Colt's Bisley 44 sp Target Conversion - Pics Added

[71fan]

I have been oogling over a Colt's Frontier Six Shooter that I need assistance putting a value on. It is a 4-3/4" barrel, Bisley grip, that appears to have been converted in the 50s (based on sights) to a 44 sp with "Micro" front and adjustable rear sights. Serial is in the 283xxx range. The gun has been refinished in all blue, but the polish and bluing were done very well and all edges and stampings remain crisp. It has the original rubber grips. The cylinder is definitely a replacement, but is Colt's. Lock up and trigger is excellent. Overall it appears to a very well done conversion and remains in about 99% condition as re-done.

I really like it. I like 1st gen Colts. 44 special is my caliber. I like the original conversions. When I hold it and point it I can't help but think of Elmer Keith.

So, to the point. The seller is willing to sell, but each time I look at it he says "make an offer" and hasn't given me any indication of where the offer needs to be. I want to, and I think he'll be reasonable, but I can't even figure out where to start. Is this a $500 wreck or a $2,000 jewel?

HELP PLEASE!! Any advise, comments, experience is greatly appreciated.

(...and no, I don't have any pictures, but I will if y'all help me get it in my safe )

TIA

[M. M. Wright]

The last two Bisleys I sold were not as nice as this one sounds but were great shooters in 44-40. I got around $1600 each. Offer him $1500. The sights and refinish kill it's collector value but a good shooter 1st generation Colt is worth at least that. There are smiths around who could fix those sights for you so they would look original.

I've never liked the look or feel of the Bisley as much as I like the "standard" SAA but I find that I can shoot them better. Have been known to shoot a pair of them in Frontier Cartridge Duelist class.

[gak]

I agree that it's a very attractive combination, but as nice as it may be to you (and me--.44Sp is my fave too), sorry to tell the seller that the first poster, above, is right about the collector value having been badly damaged: 1) conversion, 2) refinish and 3) Bisley, a niche market to begin with. From direct and recent personal experience helping.a friend sell your exact same combination, $1200 is the most you can expect IMO, and that may be with some waiting. I wouldn't say
$1500 is impossible, but probably a longer wait yet for whoever sells, I'd keep and enjoy. You don't say whether the cylinder replacement is a 2nd or 1st Gen (you can usually tell by a front edge bevel on the latter that doesn't look "added"). Slight difference in $$ if the conversion is all or most 1st Gen. If 2nd, I'd say deduct another $100. Barrel change probably (maybe) less critical. I'd say neither a wreck or jewel. I'd offer $1000, and go no further north than $1250.

[Hobie]

I was thinking $1100-1300 as a fair price. It is a parts gun. A shooter. No collector value. WHO did the conversion (King for example) might up the value. If paying an EXTRA $200 or so won't kill you and you intend to keep it you might be happy at $1500 or so. Not to worry, none of it goes with you when you leave this world.

[kimwcook]

I think M.M.Wright and gak are both right in the ball park. New 3rd gens are going for 1200-1300. Collector's value is totally gone because you can't get the original cylinder back and who knows how it came from the factory. I once bought a really nice nickeled Colt 1st gen Bisley in 38 special. I just couldn't get used to the Bisley's underturned grip so I wanted to sell it. I had three well known local Colt collectors contact me about the piece and two of them over the phone told me the same price they'd give me because it wasn't an original 38 special. The third guy looked at it and he too was right with the others. It'd been converted so it wasn't one of the really rare 38 specials. Sold it for quite a loss. It was a beautiful piece and the nickel was just outstanding. I'd offer him what you're comfortable parting with. If it talks to you the value is more what you're willing to pay for it other than what it's really worth according to someone else.

[Pete44ru]

I was thinking $1100-1300 as a fair price. It is a parts gun. A shooter. No collector value. WHO did the conversion (King for example) might up the value. If paying an EXTRA $200 or so won't kill you and you intend to keep it you might be happy at $1500 or so. Not to worry, none of it goes with you when you leave this world.

