POLITICS - can't happen here, right?

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:17 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

Sincerely,

Grizz

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:43 pm

My internet (cell card) connection isn't up for youtube ATM.

If it's the one where they "bumrush", and I mean BUM, the little old lady.

It makes my bowels turn to acid mush. Dirty rotten scumbag mobsters.

"And that's all I have to say about that"

I try to send these things out to as many folks as I can to get some people to
think.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:50 pm

Disgusting - gestapo tactics.

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:02 pm

This video burns me up so bad I can't think straight. I was in New Orleans the week after Katrina hit with a large group of Sheriff's Deputies from the state of Indiana. Our mission there was to help people who stayed behind and to relieve local law enforcement. New Orleans is one of if not the most crime ridden cities in America and half the police dept. is as crooked as a snake. Seeing these jack booted thugs take firearms from law abiding citizens is more than I can stand.

1886 · Post by **1886** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:26 pm

Thugs. Captured on film. Can you say law suit? 1886.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:30 pm

None of its excusable but the old lady tops it.

& people wonder why folks dont trust the authorities. Those cops arent any different than any anywhere else, except it happened there. If it was your neighborhood, or mine, it would be the same.
Ask yourself why that cop that took down the old lady wasn't taken down by the other cops. Ask why the other LE agencies went along with the confiscations & helped. Ask why after the fact none got arested. Ask why the Mayor Nagen or whatever isn't in prison & why nobody seems to care that they arent returning the guns unless you go get them. Why arent our presidential candidates adressing the issue, isn't it important enough?

Get used to it, it happened & our Gov't dont care.
What I learned from it all is I need to lie if a cop asks me if I have a gun.

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:42 pm

You know the thing that really tics me off other than they should be shot for abusing an elderly woman that way? These same "guiding lights for humanity" are probably keeping most of the guns taken.

gregg · Post by **gregg** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:30 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE-r531Bs-I

Here you go. Putting limits on 2nd
Just receved my Life Memeber to the NRA.
Now I wondering if I did right

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:42 pm

Those cops arent any different than any anywhere else,

I don't believe that for a second...... Not all of them, by a long shot.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:56 pm

Here's the dirty truth, that wasn't just NO cops, that was also coast guard and the national guard. That's the feds stealing guns instead of upholding the constitution. The feds and the locals were all in it together.

So not one single coastie or guarsdsman or leo is on record AT THAT TIME saying whoa officer sir, that order is in direct conflict with the united states constitution. To a man, they all went along to get along, stealing from their fellow citizens.

Say it isn't so Sam.

(ok: it isn't so sam),
but
it is so so ..,

Mojo · Post by **Mojo** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:27 pm

Katrina triggered a total breakdown of society as we know it (yes, even military and law enforcement) and it should serve as a lesson to us all. When such a total breakdown occurs, whether it be caused by natural disaster or whatever, human beings revert to their most basic instinct, that being survival and law enforcement officers are not above the most basic of human instincts. It was a survival situation and they were dealing with it the best they knew how BUT they had one distinct advantage. They had superior firepower. They were not really concerned with upholding the law or public saftey, they were trying to save their own butts. People should think long and hard about what happened during Katrina because a repeat performance will be played out again.

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:29 pm

Grizz wrote:

Here's the dirty truth, that wasn't just NO cops, that was also coast guard and the national guard. That's the feds stealing guns instead of upholding the constitution. The feds and the locals were all in it together.

So not one single coastie or guarsdsman or leo is on record AT THAT TIME saying whoa officer sir, that order is in direct conflict with the united states constitution. To a man, they all went along to get along, stealing from their fellow citizens.

And you all know Blackwater was there as well, don't know for certain if they were grabbin' guns, but they were there under authority from Department of Homeland Security.

"...they characterized their work in New Orleans as "securing neighborhoods" and "confronting criminals." They all carried automatic assault weapons and had guns strapped to their legs. Their flak jackets were covered with pouches for extra ammunition."

Very disturbing, now which republican candidates don't have a problem with this? Civilians dis-armed, private "armies" paid for by you and me fully armed.

Bunkloco

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:39 pm

I don't know which is worse - NO LEO's and others abusing an old lady and trampling our rights, or that idiot Jackson stabbing us all in the back.

Jackson is worse - he knows better!

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:29 am

Many of those officers were "volunteers" from other states. They were simply there to get their JBT on, at the expence of citizens rights. As I recall, the pig who bumrushed the old lady was from CA. However they all had something in common. Lack of respect for citizens Constitutional and private property rights. I have not heard one cop who was there say "yea, I'm not very proud of what we did there". Not one. Everyones a hero now if you wear a uniform. Disgusting.

