300 Blackout or 300 Whimper?

[olyinaz]

Hey whatever floats yer boat, but I remain unimpressed! Let's look at it vs. our beloved .30-30:



Out of the pipe it's got nothing on 7.62x39, but hey, you get to use .308 bullets and the same bolt as your 5.56mm AR so...I guess that's something.

Now look at Old Trusty:



I'm sorry, but it sure seems to me that the old Thuhty bests the 300 at every range I care about with heavier bullets/more energy with similar speed and trajectory. And honestly I find a lever gun more handy than an AR.

Bit different story with the 6.5mm Grendel if one simply must compare an AR with a lever gun:



Your mileage may vary! Just sayin'...

Oly

[Mescalero]

6.5 ................. always!!!!!!!!

[Rusty]

How about the 6.8?

[jhrosier]

The 300 Whisper & like cartridges are not about power.
They were intended to shoot a heavy bullet accurately at subsonic velocities.

Jack

[olyinaz]

The 300 Whisper & like cartridges are not about power.
They were intended to shoot a heavy bullet accurately at subsonic velocities.

Agreed. In that one role I think it does very well. Unfortunately, the hype surrounding the cartridge is pretty thick these days.

Oly

[olyinaz]

How about the 6.8?

Still not much to write home about, but it kicks the 300's butt.

[AJMD429]

The 300 Whisper & like cartridges are not about power.
They were intended to shoot a heavy bullet accurately at subsonic velocities.

Agreed. In that one role I think it does very well. Unfortunately, the hype surrounding the cartridge is pretty thick these days.

Yep.

If I got a suppressed ".30", I'd just get a Contender barrel for .32-20; I don't know what the biggest bullet you could hurl at 950 fps would be, but it's likely big enough to have some 'impact', and pointy enough to keep going straight farther than I can shoot well. The Contender .32-20's are .308" so there would be plenty of bullets to choose from.

[madman4570]

Missing whole point WHY that cartridge was developed.
For actual battle capable weaponry there is no comparison with a 30-30 lever to a 30 cal AR with a 30rd or 40rd mag.???
They cannot be compared(different uses) if that was the case the 30-30 lever would be obselete because a 7mm mag has as much or more "getting it" at 400yds than a 30-30 at the muzzle (totally different application)though of those two if one has to get tossed(bye-bye 30-30)

Why a 300BLK----------------------220grain with it being supressed and at suburban combat distance and proper bullet=(bad guy down)

Create a reliable compact 30-cal solution for AR platform
Utilize existing inventory magazines while retaining their full capacity
Create the optimal platform for sound and flash suppressed fire
Create compatible supersonic ammo that matches 7.62×39mm ballistics
Provide the ability to penetrate barriers with high-mass projectiles
Provide all capabilities in a lightweight, durable, low recoiling package

Meeting these goals allowed the development team to negate many of the perceived drawbacks inherent to other large caliber cartridges when used in the M4 platform. Colt Firearms and other arms makers had previously chambered AR pattern rifles and carbines in various 30 caliber rounds but several issues were encountered. In the case of the 7.62×39mm, its relatively severe case angle caused feeding issues[4] unless specially modified AK47 magazines were used and even then results were less than outstanding. Modified bolts were also needed owing to its larger case head diameter. Rounds such as the 6.8spc and 6.5 Grendel had similar part-interchangeability issues but did allow for the use of the standard M4/M16 30 round magazine albeit with a reduced capacity.
Also keeping the M4 in mind as the primary host during load development the designers were able to work up a host of cartridges that would satisfy not only the ballistic requirements set forth but also ensure mechanical reliability with the fewest changes to the weapon itself with only a simple barrel change being necessary for a complete conversion.

For myself-----it loaded with the 30cal 220gr@1000fps in a tiny little 16" carbine that can pop off 30rds quietly in a few seconds=====KEEPER!

