Colt SAA - Pic hvy- New Grips

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:10 pm

Well after much waiting, pondering,mulling and examining for the third time I made another offer. Two days later I got a call that it was accepted. I was on My way home so I went by and put the money and filled out the paperwork. Had to wait 12 days as They are closed on Sunday & Monday. Picked it up Tuesday and brung it Home. After getting it Home and under better light I must say I am more than pleased. Now mind You it aint perfect but it actually has more finish than I thought. still has some Blue in places.
All numbers match except the loading gate which as I understand shouldn't.
About the Grips, aren't they lovely ? They definitly have to Go. Am looking for a set of used original ( just to make it look like they belong there). I can get a set of new after market but they will be just that NEW and the Gun definitly is not. Not trying to fool anybody cause the Gun aint goin nowhere unless times get really really bad.
By the ser # 2243xx I date it as 1903. The Gunsmith that is looking for Grips says it is 1901. What say the Colt oficianados on this. The store where I bought it said it is 1902 ?
The Gun seems to be very tite, locks up tite with a teeney cyl to barrel gap.
Cal is 38-40, that makes 2 Colt SA I have in that caliber and My 3rd Colt SAA. So now I have a 1st 2nd & 3rd Gen Colt SA.

This one looks good beside My Win 92 in same cal.
if You notice the gap under the frame between the triggergaurd, that has Me puzzeled. When I tear it down to clean it I will try to fix that Problem. Anyone have a suggestion what it might be ?
enough rambling, on with the Pics
Perry

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:13 pm

exceded # of pics on OP, here is the Colt with the 92

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:24 pm

Neat Perry, congrats.

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:30 pm

Very interesting.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:08 pm

Looks like you got a real fine sixgun with a lot of history, where's it been, what's it seen and done? Will you get it lettered?

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:18 pm

thank you for posting (twice)--very NICE SAA-- after buying that old model Ruger Single-Six last week I have come to appreciate that well used look--wow those grips are way different... :)

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:21 pm

Looks great! You could buy repro grips and antique'em yourself to match the overall finish. You might find the loading gate screw isn't turned in far enough when you take the trigger guard off. Hoping that's your problem. Other than that I can't imagine what would cause it to bow like that other than being plain bent if everything's tight and in place.

gak · Post by **gak** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:36 pm

Congratulations - great gun and caliber! I'd suggest a set of old stags or elks or worn (but not completely "melted" smooth) original or repro hard rubbers (gutta percha).

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:38 pm

Nice looking Colt.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:45 pm

That's what I was thinking Kim. I can see something against the trigger gaurd. Hopeful that is all it is. As far as the repro grips that is being investigated. Question !! how far can I go in dissaembly before worrying about timing issues ?
@ Jerry B, I am almost pretty sure I will get a Letter, it caint hurt and just what if huh. Oh I have already had visions of sugarplums going through My head.
Perry
P.S. I can get a set of originals for $300, uh huh, not yet.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:53 pm

You can gut it down to the frame and bbl. without any timing issues. If you do have issues after a good cleaning/lube job than it was gunk taking up the space and should be addressed anyway.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:56 pm

kimwcook wrote:You can gut it down to the frame and bbl. without any timing issues. If you do have issues after a good cleaning/lube job than it was gunk taking up the space and should be addressed anyway.

Thank You. Forgot to mention, there is very little tension on the loading gate when opened, so the screw coul just be the culprit.
Perry

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:02 pm

1894c wrote:thank you for posting (twice)--very NICE SAA-- after buying that old model Ruger Single-Six last week I have come to appreciate that well used look--wow those grips are way different...

huh- twice
Perry

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:12 am

Never seen grips like that. What are they made of?

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:22 am

Very nice! I hope that the grip frame issue turns out to be nothing major.

Oly

the telegraphist · Post by **the telegraphist** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:47 am

Gday mate, according to my references that revolver came off the line in 1902, serials started at 220000 in that year and ended at approx 238000.
Shes a fine old Colt and in one of my favourite chamberings. Check cylinder mouth and bore dimensions for a suitable sized bullet, there can be considerable variation.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:23 am

Thanks Telegraphist,I would like that date better. 110 years just sounds better than 109 years old.
Perry

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:17 pm

The grips look like buckeye burl. Not traditional, but I kind of like the looks.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:21 pm

Sure would like to know if you find any history on it.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:42 pm

kimwcook wrote:The grips look like buckeye burl. Not traditional, but I kind of like the looks.

