New To the Forum, Introduction, and .45 Colt load questions.

rantingredneck · Post by **rantingredneck** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:32 am

Gentlemen,

I stumbled upon your fine forum while browsing for information on .45 Colt loads for Whitetail deer. More on that in a minute....

By way of introduction, I'm a life long shooter and hunter and a lifelong resident of NC. Grandfather put a Marlin Model 60 in my hands when I was 9 and it's been a blast since then. I'm a NC Hunter's Ed Instructor. I'm primarily a deer hunter though I dabble in other game pursuits such as wild turkey (the feathered kind), dove, squirrel, and rabbit hunting. I also do a fair bit of fishing in the warmer months. I've lately also discovered the joys of competitive shooting and I'm a regular competitor in the local Ruger Rimfire Series matches with .22LR Semis of the Ruger variety. I'm active at our local forum (carolinashootersforum.com where I'm an admin), and some of the national broad-interest forums (thefiringline.com, thehighroad.org, and rugerforum.net). All under the same username.

But back to what brings me to leverguns.com......

I recently acquired a 5.5" .45Colt/.45ACP Blackhawk Convertible along with a Rossi/Puma M92 in .45 Colt. It's the Scout model with the factory forward mounted scope and cheek piece. Haven't shot either much as I just this past weekend got setup to load this caliber. Factory ammo, even the soft LRN cowboy loads, are outrageously priced.

I'm starting with a load that's 18.6 gr. of Hodgdon's Lil Gun under a 260gr. WFN .454 hardcast bullet. No gas check. I've got some loads at 19.1 and 20.1 gr. as well (what my Lee Autodisk is throwing).

Planning to shoot the three and see what the gun(s) like (hopefully the same thing). In my reading here I'm seeing that maybe Lil Gun isn't exactly the powder of choice that I thought it was when I bought it (based on other reviews). I'd be interested to hear other's experience with Lil Gun in the 92 and Blackhawk specifically.

Thanks for having me on board..........

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:44 am

And a big Hearty Welcome to Ya rantingredneck (whew-hafta shorten that one in future responses)pull up a stump, a log ,a bucket or whatever is Handy and sit a spell.
Caint help U with loads but I will be interested to c what others say as I am set up to load that caliber also.

rantingredneck · Post by **rantingredneck** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:47 am

I answer to "RR" in most places

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:52 am

So We will have an RR and an RR7.
Meant to ask, where in NC. I have a Friend that lives in Morganton.

rantingredneck · Post by **rantingredneck** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:59 am

I've lived the last 12 years in the southern end of Alamance County (Graham area). I grew up in Fayetteville though and went to school at Appalachian State (class of 96). Morganton wasn't far from ASU. Had to make a couple of trips there when I was in school.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:10 pm

RR,

Welcome to the forum. Glad you joined.

I've never used Lilgun but I hear is good stuff. I just hope that 5.5" BH convertible of yours is the full sized Blackhawk and not the mid frame flattop they just brought out.

Joe

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:25 pm

A .45 Colt Rossi has become one of my main 'go-to' guns around the homestead:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=31062

With the Burris Fastfire-II/LaserMax UniMax combination (on a B-Square QD mount), and a light clipped onto the under-magazine rail, it is ready-to-go for possums in the henhouse, coyotes in the goat-pen or whatever else goes 'bump in the night'. Low noise and flash, so I don't have to go blind and deaf like the guys who tote their AR-15's out for night-duty.

I think Lil'Gun may be at its best for pretty stout loads, but I've also read it somehow generates more heat than other powders so best not to use in rapid-shooting applications.

Anyhow - I think you'll like the pair of .45 guns quite a bit...!

rantingredneck · Post by **rantingredneck** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:10 pm

J Miller wrote:RR,

Welcome to the forum. Glad you joined.

I've never used Lilgun but I hear is good stuff. I just hope that 5.5" BH convertible of yours is the full sized Blackhawk and not the mid frame flattop they just brought out.

Joe

It is indeed the full sized and not the Lipsey's edition flattop. Made sure of that one.

rantingredneck · Post by **rantingredneck** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:14 pm

AJMD429 wrote:A .45 Colt Rossi has become one of my main 'go-to' guns around the homestead:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=31062

With the Burris Fastfire-II/LaserMax UniMax combination (on a B-Square QD mount), and a light clipped onto the under-magazine rail, it is ready-to-go for possums in the henhouse, coyotes in the goat-pen or whatever else goes 'bump in the night'. Low noise and flash, so I don't have to go blind and deaf like the guys who tote their AR-15's out for night-duty.