I have to say(I am new to this short carbine stuff) and say these short rounds(especially in the pistol cartridges)there is a vast difference.
I mean the carrying/handling/shooting and most importantly the speed at which the gun cycles.(you wouldn't think it is much but it is huge.)Example: Shooting my 20" barreled .223 Colt HBAR pull the trigger and you have this (now to me, long piiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnggggg sound combined with its action movement) use to think that gun was fast

Now shoot a 9mm or 40S&W in a carbine.(at least the Kel-Tec)there is nothing(its done)
As soon as you can rapid tap your trigger finger the gun is firing and I mean staying on target.
Honestly, I had no idea how much different.
Truthfully, I used to think carbines were a joke! Just a less effective machine.
Now I understand--------I had it wrong cause I was missing the concept entirely.
I get it now-----------better late than never.(just try one)

[Terry Murbach]

THE 300WHISPER DOES EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO, TAKE OUT SENTRIES AND SUCH SILENTLY AT UP TO 200 METERS. I HAVE SHOT THE VERY FIRST 300WHISPER GUN AND IT DID SO WITH PINPOINT ACCURACY. BY THE WAY, THAT FIRST 300WHISPER USED A TOTALLY DIFFERENT CARTRIDGE CASE [ IT PREDATES THE 222 CASE HEAD SIZE ] THAT'D MAKE YOU WONDER WHYIN'ELL DID THEY NOT DO THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE ??
I AM SWORN TO SECRECY YET.
AND SO IT GOES...


PS: THE 300BLACKOUT IS A TOTAL RIPOFF OF J.D.'s DESIGN DONE BY LAZY STUPID UNTHINKING BONEHEADS TOO LAZY TO EVEN TRY TO DO BETTER. I HATE THIEVES !!!

[olyinaz]

THE 300WHISPER DOES EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO, TAKE OUT SENTRIES AND SUCH SILENTLY AT UP TO 200 METERS. I HAVE SHOT THE VERY FIRST 300WHISPER GUN AND IT DID SO WITH PINPOINT ACCURACY. BY THE WAY, THAT FIRST 300WHISPER USED A TOTALLY DIFFERENT CARTRIDGE CASE [ IT PREDATES THE 222 CASE HEAD SIZE ] THAT'D MAKE YOU WONDER WHYIN'ELL DID THEY NOT DO THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE ??
I AM SWORN TO SECRECY YET.
AND SO IT GOES...

PS: THE 300BLACKOUT IS A TOTAL RIPOFF OF J.D.'s DESIGN DONE BY LAZY STUPID UNTHINKING BONEHEADS TOO LAZY TO EVEN TRY TO DO BETTER. I FRICKIN' HATE THIEVES !!!

Yep! And while the ripoff cartridge still does the subsonic thing pretty much as J.D. Jones intended, I keep seeing this ridiculous carp about it being ".30-30 out of an AR". It's hoo ha. I LIKE J.D.'s line of big slug, subsonic chamberings! They have a purpose and they're good at it. I like the "thumper" chamberings for the AR for the same reason. But don't lie to me and tell me that a 110gr projectile with half the energy of a .30-30 projectile is the same thing because they dang sure ARE NOT - and that's what I feel like some of these people are doing.

I'm sure it sells guns though! And folks have been saying that 7.62x39 is "just like .30-30" for years too. The knowitalls in the press write that garbage in just about every review of a 7.62x39 gun you see. Well it aint true in that case either! But at least with a bolt gun you could surely hand load it up to be a relatively true statement.

It's the hype and false claims from these 300 Blackout people that's got me annoyed, but that's just me - worth less than the 2¢ you didn't pay to hear it.

Oly

[olyinaz]

For myself-----it loaded with the 30cal 220gr@1000fps in a tiny little 16" carbine that can pop off 30rds quietly in a few seconds=====KEEPER!

Yes, if you have a need or a desire to do THAT then the round works just fine and it IS a keeper. Unfortunately folks make a pile of other claims about the round that are mostly hype, including a lot of that propaganda that you copied from their press site.