One thing to note, out of all those who had guns confiscated, how many do you think had repeated the old "from my cold dead hands" mantra? No one stood up. Everyone backed down. Anyone who stood up would have been instant targets for NG, Blackwater, and LEO's. Cops act more and more like gangsters than peace officers these days. It's a perceprion they've created, and one they have the obligation to rectify.

gregg · Post by **gregg** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:15 am

This stuff goes on all the time I bet. Just tonight a very good friend told me of his brother-in-law 4 or 5 years back was in kal driving 18 wheeler
and a truck like his had been stolen.AS you can bet he knew nothing of the stole truck. All at once he had police cars around him with lights on and a helo. He stopped and got out of the truck and they were telling him to hold his hands up. With all the noise he could not hear them. he walked tored them with his hand to his ear and a cop jumped him from the back pounding him into the black top and they jumped him hard and cuffed him beating him around and threw him in the car hitting his head on the door frame. So there he sit big knot on his head beat up and
hurting with the cuffs cutting his wrist. Numbers on the truck did not match the truck they were looking for nor the plates and they let him sit for like three hours bound up like that. He not a young man to start with. By the time they let him go he was not in good shape. He should of had a free shot at each of them bullies with a ball bat. Bad boys my ***. Bullies more like it.

dbateman · Post by **dbateman** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:24 am

thats terrible hope every one learned something from that
makes me sik that thaey can do that to people
PLEAS DONT LEET THIS HAPPEN AGIAN

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:12 am

Imagine a nice peaceful man like Joachim Slim, he just got his new 1886EL, coming home with it, and the pigs in New Orleans jump him at gun point and steal that beautiful rifle from him, and he never sees it again. It would make a man hate every policeman he ever sees again, for the rest of his life. I have to wonder why there was not shown in the news a story of one person, who really didn't give a big rip as to the consequences, fire back at someone attempting to take the guns. They must have really had the drop on the person before the gun owner knew what was going down.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:12 am

"No one stood up. Everyone backed down."

Therein lies the problem.

Johnny

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:47 am

When our Handguns were about to be banned and taken from us, thousands of Brits some LEOs too, were marching on London to protest.
We joked with the Police that lined our route and every thing went off peacefully. When fox hunting was banned thousands of Brits again marched in protest, the same police force used batons on old men and old ladies, good folks who had never broken the law were beaten like dogs by our "wonderful" police force. I have friends in the Police and I know that some of them just love to use force when they can get away with it

I know that a lot of LEOs are good people and true. But there's a lot of scum also in police uniform.

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:54 am

Bad boys, bad boys, watcha gonna do?

Rip the constitution out from under you.
______________________________________

The only thing that was "learned" during Katrina is that YOUR constitution is
"optional".

You are only allowed the freedoms they want you to have.

You will lose them at the whim of the local, state, federal govt.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:56 am

I would like to mention that you are talking over the heads of some very fine men here that are current or former LEOs....... I'm a bit upset that you paint with such a broad brush.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:33 pm

Over the years I have worked with and hunted with some fine honest police officers. I obviously can't speak for American LEOs but here in England we seem to have had a big change in attitude towards the way the police do their job. No longer do we see the smiling Bobby helping old folks across the road. We see a para military sort of police force ready to pounce on anyone "they" perceive to be a threat, instead of the public servants of old. Of course this could be due to the fact England is now the dustbin of Europe and we except anyone from anywhere to come and live here and unfortunatly that means our friendly old Bobby does not come up against the local pick pocket etc. he now faces well armed gangs with links all over the world!

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:24 pm

BlaineG wrote:
Those cops arent any different than any anywhere else,
I don't believe that for a second...... Not all of them, by a long shot.

I'm not saying theyre all bad, heck I bet most of those cops thought they were doing their jobs.
Do you doubt that YOUR police would confiscate guns if the feds or their chief ordered it?

I have friends that I think would leave me alone but likely they'd not just say no & refuse outright. If they dont refuse they they must be ready to use force if resisted. That means that its already been decided to ignore your rights & git er done.

Nobody I dont think is talking over anyones head. LEO can comment & shed light if they choose. Its not something that can be discussed I dont think without ruffling feathers. Personally I think its shameful that the mayor & officers involved in the siezures havent faced charges themselves.
The only way I see that this will be viewed as a wrong thing is if people are held responsible. If cops that do this stuff & their superiors started ending up in prison then people wouldn't be inclined to mistrust police & authority in general as much.

