.40-82 woes

[Mike D.]

Trouble with loading these cartridges has me scratching my noggin. I'm using some of my Starline .45-90 brass to form the .40 cases. I annealed the cases, ran than through a RCBS .40-82 forming die followed by a Redding full length sizing die, then reamed them to .2.395". After chamfering the mouth inside and out I made up a empty test cartridge using a .260 gr .406 bullet. The dummy cartridge will fit the chamber but it is TIGHT and the bolt forced to close. Fully formed and loaded cartridges will only go in so far, leaving 1/2" of the case exposed and the bolt 3/4 closed. What is up? This isn't my first loading rodeo, but it has proved the be the shortest ride. Do I need a case neck reaming set up to remove excess brass form the resized brass? Maybe it's the chamber being a tad short, but it doesn't appear to be. I'm perplexed.

[pokey]

chamber cast?

i have the same trouble with some 38-55s.
i slide the loaded round into the sizing die [ without the decapper ]
and apply LIGHT pressure until it will chamber, mostly works.

[3855]

Mike

An old cartridge collector like you ought to have an original 40-82 cartridge laying around. Compare the dimensions of it and your reloads closely. It will soon be evident where your problem is. It only takes a few thousandths out of spec to keep a reload from chambering fully.

My guess is you will have to neck ream your brass. On 40-82's I have used a .410 inside neck reamer on my Forester case trimmer to do that job. If recall correctly, KirkD has done it by mounting empty cases in a drill press and using a file on the neck.

Good shooting.

[Mike D.]

I do not have any 40-82 cartridges at this time. Darn it I saw some cheap ones at a Northern Ca gun show a while back but dazed right on by them. DOH!

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I suspect you'll be turning a couple of thousandths off the outside of the top bit about the length of the seated bullet in the case. I think Starline brass, being of higher quality than the older Winchester stuff, starts out a bit thicker anyway and has flowed a wee bit forward as part of forming. I have the same issue when using 450 Alaskan formed from 50-110. I always have to take 3 mils off of the neck so I can chamber with a bullet in the neck. Slides in fine without the bullet as you'd expect. I bet the neck reaming left you just a couple of thousandths short of perfect in thickness.

I don't know why I'm reiterating something you already know. Maybe your brain just needs a jostling. Or maybe it's something we're not considering. As pokey said, a caliper is going to show this I think.

[Mike D.]

I suspect you'll be turning a couple of thousandths off the outside of the top bit about the length of the seated bullet in the case. I think Starline brass, being of higher quality than the older Winchester stuff, starts out a bit thicker anyway and has flowed a wee bit forward as part of forming. I have the same issue when using 450 Alaskan formed from 50-110. I always have to take 3 mils off of the neck so I can chamber with a bullet in the neck. Slides in fine without the bullet as you'd expect. I bet the neck reaming left you just a couple of thousandths short of perfect in thickness.

I don't know why I'm reiterating something you already know. Maybe your brain just needs a jostling. Or maybe it's something we're not considering. As pokey said, a caliper is going to show this I think.

No, I do not have a neck reamer, only the hand held one that cleans the case mouth. Caliper reads inside case mouth at 1/4" depth at .403". I believe that it does need reaming. The reaming set is kinda expensive @ $180. Too bad that Quality Cartridge folded.

[southfork]

So, nobody is making 40-82 WCF brass yet? I'd think that Starline or Jamison or somebody would be doing that by now. Of all the 160,000 Winchester Model 1886 rifles and carbines made, weren't about one fourth of them in 40-82? Yet, nobody is able to readily shoot these rifles yet because brass and other components are still hard to get??? This is kind of strange.

[Shasta]

Had that problem with my .38-72. Here is a link to my posts on my experience. It's a long read but stick with it for the probable solution:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=37307

SHASTA

[geobru]

Mike,
Measure the OD of the brass where the bullet is seated. In my 40-82, if that is greater than .430, it won't chamber. IIRC, virgin Starline brass with a .410 seated bullet is .435 to .436. Since you are using a .406 bullet, I would guess that your diameter is going to be .431-.432, which won't chamber.

My bore is .409 and I load .410 bullets, so I have to reduce the size of the neck on every case that I make, then again every once in a while if the brass flows and gets too thick again. After each reloading, I check every round to make sure it will chamber in the rifle.

If the problem is that the brass is too thick, the least expensive solution is a Lee three jaw chuck and the spindle that screws into it and allows you to put it in a drill and turn down the outside of the case with a file. Total cost of the tools required is less than $20 if you already have a file and a drill. The three jaw chuck clamps down on the rim and holds it firmly in place while turning the case down.

I turn the brass with the bullet seated, and stop to check the diameter fairly often. After doing a few cases, you will get a feel for about how long it takes to get close to the right amount of brass so you aren't stopping to measure all of the time. Better to be cautious though. Once you take it off, it is gone!



http://www.midwayusa.com/product/352653 ... ase-holder
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/174316 ... -jaw-chuck

[71fan]

I have some various tidbits that may or may not help:
1. Jamison makes 40-82 brass
2. I have some original 40-70 wcf cases that have wall thickness around .009 to .010. I would expect this to be comparable to vintage 40-82 brass.
3. The Jamison brass has about .001 thinner walls
4. Forster makes an outside neck turner for about $60 (IIRC). I dealt with the same problem on a Marlin 1881 and used the neck turner with success to pull .002 off the walls (.004 total).
5. My 40-70s loaded with .409 cast measure .429. Most available information references original 40 cal bullets in the .406 range. With the original brass I have, that translates to a neck of .426 plus tolerance. I'd bet you need to be in the .428~.429 range, .430 max (as a previous poster already suggested). (The above-mentioned Marlin 1881 chamber was .426.)
6. I was told by others (on this forum) that the necks can be safely turned to about .007, maybe even .006 but that's pushing the limits.