I have to say(I am new to this short carbine stuff) and say these short rounds(especially in the pistol cartridges)there is a vast difference.
I mean the carrying/handling/shooting and most importantly the speed at which the gun cycles.(you wouldn't think it is much but it is huge.)Example: Shooting my 20" barreled .223 Colt HBAR pull the trigger and you have this (now to me, long piiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnggggg sound combined with its action movement) use to think that gun was fast

Now shoot a 9mm or 40S&W in a carbine.(at least the Kel-Tec)there is nothing(its done). As soon as you can rapid tap your trigger finger the gun is firing and I mean staying on target. Honestly, I had no idea how much different. Truthfully, I used to think carbines were a joke! Just a less effective machine. Now I understand--------I had it wrong cause I was missing the concept entirely. I get it now-----------better late than never.(just try one)

I own so many pistol caliber carbines that I need to divest of some! They are just flat out FUN. I don't care about the zombie apocalypse angle or technical aspects of the design whatever else anyone says about 'em - THEY'RE JUST FUN. The ammo has a lot more bang than a .22 but it's still reasonably inexpensive. Great for plinking. Great for some kinds of small game I'd think.

Hey, if the whole carbine thing is an epiphany for you, then get your hands on an M1 Carbine. SO MUCH FUN IT SEEMS LIKE A SIN! And good looking too! (Unlike most of these black gun "tool" kind of weapons.)

But that whole discussion is kind of a side show. They don't market this thing as a pistol caliber carbine as the M1 Carbine was originally supposed to be thought of. They keep marketing it as some sort of bad azz hunting round and it's more like a BAD IDEA hunting round if you ask me, given all of the alternatives that are better.

Just me talkin'.

Oly

[Hobie]

Claims are just that and nothing more but don't confuse claims with ignorant,, ill-spoken(written) comparisons. The cartridge, by whatever name, is useful in the AR and interesting in something like a Contender.

[6pt-sika]

I've messed with the 300 Blackie a small amount in subsonic from an AR as well as a pair of 308 bolt guns shooting subsonic also .

We've been messing with them expressly for shooting deer on damage control permits while being quite around congested areas etc .

And to be honest while the 308 at 1000 FPS is quiet quiet quiet with the suppressor and the Sierra 220 grainer it's also turning out to be a tack driver . But unless you take headshots I don't see it as a good killing round in application . Now there's still the possibility of cast lead and some of the custom bullet makers who lately seem to have forgotten how to answer the phone .

Anyway I'm still riding the fence on ANY of the subsonic stuff as far as killing ability is concerned . I would prefer a bullet that some of the custom makers claim to expand , penetrate well and deal with deer sized bones out to say 80 yards . But thats ALOT of parameters I don't really think they have the ability to produce . Time will tell thats for sure .

[olyinaz]

I've messed with the 300 Blackie a small amount in subsonic from an AR as well as a pair of 308 bolt guns shooting subsonic also .

We've been messing with them expressly for shooting deer on damage control permits while being quite around congested areas etc .

And to be honest while the 308 at 1000 FPS is quiet quiet quiet with the suppressor and the Sierra 220 grainer it's also turning out to be a tack driver . But unless you take headshots I don't see it as a good killing round in application . Now there's still the possibility of cast lead and some of the custom bullet makers who lately seem to have forgotten how to answer the phone .

Anyway I'm still riding the fence on ANY of the subsonic stuff as far as killing ability is concerned . I would prefer a bullet that some of the custom makers claim to expand , penetrate well and deal with deer sized bones out to say 80 yards . But thats ALOT of parameters I don't really think they have the ability to produce . Time will tell thats for sure .

Interesting. How large would you think to go in lead .30 caliber projectiles? Would you use soft lead for expansion or would that not work with the bones you need to smash through?

Thanks,
Oly

[6pt-sika]

I've messed with the 300 Blackie a small amount in subsonic from an AR as well as a pair of 308 bolt guns shooting subsonic also .

We've been messing with them expressly for shooting deer on damage control permits while being quite around congested areas etc .

And to be honest while the 308 at 1000 FPS is quiet quiet quiet with the suppressor and the Sierra 220 grainer it's also turning out to be a tack driver . But unless you take headshots I don't see it as a good killing round in application . Now there's still the possibility of cast lead and some of the custom bullet makers who lately seem to have forgotten how to answer the phone .