Least thats my opinion.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:15 pm

I'm in agreement with Leverdude, and he says it better than me, thats why.

You have bad apples in every pile, your pile, my pile, it don't matter. Increase teh pile, (city size) and you will more than likely find more of each. I think the case in point with NO/Katrina LEO's made some serious bad judgement calls and should face the penalty. But since the "Law" does not account for common sense when it comes the situation, I doubt anything will ever come of it.

And remeber this, your land is not your land. You are borrowing ownership from the government. If you think this ain't true lets ask the Indians how they feel about that sort of thing.

Johnny

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:20 pm

BlaineG wrote:I would like to mention that you are talking over the heads of some very fine men here that are current or former LEOs....... I'm a bit upset that you paint with such a broad brush.

I know it sounds horrible, I went to school with quite a few of our local LEO's
both on the village force and county sherrifs. I consider them good friends but if the order came down they would
either be the ones taking the guns or at best standing there with closed mouths.
I can feel it in my heart, and don't believe I'm wrong.

Since day one they are trained to "take command" of the situation or it could
get out of control quickly. All it takes is one person with a badge or authority
to want the guns out of the public hands and there is nothing they can do.

The second one officer decided to get that revolver from the old lady the script
was written, trust me. They cannot be seen in the public eye arguing with each
other. It won't happen.

If the people in charge want our guns they will have them. If you won't take
them from my hands your fired on the spot and replaced with one who will.

It is not up to the LEO that comes for your guns, the decision was already
made way above his head. He has no choice. The wheels are already turning.

I do not write this to be mean or hurt anyones feelings it's just the way it is.

Unless our LEO's can sit down together and plan on how to go about an
emergency then the Katrina scenario will happen EVERY TIME.

I wonder if any of officers even considered to ask the old lady to "please
keep your firearms out of sight ma'am, you have a right to have it but we
don't want any thugs to see it unless you need to use it."

I contend they saw a citizen with a gun and considered it a threat then commenced
removing the threat.

I don't know about the rest of the country but here in NY everyone knows
where the crack is sold, where the "bad guys" are. Yet all I ever see is
roadblocks to catch the busy taxpaying citizen who forgot to get his car
inspected or reregistered on time. All over the place there are hiding places
to snag someone going over the speed limit. Extra tax money is what the
our govt. is after. Like wolves picking at the edges of the herd.

Again, this is not written to hurt peoples feeling, I would be remiss not to
state what I see and how I interpret it.

I may not be "spot on" but I think what I see is closer to the truth than what
most people decide to believe.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:13 pm

Thanks Jeeps.

I'm still waiting for the thread to light up with LEOs making us believe there's no way they will ever disabuse us of our constitutional freedoms. I'm still waiting to hear from the CG guys who will refuse to execute illegal orders on American citizens. Having enjoyed CG, F&G, and numerous other's harassment in 'peacetime' I'm dubious they'll change their stripes in an 'emergency'. I'm still listening and waiting and wanting to hear it.

I suspect the truth is that when someone walks up to the Bradley with a rose we'll get our own tienennman square. We are already living in a police state, aren't we?

Grizz

gregg · Post by **gregg** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:58 am

BlaineG wrote:I would like to mention that you are talking over the heads of some very fine men here that are current or former LEOs....... I'm a bit upset that you paint with such a broad brush.

Its not like we are telling lies. These are things even the founding fathers
feared happening. IF we have that cal. of people here and I hurt there feelings to bad. If they are good men they to will be angered by others actions as much I am. Sorry I hate bullies. Just like jumping that poor old woman or a truck driver with nothing in his hands getting the heck beat out of him. NRA board member going againse the 2 nd need pointed out I think.
Blaine are you upholding that type of actions from people?

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:50 am

BlaineG wrote:I would like to mention that you are talking over the heads of some very fine men here that are current or former LEOs....... I'm a bit upset that you paint with such a broad brush.

I'm still waiting for the thread to light up with LEOs making us believe there's no way they will ever disabuse us of our constitutional freedoms.

..,

azoil · Post by **azoil** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:41 am

Grizz wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

Sincerely,

Grizz

This is shameful!

Blaine, I wish some LEOs would chime in on this thread and tell their side of this.

At what point does wearing a uniform exempt you from committing a crime?

It sounds to me that some of these folks in NO, at least the ones on this video, were robbed at gunpoint and because the robbers were wearing a badge it wasn't a crime. Total bullspit!