Good luck!

[SteveR]

I suspect you'll be turning a couple of thousandths off the outside of the top bit about the length of the seated bullet in the case. I think Starline brass, being of higher quality than the older Winchester stuff, starts out a bit thicker anyway and has flowed a wee bit forward as part of forming. I have the same issue when using 450 Alaskan formed from 50-110. I always have to take 3 mils off of the neck so I can chamber with a bullet in the neck. Slides in fine without the bullet as you'd expect. I bet the neck reaming left you just a couple of thousandths short of perfect in thickness.

I don't know why I'm reiterating something you already know. Maybe your brain just needs a jostling. Or maybe it's something we're not considering. As pokey said, a caliper is going to show this I think.

No, I do not have a neck reamer, only the hand held one that cleans the case mouth. Caliper reads inside case mouth at 1/4" depth at .403". I believe that it does need reaming. The reaming set is kinda expensive @ $180. Too bad that Quality Cartridge folded.

Mike,
If it is the outside diameter that is too big, then maybe you can use a drill press and some emery paper or fine grit sandpaper to ream the outside brass down.

I have used the drill press and sandpaper to do the same thing with some 8mm I reformed from 3006.
Take care,
Steve

[harry]

Mike one of these might work for ya, get the adjustable blade reamer:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPA ... M=334-1100

[Sixgun]

Been there and done that--no speculation here. The Starline brass is too thick.

Solution#1--polish your chamber and get out the oxidation.

Solution #1A---Have an inside neck reamer made. I had Forster do this--about $40---This is the easiest and best solution for long term shooting of this cartridge.

Solution#2---Take a case and trim .020 off of it and load a dummy cartridge---see if it chambers---if it don't, take another .020 off and keep doing it until it chambers.

Solution#3----Take the decapping rod out of your fls, mount it on your press and screw it in 1 thread and run the loaded round in to where it just touches the mouth. You may have tio screw the die in until it touches. Then............screw the die in 1/2 turn at a time and run the loaded round in. Keep doing this until it chambers.-----------------Sixgun

[Mike D.]

Currently mu outside neck diameter range from .430 to .433. Maybe if I run them through the sizer again after shortening them to 2.395 they may work. I'll try that in a while. Still retro plumbing in the remodeled back bathroom.

[Ben_Rumson]

For the life of me I cant fathom why the resistance folks have to making a chamber cast that will eliminate all of the guessing... Every bit of info needed will be available when done... With the way the old time chambers vary... Nowadays I do a chamber cast before I buy any tooling..

[Mike D.]

It is not an old worn chamber or bore, it is like new. I have never done a chamber cast and am not familiar with the process. What I did do was run 10 cases repeatedly though the full length sizing die and the outside neck diameters fell to .425. Next I will load one with a .406 bullet and see how it fits the chamber.

[Shasta]

Mike,

If you want to try a simple chamber cast, you can get by with beeswax or even melted crayons. Here is a link to a thread I posted on how to do it:

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=35095

SHASTA

[M. M. Wright]

Had this problem with Remington brass in 44-40 and .429 bullets. Ran the loaded rounds through the sizing die and it swedged the bullets down to where the accuracy went away. Not a good fix even though they loaded in the chambers of my old Colts. I like the Forster neck turning tool best for fixing thick necks.

[Mike D.]

I decided that a chamber cast is a must, especially since the bullets are hard into the rifling, hence the hard chambering. I actually had to use a dowel to assist the unload since the bolt couldn't be opened with the lever. 1/8" rifling marks on the bullet tip. I'll wager the chamber is not fully cut to the correct depth.

[Mike D.]

Had this problem with Remington brass in 44-40 and .429 bullets. Ran the loaded rounds through the sizing die and it swedged the bullets down to where the accuracy went away. Not a good fix even though they loaded in the chambers of my old Colts. I like the Forster neck turning tool best for fixing thick necks.

M.M., my original Frontier six shooters have .427 bores and won't accept any bullets larger than .428. My '92 with a very late .44 W.C.F. barrel mikes at .430. .429 jacketed shoot okay, but lead has to be at least .431.

[KirkD]

I made my 40-82 brass from Starline 45-90 brass. The neck walls start off thick enough, and get thicker as the case diameter is squeezed down. I sanded the outside of my necks till they slipped into the chamber with my fingers. You can turn each case by hand (I've done it and do not enjoy it), or chuck them in a hand drill and use 400 grit sandpaper to take a thou or two off the outside of the necks. There is plenty of neck wall thickness so that was not a problem. It is just a dadgummed hassle to do it to each case, one at a time. After a few shootings and case cleanings, the shiny necks dull down to match more closely the rest of the case.

[Mike D.]

Thanks, Kirk, I'll do something as soon as time allows. Shelved the project for a few weeks taking care of other issues. Here is one of my loaded rounds and how far it would enter into the chamber.

[KirkD]

Yep! That is deja vu for me. I know the feeling.