Anyway I'm still riding the fence on ANY of the subsonic stuff as far as killing ability is concerned . I would prefer a bullet that some of the custom makers claim to expand , penetrate well and deal with deer sized bones out to say 80 yards . But thats ALOT of parameters I don't really think they have the ability to produce . Time will tell thats for sure .

Interesting. How large would you think to go in lead .30 caliber projectiles? Would you use soft lead for expansion or would that not work with the bones you need to smash through?

Thanks,
Oly

I've got some 200 grain RN GC bullets coming . But I doubt if they'll be any better because I assume they'll have a hardness of 20+ . I think in "application" to get the lead bullet thing to work I'll need to cast and go with an almost pure lead alloy .

300 Blackie , 300 Whisper , 308 or 06 makes no difference if one is messing with subsonic . Regardless of what cartridge the bullet comes from 1000-1050 FPS is the same !

I question whether this things gonna have enough juice left in the tank at 100 yards to penetrate a deer skull even with the unexpanded Sierra 220 grain RN .

I killed a big old fat doe a couple years ago with a old Marlin 1895 in 38-56 that was running about 1300 FPS with a 264 grain cast bullet made from wheelweights and it center punched her head . Now that deer was at 25 yards and I'm going about 250 FPS less and at a distance thats triple to four times as much . I need to shoot some things for penetration and expansion .

Truthfully if were doing this strictly for myself I'd have most likely decided tis wasn't as great an idea as was originally thought . But since it's being done mainly for some friends I'll put forth a bit more effort good bad or otherwise LOL's !

I am about 95.5% sure that I'll be able to hold for headshots where we DCP hunt . It's quite similar to shooting from a bench in the two climbers I use . And about the furthest shot I'll get there is maybe 70-80 yards . And that far away the deer shouldn't even here the little pop of the primer so that most surely will work in our favor .

I am "hoping" with the 308 subbed and suppressed I should be able to brain one and the others will stay there and not get overly concerned . But again thats alot to hope for .

[ving-thorr]

Now the 30 Rem AR does appear to perform like a 30-30. But I'm still too annoyed at Remington over the demise of Marlin to want to touch anything made by them.

[olyinaz]

Now the 30 Rem AR does appear to perform like a 30-30.

Yep. The key difference is case capacity on that thing - much more than 300 BLK.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/m-artic ... 170&cid=31

Oly

[Hobie]

Now the 30 Rem AR does appear to perform like a 30-30.

Yep. The key difference is case capacity on that thing - much more than 300 BLK.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/m-artic ... 170&cid=31

Oly

Case capacity is more but mag capacity is LESS. For me, that's a big deal.

[olyinaz]

Now the 30 Rem AR does appear to perform like a 30-30.

Yep. The key difference is case capacity on that thing - much more than 300 BLK.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/m-artic ... 170&cid=31

Oly

Case capacity is more but mag capacity is LESS. For me, that's a big deal.

To each his own, but I'm curious why that's a big deal for you? I find the rotary magazine in the Ruger Deerfield Carbine to be a bit stifling at 4 rounds, but this is still an AR we're talking about and I suspect that 15 rounds will fit in the 30 round AR mags (just guessing). 6.8 and 6.5 both have reduced capacity as well. Indeed, anything with more ooomph than the 300 is going to have reduced capacity in the AR platform I would think but that's the only way to get past the 300 being "not enough gun", as someone once said.

Oly

[Hobie]

Now the 30 Rem AR does appear to perform like a 30-30.

Yep. The key difference is case capacity on that thing - much more than 300 BLK.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/m-artic ... 170&cid=31

Oly

Case capacity is more but mag capacity is LESS. For me, that's a big deal.

To each his own, but I'm curious why that's a big deal for you? I find the rotary magazine in the Ruger Deerfield Carbine to be a bit stifling at 4 rounds, but this is still an AR we're talking about and I suspect that 15 rounds will fit in the 30 round AR mags (just guessing). 6.8 and 6.5 both have reduced capacity as well. Indeed, anything with more ooomph than the 300 is going to have reduced capacity in the AR platform I would think but that's the only way to get past the 300 being "not enough gun", as someone once said.