I was about to say spalted walnut, but the checkering threw me off (please dont say they're modern plastic

)

If they are wood, they might be worth something to someone with a modern project for sure

klhill · Post by **klhill** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:43 am

The last time I checked a Colt letter was $150.More if was an engraved gun or something special!

Mutt · Post by **Mutt** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:09 am

The grips look like fiber glass to me. I wouldn't think so , just looks that way for older eyes............
Mutt

TWHBC · Post by **TWHBC** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:24 am

Nice looking grips!

On the lower edge of the left grip, the pattern resembles a steer head with body and tail coming out of a dust storm (like looking at clouds and imaging what they resemble

).
Adds a really nice distinctive touch to a SAA!

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:42 am

Well I am sorry to say that the Grips are indeed plastic. That is the first thing I noticed when I looked at this Gun. They have sharp edges and don't fit worth beans. I guess it is hard to tell in the pics that they are plastic. The bottom of the grip frame is pretty beat up (maybe from pounding nails into Wanted Posters) that would be My first guess as to why they were changed. I must admit that they don't look bad in the pics. My first impression was that they were trying to imitate Rattlesnake.
$150 for a letter is doable and will be done. The only thing that I can see that is not original is the Grips.
This is going to be a fun project and I really want to go shoot it but have to wait till I get the grip-frame issue resolved.
Perry

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:24 am

Stripped it down to the barrel and frame today. Really wasn't all that dirty, a little grime but looked like it has been there for years. It cleaned up really easily and it still is very tite. Ran into a problem when putting the hammer back in, tightened the screw pretty tite and the hammer wouldn't move. Backed it off a little and it seems to work fine,(is this the proper procedure?).
Now the Grip Frame issue, the loading gate screw was backed out and touching the grip frame.But that I don't think is why it is bent. As I stated earlier that it looked like it was used as a hammer seems to be why it is bent. Now figuring out how to straightening it. There are some marks on the trigger guard that looks like someone used a punch to try and straighten it. This is an ongoing issue and I will prevail.
As a side note, the # on the loading gate matches the # on the bottom of the frame.
Looking at a lot of grips on EB & GB, may settle on a set of walnuts till something else comes along.
Oh and that mainspring sure is stiff. Is there any way to lighten them without replacing it ?
Perry

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:09 am

Don't grind/file on that heavy, probably Colt spring. Replace it with a light weight aftermarket one and save the one that's in it.

If you don't feel confident about straightening that trigger guard, there are a couple of smiths I'd recommend. Alan Harton in Houston is one.

You may need to replace the spring on the loading gate in order to get screw up inside the frame. Are the detents crisp?

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:15 am

Perry,
In the old days, these guns were used as tools and people beat the heck out of 'em, therefore, when something went wrong, it was the standard for "home gunsmithing". They used makeshift springs and screws that were a trifle too long or short. If something got a little bent, they eyeballed it and whacked it with a ball peen hammer. Thats why you have some fitting issues. Its nothing for a 'smith or you to make her right again. Just take your time, one problem at a time. Some problems are over my head such as timing issues so just don't file up the cam pin on the hammer or do any "deep hole drilling"!

First gen hammers were stiff---the primers in those days were harder. As M.M Wright says, replace it with an aftermarket. I like to leave 'em heavy.

Yes, Get a letter! The buck and a half they cost will add several hundred more to the value of the gun, "if the gun and the letter match", plus makes for an easy sell-----if you decide.

Yes, the grips need to go. (nothin' personal

) You could go several ways. Spend the big bucks for an original set----get repro 1st gen rubbers and beat 'em up a bit----or what I would do, find a set of factory walnuts, fit 'em nice to the gun, add a few nicks and gouges, along with some oil staining, and even add a set of pre-war nickel emblems, which you can get from a set of old beat up grips at a show that were for a Police Positive.

'Ya done good and as John Taffin says, "nothin' stirs the soul like an old Colt S.A.A."