I think Lil'Gun may be at its best for pretty stout loads, but I've also read it somehow generates more heat than other powders so best not to use in rapid-shooting applications.

Anyhow - I think you'll like the pair of .45 guns quite a bit...!

Yeah, I've been reading that it can heat the barrel if rapid fired. This is more of a hunting load than a plinking load so I think I'll be good to go there. I've got some lightweight cowboy bullets and Titegroup or 231 for plinkers.

Thanks for everyone's welcome and input so far!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:23 pm

I think if you look around on http://GunBlast.com, Jeff Quin has some loads using Lil'Gun for just about every cartridge known to man, and some not invented yet.

http://AmmoGuide.com shows 14 Lil'Gun loads (out of 185 total) for .45 Colt, six of the Lil'Gun ones even show results in 'rifle' length barrels; the Lil'Gun loads range from 200 grain jacketed to 405 grain cast bullets. Ammoguide membership ($19) agreement prohibits just copying and pasting their load data, but it is one of the first places I check; they also post and reference manufacturer's load data, which helps me be sure I'm not out on a limb without realizing it.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:33 pm

welcome to the fire hope u enjoy

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:07 pm

and Welcome to THE Forum.

While most of us know what a Ruger BH and Rossi 92 look like, we're a visual group... mostly because some of us can't read well!

So, when I saay:

It's mainly to get you started off on the right foot AND help those that need help!

I'll also note that Hodgdon lists 21 grains as a max load for Rugers and a 260 grain jacketed bullet. That'd be a load I'd approach with caution. At 1300+fps outta the handgun, it'd be smokin' in a carbine. With a plain base lead boolit it might give you leading issues without the right alloy & lube.

Look forward to a range report, tho'. For my .45Colts, (I am glad to see you got the name right

), I'm partial to RedDot, 700X, 5744 and the original powder.

edwardyoung · Post by **edwardyoung** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:34 pm

Welcome to a fellow CSF-er. The good news is that most everyone here is a grown-up. No mall ninjas.

rantingredneck · Post by **rantingredneck** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:46 pm

Griff wrote:

Sir, Yes Sir!

rantingredneck · Post by **rantingredneck** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:47 pm

edwardyoung wrote:Welcome to a fellow CSF-er. The good news is that most everyone here is a grown-up. No mall ninjas.

Howdy Edward. Good to see you.

Also good news on the grown-up atmosphere..........a refreshing change.........

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:05 pm

RR,
Welcome to one of the best places on the internet inhabited by some of the best people you will ever have the pleasure of associating with.

Stan in SC
(A fellow CSF member.)

rantingredneck · Post by **rantingredneck** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:12 pm

Another familiar face......

Thanks Stan.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:37 pm

Welcome !!

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:42 pm

I like Lil'Gun but don't use it with bullets of 300 gr. or less in the .45 Colt because, in my experience, H110/W296 is more efficient. HOWEVER, there isn't really anything wrong with it.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:40 pm

IT'S HIGH TIME YOU FOUND YER' WAY BACK HOME...MA'S BEEN WORRIED SICK & PA'S ABOUT AT THE END OF HIS ROPE WONDERIN' WHERE YOU BEEN. SO HAVE ALL OF US...YOU KNOW HOW MANY POTS OF 'JOE WE'VE MADE WAITIN' FER YA? A WHOLE RANGE FULL PARD. I'M SICK & TIRED OF 'SPLAININ' WHY YER NOT HERE....EVEN THE DEER & BEAR ARE TWIDDLIN' THEIR PAWS WAITIN' FOR YA...

Glad you made it home Pard...found the way home did ye?

LB
Share some pard...looking forward to your posts.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:32 pm

Welcome. I think you'll find this place a very friendly and informative atmosphere.

longarm4146 · Post by **longarm4146** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:51 pm

RR, welcome to the fire. Wish I could help you with the powder /bullet combination, but like Hobie I much prefer H110 or Win 296 as well as 250 and 300 XTP for my hunting and SD loads in 45 Colt. As for cowboys loads, I go through about 3-4 thousand a year, and use Titegroup exclusivly. You ought ta come play cowboy with us sometime, we're only an hour away. Good to have anothe CSF member here.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:05 pm

Welcome aboard!