Oly

You have to be kidding. The ONLY reason I have an AR is for magazine capacity of rounds to reach out there. The ONLY reason. Yes, the 6.5 and 6.8 have diminished capacity which is why I have diminished interest in them. The .300 Blackout/Whisper is interesting to ME as an alternative to the 5.56 NATO because it doesn't diminish the mag capacity and because it is a .30. That's about it. I am so interested I haven't gotten an upper for it yet. I'm so interested in the whole AR thing that I have ONE. I think everyone should have ONE. Yes one CAN hunt with them and I don't see anything wrong with that but I do NOT hunt with mine.

The .300 Rem AR, the .25 WSSM and such are intended for hunters who prefer the AR-15 to the AR-10 size rifle. That's all well and good but, again, they don't interest me. I did look at them but that diminshed mag capacity sealed their fate with me.

[rimrock]

I am not a student of subsonic sniper rounds because I have no need to be a sniper, yet. That could change in the future. From my experience with the .444Marlin, cartridges out of the main stream can be hard to find and expensive on a local basis. So, for me I can download my .308 using 125 grain bullets to get most of the usefulness of cartridges like 6.8, 6.5, .30 cal whisper, or .30 blackout.If you like 'em, shoot 'em. I just don't want the frustration of finding brass when a buying frenzy hits. For brass, I'm set for 3-4 years if the U.S. heads towards anarchy anytime soon, not that I want that awful situation!

rimrock

[olyinaz]

Case capacity is more but mag capacity is LESS. For me, that's a big deal.

To each his own, but I'm curious why that's a big deal for you? I find the rotary magazine in the Ruger Deerfield Carbine to be a bit stifling at 4 rounds, but this is still an AR we're talking about and I suspect that 15 rounds will fit in the 30 round AR mags (just guessing). 6.8 and 6.5 both have reduced capacity as well. Indeed, anything with more ooomph than the 300 is going to have reduced capacity in the AR platform I would think but that's the only way to get past the 300 being "not enough gun", as someone once said. Oly

You have to be kidding. The ONLY reason I have an AR is for magazine capacity of rounds to reach out there. The ONLY reason.

Why would I be kidding? Were you kidding? I guess not because you answered the question...which was why I asked because I'm not good at mind reading. No kidding.

Yes, the 6.5 and 6.8 have diminished capacity which is why I have diminished interest in them. The .300 Blackout/Whisper is interesting to ME as an alternative to the 5.56 NATO because it doesn't diminish the mag capacity and because it is a .30. That's about it. I am so interested I haven't gotten an upper for it yet. I'm so interested in the whole AR thing that I have ONE. I think everyone should have ONE. Yes one CAN hunt with them and I don't see anything wrong with that but I do NOT hunt with mine.

The .300 Rem AR, the .25 WSSM and such are intended for hunters who prefer the AR-15 to the AR-10 size rifle. That's all well and good but, again, they don't interest me. I did look at them but that diminshed mag capacity sealed their fate with me.

So clearly you don't much care, don't have but one AR, think a person should have at least ONE for some reason that has to do with high capacity magazines, don't care about hunting with ARs, don't care about absolute performance if it hampers magazine capacity, and "ONLY" care about magazine capacity. Wow, that's finally clear! I'm tempted to say YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING. But I wont because this is a classy joint. No kidding.

Oly

[madman4570]

Oly,
Everyone has had some good points on this topic.
Hobie has a good point about the mag capacity.(will see below why)

Here is an interesting thing I found out about why that 300 BLK is such a big deal(Talked to a gentlemen at our gun club today that is a LEO that is attached to a special tasked operations division.

He stated (very first thing)----still able to obtain the normal high mag capacity
Also he stated to have the desired objective of special ops weaponry in certain situations the round needs to have a low velocity.

Now,another interesting part-----he said that a 220 .30cal bullet (a rifle bullet,in that configuration)at that low velocity loses extremely little velocity out to 150yds (example: muzzle---1000fps, at 150yds---888fps

Also said they are designing bullets specifically tasked for maximum effect for those distances(0-150 yds) with those given velocities.