--------------------Sixgun

gak · Post by **gak** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:23 pm

Least work to give a set of grips the old look without spending a fortune, would be a set of the repro checkered rubbers, then hit em up with a good dose of 00--a few to several vigorous minutes over a wastebasket, spending more time in some spots than others--but this way can "age" them to heart's content. Voila. Some skip the above and go straight to fine grit sandpaper, quicker to "get there"--especially down to shiny smooth in spots--but to me harder to modulate. Either way works. My smith who was aging and tuning a Colt clone and Rodeo for me did the above to great effect, and I did same--to lesser degree, just to tone the aggressiveness down a degree--to a few of the newer type Rugers to keep as "field" grips.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:09 pm

I agree with Sixgun about replacing the hammer spring with an aftermarket unit. You can find them anywhere from too light, to too heavy. I personally have altered main springs all the way to using aftermarket ones. I like them lighter than stock. Stock seems to be way to heavy for me. Just make sure you don't end up with too light a hammer strike and unpopped primers. Plastic grips have got to go. I don't even care for the original rubber ones.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:49 pm

I stopped and picked up My bearing presses at My old place this afternoon. I have a floor model and a table top one. I will use one to try and straighten the grip frame. I will have to devise a piece of steel to fit in the trigger gaurd yet be able to push on the frame.
Here is a link to GB with a pair of walnut grips, what do You think ? 272401741
Didn't get a chance to work on it today, maybe tomorrow. As far as the mainspring goes I did see some cowboy springs on GB from Brownells for about 15 bucks I think. After shooting it I will decide. It is just that I just about Broke My right Thumb 2 weeks ago and it is still a little Sore and that stiff spring is kinda painful. It may be OK when it heals.
@ sixgun, I'm glad You mentioned the timing Cam. I wondered what it was

it just looked like a worn nub on the hammer.
On the issue of the loading gate screw, after taking it out and giving it a thorough cleaning it works just fine. The spring is good as well as the detent, just needed to be screwed in farther- snaps open and shut like I think it should.
I really appreciate the help and encouragement. This has been a fun project and I will keep You'all posted on the progress. This is the first SA that I have torn down and it is amazing how simple it is. I think easier that the Win 94 I did. Heck I'm ready to open a shop "NOT"
until next time- Perry
a couple pics of the teardown

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:43 am

pwl44m wrote:
1894c wrote:thank you for posting (twice)--very NICE SAA-- after buying that old model Ruger Single-Six last week I have come to appreciate that well used look--wow those grips are way different... :)
huh- twice
Perry

it may have been the break in the graphics--thought you posted a second time when you had the single photo of the colt SA & rifle... :)

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:58 am

1894c wrote:
pwl44m wrote:
1894c wrote:thank you for posting (twice)--very NICE SAA-- after buying that old model Ruger Single-Six last week I have come to appreciate that well used look--wow those grips are way different...
huh- twice
Perry
it may have been the break in the graphics--thought you posted a second time when you had the single photo of the colt SA & rifle...

That is kinda what I had in mind but wasn't sure, I bout wore My scroll button out looking for the Other Post. I could only put 10 pictures in the original post and I wanted to get the one with the rifle in.
Perry

okdee · Post by **okdee** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:51 pm

I like it! It looks like a work gun...

OkD

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:13 pm

okdee wrote:I like it! It looks like a work gun...
OkD

Thx, but it is like Me-working days are over. Sold all My Cattle (both of them

)
Update on the Grips, got the ones on GB. I think with a little sandpaper and a small hammer I can fix them.
Perry

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:15 pm

Good work Perry, hope the frame comes out ok, then with the new grips it`ll be a nice gun.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:17 pm

I finally got some time this afternoon to work on the old Girl. Had to install some Kitchen cabinets first. Have to keep the Mrs happy don't ya know.
Piece of cake, I just run a piece of 1/2 in galv pipe through the triggergaurd and run the press down, switched sides a couple times and I am Happy.
New 2 piece Walnut grips are payed for and will be on Their way tomorrow.
A couple pics after the Fix, I didn't do that to the screws, it was already done, I swear.

