most of us it means 255 to 290 grain bullets, pushed somewhere between 950 to 1050 feet per second, maybe 1100.

These loads are just plain fun. Yes, you know you're shooting more than the cowboy shooters out there with their loads which poke along at 700 fps, but then, that's their deal. BUT, these mid-range loads are not punishing, and the muzzle blast which you definitely get with hotter .357 or .44 Mag loads is not present. THAT is the wonderful difference with the mid-range loads in the .45 Colt. Just pure pleasure shooting these loads.

With Keith type bullets, including the great RCBS-270-SAA bullet, you also get some pretty fine accuracy as a bonus.

All of the calibers you mention are great ones. But the great old .45 Colt is one that you just might find yourself falling in love with.
Good luck with your search and in your eventual choice. - DixieBoy

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:13 am

Even a 200gr RFN at 950FPS will throw up alot of dirt at 200 yards. Has very little recoil out of a stock 4 5/8" .45 Blackhawk. A 250gr RFN at 900fps has the stock grips feeling like sandpaper after 30 rounds. So will probably put some Pachmayars on it; if I use that for my standard load. Todd

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:32 pm

DixieBoy wrote:awp - You sure are getting some good info here. Lots to chew on.

Just what I was hoping for...

Thanks for the recoil info Griff, that's the kind of numbers I needed as a reference point. A few years ago I had a 6.5" .357/9mm New Model that I didn't care for in .357 configuration. I've discovered two things since then. I wasn't holding it correctly and the factory checkered plastic stocks aren't the best under recoil if held improperly. I was trying to hold and control it like a semi-auto. I didn't get the concept of letting it "roll" under recoil. I think a combination of proper hold and smooth wood stocks (or maybe even stag someday) will do the trick. Maybe some Wheaties for breakfast wouldn't hurt either.

I know I put the possibility of hunting out there but the odds of it ever happening are slim. The majority of the time will be paper and some steel. Looking at it that way, the .357 has a slight edge but if a .45 popped up in my price range first I certainly wouldn't be "settling" for anything.

The .41 is out and the .44 Special is a possibility only after the .357 and .45 are taken care of. Unless I find a screaming deal that is.

I'm starting to learn more than just the basics about the Blackhawks so I didn't realize some of the .44 Specials I was seeing were on BH frames. It appears they have more variations than Carter's has pills.

What I have pictured in my head is a 6.5" barreled Old Model with one of the no d&t scope mounts and a nice 2 or 3x handgun scope.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:34 pm

Jeff H wrote: Hope you guys aren't getting tired of these two pics.

Lipsey's Ruger .44 Special from the first run. Slicked, tuned, springs, Belt Mountain Base Pin and CLC Olivewood grips.

No, I could gander at it for quite a while...

Jeff H · Post by **Jeff H** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:13 pm

awp101 wrote:........No, I could gander at it for quite a while...

It's a sweetheart for sure. I thought the .41 mag. was available in that frame now, but haven't followed up on the rumor. It's not overly heavy for the .357 either really.

I think your idea of not passing up a good deal regardless of which of several preferred chamberingsw is about the most sound idea one could start with. You will likely try them all eventually and will always have that to look forward to. Whichever you chose, you'll wonder what you're missing in the others and may even eventually come full circle to the one you started with.

Personally, if I lost my stuff to some catastrophe and had to start over, I wouldn't necessarily wait out the exact same gun that I consider my perfect shooting companion. All those mentioned are great for all the reasons everyone has given. I just happen to prefer the 'Special myself.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:18 am

Jeff, I have the same Ruger - did the base pin help the accuracy?

Jeff H · Post by **Jeff H** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:02 am

Old Savage wrote:Jeff, I have the same Ruger - did the base pin help the accuracy?

Nope!

It came out of the box shooting like I have had to work for in anything else I have owned. I added the base pin because I can get a better grip on it, especially when it's below freezing outside. It's purely a luxury item and since I had the means at the time, I got it.