He said this is a huge jump over say a handgun caliber carbine because a handgun bullet loses that same amount of effect at 50yds.
(Meaning 50yds effectiveness verses 150yds effectiveness)
So they gain (100yds in effectiveness) They keep maximum magazine capability and have a heavy 220gr bullet that WILL PUT A HUMAN TARGET DOWN EFFECTIVELY.
All while being whisper quiet.

Myself, I know hardly anything about this new stuff.(am learning)
I say lets all respect everyone's viewpoints and be glad we can all brain storm this new stuff.

But, Hobie did have it dead right------------------that was their top priority not reducing mag capacity.(I would have thought that might be a little farther down the list behind some of the other attributes , but -----I was dead wrong. Course with Hobie-----He usually is dead nuts right on his stuff.

Again we all are learning and lets have fun (taking it all in) now that is if my little brain can absorb that much

Also said-------------if they need to shoot farther than 150yds,that is what their special ops Remington 700's do in .308 and 22-250
And yes -------that guy can shoot!
God Bless!

[6pt-sika]

Oly,
Here is an interesting thing I found out about why that 300 BLK is such a big deal(Talked to a gentlemen at our gun club today that is a LEO that is attached to a special tasked operations division.
-----he said that a 220 .30cal bullet (a rifle bullet,in that configuration)at that low velocity loses extremely little velocity out to 150yds (example: muzzle---1000fps, at 150yds---888fps

I tend to doubt that , while I've not clocked the sub sonic stuff at more then 12 feet I may just give it a try and 50 , 75 and 100 yards .

But as I said I tend not to believe that until I see it on the Chrony myself .

[olyinaz]

Oly,
Here is an interesting thing I found out about why that 300 BLK is such a big deal(Talked to a gentlemen at our gun club today that is a LEO that is attached to a special tasked operations division.
-----he said that a 220 .30cal bullet (a rifle bullet,in that configuration)at that low velocity loses extremely little velocity out to 150yds (example: muzzle---1000fps, at 150yds---888fps

I tend to doubt that , while I've not clocked the sub sonic stuff at more then 12 feet I may just give it a try and 50 , 75 and 100 yards .

But as I said I tend not to believe that until I see it on the Chrony myself .

Actually, I think it's mostly true and that is exactly what J.D. Jones had in mind when he designed the thing (300 Whisper that is, not this Blockout ripoff thing):





And to me, that's just it. It was designed with heavy streamlined bullets in mind for a specific mission with police, spec ops. and ninja turtles in mind. I'm not any of those things. I've got high cap 5.56 ARs and various AKs at my disposal should I feel some desperate need to hurl mass quantities of ammo down range. And if I had a specific mission in mind for subsonic shooting like 6PT does I don't think I'd really care if I had a 30 round mag or a 15 round mag in my rifle (and I don't think he does either) because last I checked it doesn't take a hail of bullets to kill a bambi. A zombie maybe. Not bambi.

So with the people J.D. Jones had in mind when he conjured this thing up I say YES, I get it and always have - this thing is cool and it works well for that mission. For most other common pursuits I'd say that 6.8 SPC, 6.5 GRN, .30 RAR and .30-30 all kick its' ash and I can't understand why a bunch of levergunners who normally run with 4-10 round magazines would be ate up with the mag cap issue. I think it's ridiculous but maybe it's me - I'm not planning for the zombie apocalypse, I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night (contrary to how it may appear given my opinionated nature...), and I don't own a ninja turtle outfit. But like I said - to each his own and enjoy because it's a HOBBY.

And I'm still not kidding! I like that 6.5mm Grendel. A LOT.

Oly

[cas]

Out of the pipe it's got nothing on 7.62x39..

It's not the pipe that matters, it's the magazine. The 300-221 works in a "straight" M16/AR15 magazine, the 7.62x39 doesn't. Not if you want to load more than 6-8 anyway.


There is no magic in them and no one has claimed there is.

