Opinion Wanted: .22 Stevens Ammo Test

[FatJackDurham]

I'd like some input on this ammo test, and what the results mean from the more experienced shooters and smiths here.

I am getting closer to deciding to have my Stevens Favorite Model 1894 relined. Some advice I got at the range was to go down to Walmart and get small boxes of several different ammos and see if the gun liked one better than the other.

The ammo I tested in order was:
CCI Stinger, 32 grain copper plated hollow point, 1640 fps,
Remington Thunderbolt high velocity, 40 grain lead round nose, 1255 fps,
Winchester Super X high velocity, 37 grain copper plated hollow point, 1280 fps
Remington Subsonic, 38 grain lead hollow point, 1050 fps

Not tested today, but previously shot, CCI Standard Velocity, 40 grain lead round nose, 1070 fps. I bring it up because the sound was very similar to the sub sonic, but with different results.

I shot five each, in a row, then repeated the cycle.

All targets .ONLY 25 yards.....

The Stingers.


The Thunderbolts


The SuperXs


The Subsonics


Okay, my own observations.

First and obviously, the lower the rated muzzle velocity, the tighter the group. Except... The Subsonics... Every few rounds, the sound was vastly different. The normal shot, sort of a "pffft", very similar to the CCI Standard Velocity. But, the sub sonics had plenty of loud cracks, every fourth round or so. Reminded me of my old Hopkins and Allen I had that would rupture a few rounds now and again. Except, none of the Subsonic cases we ruptured. However they were filthy coming out of the breech.

My barrel is severely worn and pitted. I had it lapped, but it didn't do much good. After firing forty rounds through, during clean out, EVERY pass with the brush, patch, jag and lead cloth produced shards of shiny lead.

What I think is happening is this. The pits in the bores are taking nicks out of the bullets. The higher the velocity, the more the bullet spreads in the bore, the more gets nicked off. However, in the case of the Subsonic rounds, the roughness of the bore cause the round to slow enough occasionally to cause back pressure to force a small backfire. Could this be true?

The Standard Velocity rounds are rated slightly faster, but had the same subsonic sound as the Subsonic rounds. However, they never back fired.

I didn't adjust the sights at all during the test. I did buy a Kentucky style front sight and a flip up adjustable read sight at a gun show this weekend that I fitted to the rifle. Just playing around, but the Kentucky sight made a nice thin pillar and I am reasonable confident my sight picture was consistent enough through the test to not have skewed the results.

So, the questions I have:
is my interpretation of the subsonic backfire plausible
Should groupings with different ammo be more consistent
Is a relining pretty much due?

[adirondakjack]

Try some .22 shorts.

[FatJackDurham]

Try some .22 shorts.

Though of that, but opted for the subsonic for the chamber match.

[AJMD429]

I do know that 'subsonics' aren't always subsonic, and that they tend to be close enough to the Mach-1 threshold, that in given conditions of temperature and so on, an occasional one may give the more normal 'high-velocity' sound.

Dunno how much that is a factor, but I've definitely noticed it with my firearms...

[BigSky56]

you could try some copper coated ammo like aguila should take care of the leading problem, available thru graf & sons. danny

[FatJackDurham]

you could try some copper coated ammo like aguila should take care of the leading problem, available thru graf & sons. danny

Yeah, that was suggested, on the assumption that the copper plate "lubricates" along the barrel. Two of the four were copper plate, though, and didn't make much difference.

[FatJackDurham]

I do know that 'subsonics' aren't always subsonic, and that they tend to be close enough to the Mach-1 threshold, that in given conditions of temperature and so on, an occasional one may give the more normal 'high-velocity' sound.

Dunno how much that is a factor, but I've definitely noticed it with my firearms...

I wondered the same thing. However, my experience with the "Standard Velocity" sounds, and the vastly noticeable diffence in the sound and echo (a steep hillside just one hundred twenty yards at front) leads me to believe that the round was sub sonic and dropped. Also, the crack was different than the high velocity rounds. I had forgotten my ear plugs, you see. All other rounds we relatively tolerable and the subsonic was mostly downright dulcet. Yeah, I used the word "dulcet" to describe the sound of a gun firing. I am infant, an oxymoron. A liberal gun owner. No! Don't move my post to Political! But seriously, the subsonic anomaly was a crack obviously from the receive near my ear, very similar to a rupture I learned from my Hopkins and Allen.

I've started reading the ABCs of Reloading, to learn more about bullets. I think I read there how low velocity rounds can begin slowing inside a rifle barrel if they arent tuned for a rifle, and I wondered if a rough barrel could slow a round enough to cause back pressure.

I don't know. I think i will save up for a reline just to clear my mind. At 25 years, I should be able to cover three rounds with a dime, no matter what the sights.

[damienph]

Lostowl,
Your barrel must be in substantially better shape than the one on my 1894 Favorite. That is how mine shoots at 25 feet, seriously.

I need to save up for a reline, as well.

Damien

[FatJackDurham]

Yeah. Just my tax returns. I'm getting some back so I'll be able to get it done soon.

[Hobie]

Re-line...

[FatJackDurham]

Re-line...

Gonna be packing the box today!

[damienph]

Re-line...

Gonna be packing the box today!

So who is going to re-line it for you?

[JB]

The next time you test 22 ammo, don't shoot five of each brand then repeat the process. Different ammo has different bullet lubes and the barrel will react differently to the various bullets and lubes. When switching ammo, you should shoot a few shots just to fowl the bore with that brand ammo, then shoot how many ever groups you want of that brand before starting the process again with the new ammo.

Lapping that worn bore did nothing but wear what rifling you had down even more. I'd either reline the bore or buy another rifle.

[FatJackDurham]

Damienph - I am going to use Boses because they do relining AND bluing, and profess a four week turnaround.

JB - darn good to know. When I decided to have the barrel lapped, I was concerned about the rifling. The rifling IS still evident, but there are just to much pitting and wear. Relining it is.

[w30wcf]

"So, the questions I have:
is my interpretation of the subsonic backfire plausible"
I would say that it is the inconsistency of the ammo. I have used Winchester and Aquila subsonic ammo and found them to be superior to Remington subsonics.

It would be interesting to see how Wolf target ammo would do. The bullet has a nice coating of lubricant and shoots the best groups in my Marlin.

w30wcf

[FatJackDurham]

"So, the questions I have:
is my interpretation of the subsonic backfire plausible"
I would say that it is the inconsistency of the ammo. I have used Winchester and Aquila subsonic ammo and found them to be superior to Remington subsonics.

It would be interesting to see how Wolf target ammo would do. The bullet has a nice coating of lubricant and shoots the best groups in my Marlin.

w30wcf

Now, what do you lube a bullet with?

[JB]

"So, the questions I have:
is my interpretation of the subsonic backfire plausible"
I would say that it is the inconsistency of the ammo. I have used Winchester and Aquila subsonic ammo and found them to be superior to Remington subsonics.

It would be interesting to see how Wolf target ammo would do. The bullet has a nice coating of lubricant and shoots the best groups in my Marlin.

w30wcf

Now, what do you lube a bullet with?

The factory use various mixes of lubes for their ammo. I had some very old Eley target ammo where the lube had melted or dissolved away over time. I used Thompson Center's Bore Butter ( a lube for black powder guns) to relube the bullets before I shot them. I wanted a little lube to cut down on bore leading.

[FatJackDurham]

And is that something you only use when reloading or can you smear down a LRN bullet, factory ammo?

[FatJackDurham]

Shipped the Stevens off to Boses for relining and bluing.... I miss it already.