Perry

gak · Post by **gak** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:56 pm

Excellent work! Now can't wait to see it with the grips. I was never able to find that auction number--even under completed--so I feel put out

You do know when you start talking about and showing this stuff, it's no longer just yours, right?! This is going to be a gem I can tell!

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:08 pm

You did a great job on the trigger guard, looks good.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:35 pm

Hey, Perry. You can get some new screws for that old piece and then if you don't have the right screwdrivers, get'em. You can treat the screws so they match the piece, but they won't be all buggered up. That'd drive me nuts.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:09 am

Thanks for the comments, Kim - I have a Winchester screwdriver set (handle with a variety of bits) that I use.
I have an old Home Gunsmithing book, One section tells how to repair screws, sounds simple and logical. Set the screw in a hole of a piece of heavy metal and peen the head flat, then using a small file the right size refile the slot.
Perry

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:22 am

I picked up a set of Colt 1 generation black grips in excellent shape for $25.00, thought they were repo's.

found out later they were not repo's but the originals, circa early 1900's.

Sold them to a Colt collector last year for $150.00.

If I still had them I would make you a deal that would be hard to refuse.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:34 pm

Got the Grips today. Didn't waste any time getting them on. While they look a blame sight better than those plastic things I am still not pleased. The ad said good fit at the frame but a little proud at the backstrap. OK so I have to file them down a little. What I think He meant to say was that the backstrap was a little proud of the Grip.Caint add wood, so they will work till something else comes along. Man they are really small in My hand.
Couple pics before and after.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:29 pm

She's a lot more photogenic with the new grips!

gak · Post by **gak** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:32 pm

claybob86 wrote:She's a lot more photogenic with the new grips!

+1 Oooh - a darned sight better!! Now just hit 'em with some 000 or 0000 to take some of that new sheen away

But seriously, they look great IMO, from here anyway!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:24 pm

Perry,
That is a sweet old working pistol. Were it mine, I'd replace the buggered up screws, aging them to match. And I'd get myself a proper set of walnut grips. Have them fitted, or fit them ..... then, I'd get myself a set of rough rawhide gloves like the cowboys used to use, go out in the desert, get the gloves sweaty and dirty then handle and shoot the gun a lot. That will age the grips I'll bet.

Small in the hand ...... Hmmmm:
You mean like this?

High grip.JPG

Or this?

IJ Closeup.JPG

This is the way they are supposed to be. The big clunky grips are for double actions.

Joe

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:47 am

@ Joe, I mean exactly like that, My pinky will no way fit on the grip.But I'm thinkin 38-40 not much recoil, unlike My SAA in 44 special- that thing hurts. I love shooting but that Gun is not Fun.
I used a little steel wool on them and they look a little better but still a little shiny. I actually thought about taking a handful of dirt and rubbing it in Hard. I don't have 100 years to make them look Old.
Perry
P.S. thanks for all the comments (makes Me feel good)

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:40 am

A SAA is meant to be held with the pinkie UNDER the grip frame. The top of the middle finger gives a "pivot" point for the grip to roll back in the hand, putting the hammer where your thumb can now reach it and hold onto it as you use the other two fingers to pull the grip back to a vertical, the thumb, basically holding the hammer in place. "Self-cocking" in a manner of speaking! The pinkie under the grip helps push the grip back upright as it becomes the pivot point for cocking the gun. It's much harder to describe than to demonstrate.

That's an AWESOME job staightening the trigger guard! Yes, one-piece wood grips would be ever so much better! I love my black rubber ones, but one-piece wood ones are much more photogenic!

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:08 pm

Thanks Griff, I tried to practice that way but the thumb is too sore. Maybe when I get to the range with some ammo things will be different.
Perry

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Looking good. I don't have large hands, but I put my pinky under the grip too. I don't even have to think about it anymore.

gak · Post by **gak** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:46 pm

kimwcook wrote:Looking good. I don't have large hands, but I put my pinky under the grip too. I don't even have to think about it anymore.

Same here. Helped if you've got the Colt (ditto Ruger) chamfer at the grip bottom. Hard to tell from the pics if it has that? Gripmakers will tell you that the vast majority of their orders are flat bottom, but I much prefer the chamfer--and, if it accomodates your hand, to me adds a classy touch too.