Troll on if you're that bored.

[olyinaz]

Out of the pipe it's got nothing on 7.62x39..

It's not the pipe that matters, it's the magazine. The 300-221 works in a "straight" M16/AR15 magazine, the 7.62x39 doesn't. Not if you want to load more than 6-8 anyway.

Yes, but we already had the 6.8 and 6.5 in the AR platform and both are as good or better than the 7.62x39. So as I've said I'm not impressed, but your point is certainly taken - 7.62x39 and standard AR-15 receivers just don't seem to work very well together.

There is no magic in them and no one has claimed there is.

To quote the moderator, "You have to be kidding." I can read brother, and some of the far out claims have been posted right here so please don't try to tell me something that's not true and pass it off as some sort of wisdom.

Troll on if you're that bored.

Are you kiddin' me? You gotta be kidding me!

Hey 4570 - this what you meant? Nice!

Oly

[madman4570]

Oly,

I cannot believe that 208gr A-MAX bullet only loses that tiny amount of velocity/energy at 200yds
And I was impressed with the 220gr and the numbers he quoted.
Absolutely very cool!

The 300 Whisper is the same thing as the 300 BLK right??????????
Hey, I admit,I don't know squat in these new calibers.

OK, what is deal with the troll thing

I am very interested to see what bullet design they come up with that at 950-1000fps creates the biggest wound channel.
Just interested now----not hoping to have to use one some day mind you.

[6pt-sika]

I cannot believe that 208gr A-MAX bullet only loses that tiny amount of velocity/energy at 200yds
And I was impressed with the 220gr and the numbers he quoted.
Absolutely very cool!

The 300 Whisper is the same thing as the 300 BLK right??????????

The cartridge itself doesn't make a whole lotta difference as long as the 30 cal cartridge is held to 1050 FPS and shooting the 200-220 grain bullets and that the twist is correct for this application they "should" all do the same thing .

[madman4570]

I cannot believe that 208gr A-MAX bullet only loses that tiny amount of velocity/energy at 200yds
And I was impressed with the 220gr and the numbers he quoted.
Absolutely very cool!

The 300 Whisper is the same thing as the 300 BLK right??????????

The cartridge itself doesn't make a whole lotta difference as long as the 30 cal cartridge is held to 1050 FPS and shooting the 200-220 grain bullets and that the twist is correct for this application they "should" all do the same thing .

6pt,

this stuff is really interesting to me.
I USED to be the type guy(only a hot rod would do)you know---(.264 Win Mag/7mm Mag/416 Weatherby etc.
Same with velocity-----it had to be MAX(why???)didn't know better.
Joe(86er) and some of you guys got me thinking differently.(thank you very much)

Here is my twisted thinking????
I am looking at it as if one of those 200-220 bullets hit someone(with proper bullet expansion)could it almost have the same effect say at 200yds as a 45acp at 25yds??????(I understand that the .45 has a larger dia and that comes into play but just wondering how close if they had the proper bullet and it was as heavy a bullet and at possibly a tad faster velocity even?
This stuff really has me puzzled??
NYS I don't think I can have "any type suppressor system" and that stinks
It's just kinda fun now in my life looking at cartridges that don't have to throw a 400gr bullet at 2700fps(easier on shoulder too)

I know my questions are kinda stupid (but really I am totally dumb on this new tech stuff) heck,who knows maybe the older stuff too

Glad I have you guys!

[Hobie]

Case capacity is more but mag capacity is LESS. For me, that's a big deal.

To each his own, but I'm curious why that's a big deal for you? I find the rotary magazine in the Ruger Deerfield Carbine to be a bit stifling at 4 rounds, but this is still an AR we're talking about and I suspect that 15 rounds will fit in the 30 round AR mags (just guessing). 6.8 and 6.5 both have reduced capacity as well. Indeed, anything with more ooomph than the 300 is going to have reduced capacity in the AR platform I would think but that's the only way to get past the 300 being "not enough gun", as someone once said. Oly

You have to be kidding. The ONLY reason I have an AR is for magazine capacity of rounds to reach out there. The ONLY reason.