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:34 pm

rantingredneck wrote:
Griff wrote:
Sir, Yes Sir!

that will do, as you were.

oh, welcome home.

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:09 am

Yes, indeed wellcome. I also shoot a lot of 45 Colt and will be looking at a lot of the same posts. I shoot two Beretta Stampedes and a Beretta Laramie as well as a 1873 Uberti. I hpoe to shoot my first deer with thwe 1873 this fall. I think 250 gr..454 dia. rnfp with 9 gr. Unique.
Less powder for the pistols.

Owen

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:32 am

hightime wrote:Yes, indeed wellcome. I also shoot a lot of 45 Colt and will be looking at a lot of the same posts. I shoot two Beretta Stampedes and a Beretta Laramie as well as a 1873 Uberti. I hpoe to shoot my first deer with thwe 1873 this fall. I think 250 gr..454 dia. rnfp with 9 gr. Unique.
Less powder for the pistols.

Owen

Owen,
The 9.0gr Unique load produces between 16,000 and 17,000 PSI. It is equivalent to the old 40grs Black Powder load velocity wise.
The 45 ACP has a SAAMI pressure level of 21,000 PSI. Every gun maker since the ACP was invented has made guns available in that caliber. Every gun chambered for the .45 Colt by every maker you can think of will have either an ACP cylinder or a sister model chambered in .45 ACP. Uberti and the other Italian manufacturers as well.

What that means is that 9.0grs of Unique may well exceed SAAMI specs for the .45 Colt cartridge, but it does not exceed the ability of the gun to handle the load safely.

Joe

Wrangler John · Post by **Wrangler John** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:47 am

Back in the day I used a Colt New Frontier in .45 Colt for IHMSA competition. Yes I know, it isn't what could be called a target revolver and it is the weakest of the modern revolvers, but I wanted a challenge. Here's what I learned, a load of W296 and the Hornady 250 XTP bullet produced the greatest accuracy (I won't suggest a charge because the load is no longer published). Use Hornady's manual for loads of AA#9 today.

The absolute most important thing in using any of the slower spherical powders W296/H110 (they are the same powder) and AA#9 is to use a MAGNUM large pistol primer and a heavy roll crimp. Same with slower extruded powders, a heavy roll crimp is essential to uniform ignition. To get a uniform crimp, the cases have to be trimmed to the same length, this may require trimming to the shortest case in any lot of brass, adopt this case length as your standard. I had hangfires and excessive pressures with standard large pistol primers, so don't mix them up. Accuracy suffered with a light crimp across all platforms, and extends to .44 Mag and .480 Ruger cartridges. An obsessive shooter can also use a large pistol primer pocket uniforming tool to obtain the same primer seating depth, a real boost to accuracy.

I also noted that many .45 Colt sizing and expanding dies do not result in cases that grip the bullet solidly. The bullet can actually be rotated and moved in the case without a crimp. In this instance performance will suffer. I use a .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim/.45 Colt carbide die to size the neck portion of the case and a .45 ACP expander to expand the case neck and mouth. This produces a better bullet pull.

Standard large pistol primers are fine with Unique or faster powders. My favorite .45 Colt load is 8.0 grains of Unique with a 250 grain cast bullet. Great practice load. I still use the same crimp die setting for this load.

These loads and techniques also worked in the Colt Anaconda, Contender, my Blackhawk convertible and should work in a Redhawk, my Redhawk is .44 Magnum so I must leave that to others.

The .45 ACP cylinder turns the Ruger Blackhawk convertible into a target pistol, delivering astounding accuracy. I used the same load as my custom built heavy slide 1911 target pistol, a 180 grain semi-wadcutter cast bullet over 3.0 grains of Bullseye. It would cut the x-ring out of the 25 yard target with anything falling outside the 10 ring being my fault. I reworked the trigger to a crisp 3 lb pull and the Colt had a 2 lb trigger, but I don't recommend this for any but advanced shooters with a lot of experience, or for a hunting revolver, 4 lbs should be fine for these.