To be honest, I only shot my old Bulldog loads in it for a while before swapping the base pin and everything I have shot in it shoots at least as well as what I would consider an exceptionally promising load in any other revolver I have owned. I have yet to shoot anything in it that doesn't start out shooting at least as well as some did after some load development and tweaking. For concrete examples, Magma 240 grain SWCBBs, using the "Skeeter Load" cluster five shots touching at 15 yards and LEEs 208 WC over 5.5 grains W231 will do the same thing. RDO 265s over numerous starting loads have done as well. I have not had time to get out and shoot for groups at 25 or 50 yet, but can whack 1/2 scale sillhouetts at 25 yards without even holding my mouth right.

To be fair to Belt Mountain, I have had two OM .357s, an OM .357 converted to .44 Special and an OM .45 Colt in which the BM base pin did make a difference, most notably in the .357s and somewhat less in the laready good-shooting .44 Special conversion. The .45 Colt had been worked on by someone who knew his stuff decades previous and was already shooting pretty well, but the new base pin did show at least a minor improvement.

I make these statements of accuracy enhancement based on having already done everything else to each of those revolvers and using developed and established "accurate" loads for each. They don't always make a positive difference and sometimes (not often) they not only don't help but set you back a small step step accuracy-wise. If everything times out correctly, throats are sized right AND your original base-pin mic's slightly smaller, it may help. I don't necessarily look to the base-pin for a big improvement there, rather I apprecaiet the better gripping surface and if accuracy is better - all the better.

I even put a KT #5-type on my SS NM Bearcat because that little booger is a bear to pick out of there sometimes.

98% of my BM base-pin use has been for a little easier BP removal (not that I have ever had a lot of probelms with that) and I probably could have very easliy lived without them. The grips, on the other hand, were a MUST. The (new) factory black checkered plastic were too small on the thinner steel grip fram on this model for me.

Sorry for the windy response, but it's not often I get to share what I have experienced with my SAs. Only one guy I work with shoots and I haven't "been out" much this summer.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:32 am

Thanks for the info. There seems to be a little too much play in the cylinder in mine, Rugers vary in that way. Haven't tried much in it yet. I will have to get on of the base pins and see how that works, oldguy has one in a 44 mag that I was impressed with.

retmech · Post by **retmech** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:11 pm

240grn 44mag at 1144fps generates a Recoil Energy of 8.0lbs with a recoil Velocity of 11.2fps
240grn 44mag at 1200fps generates a Recoil Energy of 8.9lbs with a recoil Velocity of 11.8fps

CO Steve--I think you got some numbers crossed in your recoil figures:
The .44 mag @ 1200 fps with a 240- gr Bullet does not recoil the same as a .357 with a 158 @ 1250. The Recoil calculator at http://handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp shows free recoil of a 1200 fps 240 gr. .44 mag load in a 2.5 lb gun at 17.7 ft lbs and the .357 load at 8.15 lbs

Personally the .45 colt is probably better as a hunting gun but if a fellow likes to shoot a lot the .357 is more versatile and requires way way less lead!

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:59 pm

retmech wrote:
240grn 44mag at 1144fps generates a Recoil Energy of 8.0lbs with a recoil Velocity of 11.2fps
240grn 44mag at 1200fps generates a Recoil Energy of 8.9lbs with a recoil Velocity of 11.8fps
CO Steve--I think you got some numbers crossed in your recoil figures:
The .44 mag @ 1200 fps with a 240- gr Bullet does not recoil the same as a .357 with a 158 @ 1250. The Recoil calculator at http://handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp shows free recoil of a 1200 fps 240 gr. .44 mag load in a 2.5 lb gun at 17.7 ft lbs and the .357 load at 8.15 lbs

Handloads recoil calculator requires a powder charge weight so I didn't use it. Beartooth bullets Balistic Recoil Calculatorgives totally different numbers but it will give you something without a powder charge so now I don't know what to think.

Jeff H · Post by **Jeff H** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:20 pm

Old Savage wrote:Thanks for the info. There seems to be a little too much play in the cylinder in mine, Rugers vary in that way. Haven't tried much in it yet. I will have to get on of the base pins and see how that works, oldguy has one in a 44 mag that I was impressed with.