+1 - I'm with Hobie: Offer $1000, especially since the seller's playing cute ILO forthright about pricing it.

.

[71fan]

This is great information - thanks to all of you. I knew I had come to the right place (af course).

I was thinking I'd offer about $800 adn see what happened, but now it looks like more may be warranted. I am not considering as a collector, but rather as a unique shooter with a pretty decent pedigree. Side-by-side with a 3rd gen (which would be $1,100 to $1,300), I'd much rather have the 1st gen conversion, so that tells me right there that a price in that range is reasonable.

Also, I believe the cylinder is 2nd gen, but the barrel is 1st gen (the "Frontier Six Shooter" is still visible).

So....based on what y'all have said, I think I'll go in at $900 and be prepared to barter up to $1,100.

Thanks so much!!

[Griff]

Those guys are sure generous. Being refinished, conversion and sights that're in no way part of the model line, I'd start down around $800. If the sights are immaterial to you, I'd still figure on deducting to cost to put original sights back on the gun from the value of one that was unaltered, except for the refinish job.

Going up after he declines your 1st offer is easy, but when he jumps on your first bid, you offered too much.

[71fan]

Going up after he declines your 1st offer is easy, but when he jumps on your first bid, you offered too much.

I like the gun just the way it is and would not be looking to change anything. I like the sights. It's been milled and altered to accept the adustable sights, which is one of teh things that attracts me. If it had S&W rear sights that would be much better, but the Micro is still a decent, period setup.

I like your advice on the starting price - very well put. Maybe even $750 and work from there.

[pwl44m]

By the same token , don't make Him mad. be generous yet conservative- U betcha.

[71fan]

I thought about it for three months. I went back two weeks ago thinking if he still has it, it was meant to be, and I'd make an offer. He did, so I did. I offered 7, he countered at 9, we settled on $800

Picked it up today after the ten day CA waiting period. I'm happy. It's a very nice handling six shooter. Very tight action, awesome trigger, nice sights, and well done re-blue, and most important, the great balance. It comes up with one hand just as easy as can be with the sight picture right on target. It's a natural pointer for me.

I'll have pics up within the next day or so. Thanks again everyone for helping feed my addiction(s).

[M. M. Wright]

Congratulations! I think it's a great buy. The barrel should be marked COLT FRONTIER SIX SHOOTER, (BISLEY MODEL). If the cylinder has the rampant colt stamped on the rear, you can see it through the loading gate if you rotate the cylinder, it's a 2nd generation. Hope you enjoy it.

I've never liked the look or feel of the Bisley, but I shoot them very well and that hammer is much easier to cock one-handed. Guess the good shooting is why I tend to keep one or three around. You could find an original 44-40 cylinder and have it fitted to the gun and have a convertible.

[pwl44m]

Good for You,a 1st Gen that looks good and shoots for $800 will be hard to find.
I am still toying with a 1st gen 38-40 at a local Hock shop on consignment. You sound like You have My patience 71
Perry

[Mike D.]

I believe that you did quite well, especially considering today's Colt market. Despite difficult economic times collector items, guns included, have done very well. Much better that holding cash in the bank. Inflation is eating away at any gains, so investing in valuable commodities is a far better option. I do realize that 2nd and 3rd gen Colts are also rising in value but they leave me cold. IMM, spending a few more bucks for a 1st Gen gun is always the best "bang" for your buck.

[kimwcook]

71fan, great. When you get it home give us some pics and a range report.

[71fan]

The more I play with it, the more I realize this is a very nice conversion. I feel very fortunate to have acquired this little jewel. And it compliments my 3rd gen 44 sp quite nicely, I think. Here she is.....

[71fan]

Congratulations! I think it's a great buy. The barrel should be marked COLT FRONTIER SIX SHOOTER, (BISLEY MODEL). If the cylinder has the rampant colt stamped on the rear, you can see it through the loading gate if you rotate the cylinder, it's a 2nd generation. Hope you enjoy it.