Consistent ammo should shoot well in both the rifle and revolver, but there is no guarantee this will happen. Still, using precision techniques will better the chance of success.

piller · Post by **piller** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:04 am

I have used the Li'l Gun and the H110/W296 and prefer the H110/W296 as I get better accuracy and consistency from them. The Li'l Gun works better with 300 grain or heavier bullets for me. For carbine loads, I prefer the H4227 as it gives a huge velocity increase in the longer barrel vs what it does in the pistol and does so at the benefit of less barrel heating.

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:42 pm

Welcome to the fire. Grab a cup of jo and join in on the jawin!

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:24 pm

Welcome to one of the finest forums on the net.

rantingredneck · Post by **rantingredneck** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:40 pm

Well folks, you'll be happy to know that the Rossi '92 has drawn it's first blood.

I settled on a load of 20.1 grains of Lil' Gun which is launching these 260 gr. Hardcast WFN bullets at 1750-ish avg according to the chrono.

This fella here had the misfortune to step out in a clearing about 50-60 yards away. I actually missed him with the first shot, darn buck fever I suppose. He snapped to attention, but didn't move. Second shot hit him right around the third rib and quartered through his vitals exiting just forward of his off-side shoulder. He jumped up like his rear was on fire and ran about 30 yards before CRASHING in a pile in the woods. No trouble finding him. He didn't go far and left behind a blood trail that Ray Charles could follow.

I'm liking the big bore pistol caliber levergun. A lot of the stands I hunt have 50-60 yard max shots and thick stuff nearby for deer to run and hide in. Big bullets make big holes..............

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:06 pm

Well..... nice buck, congrats. sure must have been handy haveing a luggage handle on that rifle,as it was alot to tote with dragging that deer an all. My advise for both revolver an longgun was Elmer Kieths load for the Colt of 18.5gr of 2400. but You allready have a winner.

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:35 pm

Welcome, RR. If you're looking for a decent 'Ruger Load' that won't set the grass on fire with each shot, I covered a couple in this article.

http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/2010 ... -none.html

Boreman · Post by **Boreman** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:40 pm

RR,
Welcome to the forum.This is a great place to be. I think you will like it here!!

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:16 am

Lite & set Pard...have a nice warm cot in the bunkhouse for 'ya...

Try this std. load....any cast 250-270gr. Keith....10 grs. unique with any case & std. primer. It will be a top load in a Colt, but just a midrange load in a Ruger. 9.0 grs. in a Uberti was super. Worked for me!!!!

LB

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:24 am

nice deer--great shot--good choice in guns and caliber--enjoy yourself here--this forum has the best info...great people.

CaptainFinn · Post by **CaptainFinn** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:45 pm

Wow, nice deer !!!

I have two 92's and two Ruger Bisley-Vaquero's in .45 Colt on deck this year for deer season. Little sister is flying up Sunday fromFlorida after JROTC State Qualifications and we are gonna try and get her her first deer.

My 'go-to' load is the 300 grain LBT LFNGC over 24 gr of H110, it shoots like a laser from both leverguns and the revolvers. I took my Rossi 92 SRC and mounted a 3x-9x scope on it with the B-Square QD mount. Going to sight it in this week. Hopefully my wife and my little sister won't permanently adopt this gun as their own...

How did you like the scout scope setup on your gun, and what optics did you use ?

rantingredneck · Post by **rantingredneck** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:08 am

I'm still figuring out whether I like the scout scope setup or not. It came that way from the factory with the cheek piece included as well. Scope is a Nikko-Sterling 2.5x32. Not the greatest scope in the world but so far has held zero well and is clear.

I may at some point switch it out for a leupold, nikon, or redfield LER/Scout/Pistol scope, but for now it's working.

One thing I'm definitely going to do before too much longer is replace the safety in the bolt with one of the peep sights available for that purpose.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:36 pm

Nice looking deer. Looks like some good eats! Congrats!

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:47 pm

Yes, nice deer and thanks for the load.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:28 pm

Welcome to the board. We are all a pretty nonchalante bunch here

You may be surprised how many members are staff members and such on other boards.

There doesn't seem to be much need for a large staff here. Hoby takes care that that needs it without much fanfare.

I admittedly enjoy my time spent on the other boards too...

But the lack of need for the large staff is probably one of the reasons that we are all here, and the types that hang here, sharing our leveritis...ness.

And for a good deer load, I would suggest looking to Power Pistol with a good 255 grain Keith boolit.