Mic yours and see if it's smaller than .2495".
From BM's site:
"All Belt Mountain Ruger base pins are Hardened, Centerless Ground to .2495" Diameter, and Handsomely finished."

I have never had to use the locking screws either, as I have only once personally witnessed one jump - it wasn't even mine, I wasn't shooting it and, it was on a NM .357, no less. I know it happens but I can't personally "sell" that point because I have never had to rely on it - not even on my SBHs and I was pushing a lot of max loads at one time.

336A · Post by **336A** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:25 pm

I got the itch for a Ruger BH this year as well, I ended up getting a .41 mag with the 4 5/8" barrel. It is my favorite big bore revolver cartridge however the .44SPL was a strong contender. I do reload for it but even if I didn't I would have still bought it. There is plenty of ammo offered for it if one looks around such as Appalachian ammo and Reed's ammo to name but a couple. Components aren't to hard to come either or at least that has been my experience. I got some Sierra and Hornady 210gr bullets, starline brass. and some cast 215gr SWC. With some of the quicker loads she does buck a bit but my all time favorite load is 8.5gr of Unique under the 215gr SWC which is close to 1100fps. The above load is much more comfortable to shoot and is very accurate.

I have no doubt that it will do anything that I'm likely to tackle with it. The one detractor (IMHO) that everyone holds against the .41 mag is that it is claimed to be overly expensive. It is my belief that the sole offering from Remington is what has led to this, that stuff is priced out of this world. However I bought a box of Speer 210gr DCHP ammo and it was $1 cheaper than what was being charged for a box of 240gr Speer DCHP .44 mag. SO much for being overly expensive save for the sole Rem offering.

retmech · Post by **retmech** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:33 pm

CO--just tried the Beartooth calculator using 20 grs of powder for the .44 and 13 grs for the .357. While BT's recoil numbers are smaller ( 14 ft lbs and 6 ft lbs.) than Handloads numbers of (17.7 and 7.4 ft lbs) the ratio between the .357 recoil and .44 mag is the .44 has more than twice the recoil of the .357.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:02 pm

Howdy Boys!

Quick note: I'll take my BH in .45 Colt thank you...conclude what you want....

LB

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:51 am

I had a .41 Blackhawk and one in 357 Mag. The 357 is cheaper to feed so, I sold the .41 . Like with an automobile, buying a gun is only the initial investment. Feeding it is what can get expensive.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:26 am

Gary wrote:I had a .41 Blackhawk and one in 357 Mag. The 357 is cheaper to feed so, I sold the .41 . Like with an automobile, buying a gun is only the initial investment. Feeding it is what can get expensive.

Your pic brings up something I have considered. I already have a Marlin .357 and a .357 Cadet but no .45 Colt rifle. I've had a couple of the '92 "clones" (one carbine, one rifle) and they just didn't do anything for me.

Of course I'd need to keep the Ruger/Marlin top end loads away from the Cadet...

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:22 pm

Given the fact you don't reload yet and other content of your post, I feel a .357 Magnum would be a good choice for you. A 357 round will do 99.5% of every thing we want a handgun to do. The extra plus is the great selection of 38 Special ammo that can be fired in the pistol.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:03 pm

I'm a big fan of the 41 Magnum, but as you don't reload, I'd
get the .357 as my first choice. Ammo is A LOT cheaper, and
there are lots of choices, 38 Special included. 45 Colt would
be my second choice if I didn't reload, because it's more common
and still lots cheaper than 41 Magnum ammunition. (I saw $56
and change for a box of 41 Mag ammo the other day. $56 I tell ya!!!
If I didn't load my own, I couldn't afford to shoot the caliber....)

Reloading? Hmmm... The 357 is still a great cartridge. The 41
can be downloaded to really comfortable levels and still be
quite effective as a self-defense load - sorta like the 44 Special
is to the 44 magnum. So can the 45 Colt, which has the indisputable
advantage of making a bigger hole in anything it hits than either
of the other cartridges mentioned.

Were I you in your circumstances now, I'd start with the 357. 45 Colt
would be next, and then the 41 Magnum; mainly for economic reasons.

-Stretch