I've never liked the look or feel of the Bisley, but I shoot them very well and that hammer is much easier to cock one-handed. Guess the good shooting is why I tend to keep one or three around. You could find an original 44-40 cylinder and have it fitted to the gun and have a convertible.

Affirmative on the barrel markings (although it's quite light) and the 2nd gen cylinder. And that's a great idea about the 44-40 cylinder....thanks!!

[M. M. Wright]

Thanks for the pics. Sweet old gun. If you can find a cylinder in 32-20, .357 etc. it can be re-chambered to 44-40 and fitted to the gun without disturbing the fit of the current cylinder. The guy I go to is Alan Harton in Houston. Best there is.

Can't wait for you to tell us how it shoots.

[Borregos]

Very nice
I am a great fan of the Bisley grips, both for looks and for my big hands

[Mike D.]

Very nice Colt, but that front sight has to go. I ruins the look of the elegant Bisley.

[rjohns94]

Very nice I like it

[kimwcook]

Looks great. I agree with Mike though, the front sight doesn't quite look right. I thought I'd be put off by the rear sight as well, but it melds well with the top strap and overall appearance. I like the Ruger Bisley and FA type grip, but the Colt Bisley grip never fit me well or I'd still have one.

[Malamute]

I think you did well, it looks like a well done refinish on a very classy gun.

I'm with some others, the sights leave something to be desired as far as esthetics. I've been considering having one of my Ruger Vaqueros resighted. I'll use a Smith K frame rear, inletted into the top strap, and have a front made to look like a Colt Flat Top Target. It won't have elevation adjustment, as the rear will accomplish that, but is a small and clean looking front for an adjustable rear. The factory Ruger and Colt New Frontier fronts aren't at all attractive to me. Brownells used to have Uberti Flat Top Target front sights available as a part.

[Griff]

Very good! I agree, the Flat Top Target front sight would look much better! Cool piece... and with a .44-40 cylinder to go with it... even better still.

[Buck Elliott]

Well, i'm glad you like it.. I suppose that's what counts..

For my sensibilities, the sights, especially the front, are visually overwhelming.. They do nothing for the gun that a tidier set of sights would not do, except detract from its appearance, and mess with its balance..

Someone mentioned "replacing" the original sights...... 'Fraid not, unless you want to weld up the topstrap and recut the groove.. Front sight would have been a regular, Colt's shark-fin..

Whoever did the refinish job did the gun no favors, either.. It is obvious, from the photos, that the frame and grip straps were polished separately and then reassembled.. They should be polished all together, as an assembled unit. The edges have been dubbed, and it shows.

Have you slugged the barrel, to determine bore and groove diameter? That could prove worthwhile, as would measuring chamber throats..

As has also been mentioned, a new .44 WCF cylinder could be made from a .38 Spl., or .357 Mag cylinder, or even a .38 WCF cylinder.. You might get lucky and find a .41 Long Colt cylinder in some smith's bottom drawer... A .38-40 cylinder would be easiest to rework.

Visually, what started out as a trim little shooter has evolved into something that reminds me too much of the long-gone and un-lamented Herter's PowerMag, from the J.P. Sauer factory...

[Mike D.]

I have always been fond of the Bisley Model; it actually fills my hand better than the Model P SA. I own both in 1st Gen guns and find myself carrying the Bisley more often. I have both .38 and .44 W.C.F and sure would like one in .32 W.C.F. Back when Christy was still doing business they offered cylinders and barrels in .25-20 but I played stupid and failed to buy several when the chance came up.

[71fan]

Thanks for all the input guys.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I thinks it's a great looking piece. It's a period conversion from a time long gone and I appreciate it for what it is. I have no illusions about it's collectibility and have no intention of changing anything on it, except perhaps the additional cylinder. It's a hunting sidearm with panache, that should shoot the eyeball out of a jackrabbit at 50 paces (I can always hope).

On to the next.....