Why would I be kidding? Were you kidding? I guess not because you answered the question...which was why I asked because I'm not good at mind reading. No kidding.

Yes, the 6.5 and 6.8 have diminished capacity which is why I have diminished interest in them. The .300 Blackout/Whisper is interesting to ME as an alternative to the 5.56 NATO because it doesn't diminish the mag capacity and because it is a .30. That's about it. I am so interested I haven't gotten an upper for it yet. I'm so interested in the whole AR thing that I have ONE. I think everyone should have ONE. Yes one CAN hunt with them and I don't see anything wrong with that but I do NOT hunt with mine.

The .300 Rem AR, the .25 WSSM and such are intended for hunters who prefer the AR-15 to the AR-10 size rifle. That's all well and good but, again, they don't interest me. I did look at them but that diminshed mag capacity sealed their fate with me.

So clearly you don't much care, don't have but one AR, think a person should have at least ONE for some reason that has to do with high capacity magazines, don't care about hunting with ARs, don't care about absolute performance if it hampers magazine capacity, and "ONLY" care about magazine capacity. Wow, that's finally clear! I'm tempted to say YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING. But I wont because this is a classy joint. No kidding.

Oly

I've been pretty clear all along that it isn't a big deal for me and that using the mag capacity of the standard mags is THE point of interest for a cartridge of larger than 5.56 caliber. IF you read MY post and didn't confuse me with somebody else I would have thought that was abundantly clear.

It seems to me that you have a certain animus for the cartridge something like the Ford vs. Chevy debates and you're aggressive about it. It is JUST another cartridge designed to perform at a certain level inside certain dimensional restrictions. It might be useful. As to the other cartridges, I've made all those points in this and other topics. SO, it SEEMS that you might just be picking a fight and that ASTONISHES me hence the "you've got to be kidding".

[olyinaz]

The cartridge itself doesn't make a whole lotta difference as long as the 30 cal cartridge is held to 1050 FPS and shooting the 200-220 grain bullets and that the twist is correct for this application they "should" all do the same thing .

Indeed. I've read of folks having fun with Trailboss in the .308 Win.

Oly

[olyinaz]

It seems to me that you have a certain animus for the cartridge something like the Ford vs. Chevy debates and you're aggressive about it. It is JUST another cartridge designed to perform at a certain level inside certain dimensional restrictions. It might be useful. As to the other cartridges, I've made all those points in this and other topics. SO, it SEEMS that you might just be picking a fight and that ASTONISHES me hence the "you've got to be kidding".

Nope, I asked a simple question - why mag cap was the only thing you care about - it's not my thinking and I thought it was a pretty straight forward question because I was trying to understand why that would be important. Your "you've got to be kidding" reply struck me as "picking a fight", if you want to use such a phrase, and frankly I don't see how that dismissive, disrespectful comment would be taken any other way given the context of my polite query. This is a classy joint Hobie. All you had to do was be polite or click on but you didn't.

Regarding animus, what I will admit that I do have a negative opinion of is false claims. The "think of it as .30-30" strikes me as so far off the mark as to be maliciously misleading. I make no apology for that, just as Terry Murbach makes no apology for speaking ill of the people who have pretty much stolen J.D. Jones' work and tried to make it their own.

Oly

[olyinaz]

I cannot believe that 208gr A-MAX bullet only loses that tiny amount of velocity/energy at 200yds
And I was impressed with the 220gr and the numbers he quoted. Absolutely very cool!

It really is, and that's what the thing was originally designed for. If you think of how aerodynamic those long slugs are and also how relatively little air resistance they are encountering at such slow speed (drag rises with speed squared - it's not a linear rise) then it starts to make more intuitive sense, but seeing the numbers is pretty cool.

Oly

[6pt-sika]

The cartridge itself doesn't make a whole lotta difference as long as the 30 cal cartridge is held to 1050 FPS and shooting the 200-220 grain bullets and that the twist is correct for this application they "should" all do the same thing .

Indeed. I've read of folks having fun with Trailboss in the .308 Win.

Oly

So far