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:48 am

At what point does wearing a uniform exempt you from committing a crime?

At the point that it becomes a fraternity. You dont rat on your fraternity brothers do ya?

The silence speaks volumes.

azoil · Post by **azoil** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:03 am

Leverdude wrote:
At what point does wearing a uniform exempt you from committing a crime?
At the point that it becomes a fraternity. You dont rat on your fraternity brothers do ya?

The silence speaks volumes.

I guess not, maybe why I always stayed away from fraternities.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:50 am

I'm absolutely sure that stuff happened and I can't think of anything lower than those officials doing it. All I'm saying is that the wording some were using suggested that ALL would be Pigs or JBTs......That is akin to using the N word or Greaser or Wop in a hateful manner knowing full well there would be people on the Site that would be hurt by it. The opposit of PC is not intentionally rude, Gentlemen. (off soap box...sorry)

azoil · Post by **azoil** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:52 am

Blaine,

What is JBT?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:06 pm

azoil wrote:Blaine,

What is JBT?

Jack Booted Thug/Nazi

azoil · Post by **azoil** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:07 pm

ahh. Thanks!

Cherokee · Post by **Cherokee** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:57 pm

I guess I half way expected at least one LEO to post saying he would NOT do this sort of thing. Did I miss it ?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:20 pm

Cherokee wrote:I guess I half way expected at least one LEO to post saying he would NOT do this sort of thing. Did I miss it ?

Why would one willingly walk into the lion's den? I demand that you post that you WILL NOT rape a teenage girl this weekend......

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:35 pm

Lets all settle down just a bit, the problem here is no one ever really had to
think about this actually happening.

I know there are probably examples of it happening before especially with
the BATFE, but this is the first real harsh time it has been captured on film
with plain LEO's doing the work.

I stated before that technically it is not there fault, it's more to do with local
and other govt. panic causing people to make the wrong decision and the
people have to deal with the consequences.

Remember that allot of our elected leaders believe we are safer without weapons.
that is what we need to be dealing with here.

This post viewtopic.php?t=4251&sid=b711b081584d44 ... f553c52156

By Old Time Hunter is what this thread should be pushing us to do.

Also, any legislation that is directed toward "castle laws" should recieve
our UTMOST attention.

I honestly do regret if I have hurt the feelings of any LEO's we have on this
board, but I also hope that they could ponder this and give us any help
they can to understand and resolve our feelings.

Cherokee · Post by **Cherokee** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:40 pm

I don't see them as the same thing, I did not demand anything, and I will not, as you demanded, be a criminal this week.

Now, lets hear what an LEO would do - would you really risk your job, your future, your family to not follow orders to take legal firearms away from people ? I don't really expect a post because we still have ID's on this board and some of us know one another.

My point is, don't trust folks to do the "right thing" in these types of situations. You probably don't agree on what is right.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 pm

Cherokee wrote:I don't see them as the same thing, I did not demand anything, and I will not, as you demanded, be a criminal this week.

Now, lets hear what an LEO would do - would you really risk your job, your future, your family to not follow orders to take legal firearms away from people ? I don't really expect a post because we still have ID's on this board and some of us know one another.

My point is, don't trust folks to do the "right thing" in these types of situations. You probably don't agree on what is right.

I'm prolly not saying it right..... Most people will not express themselves in a hostile environment........ I was using you as an example, not a whupping boy....sorry!

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:22 pm

I don't think it's a good idea to demand explanations from people who weren't
there when it happened, or to try to conjecture as to what they would do if
this ever repeated itself in there area.(I'm sure they're doing that as we speak)

I've already explained what would "most likely" happen. The trick here is to
find a way to help our LEO's to not have to make this decision.

I think legislation about castle laws and disaster/state of emergency would
go along way to helping our LEO's not have to worry about it.

If it is against the law for an elected official to "grab guns" it might not stop
them all but once one of them went to jail it would "wake up" the others.

If you live in an area where there is no way this type of law will get passed then I suggest you try and make friends with local LEO's. Go out target practicing or some other such thing, and gently broach the subject and find
out there feelings. Get them to talk to there fellows and consider what would
happen before they get it flung upon them to get out there and "grab guns"

I'm as MAD AND upset as anyone about this happening inside our borders
but yelling and putting them on the defense is definately not the way to
fix things. (Lord knows I'm good at upsetting people when I try to make a
point)

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:16 pm

Now, lets hear what an LEO would do - would you really risk your job, your future, your family to not follow orders to take legal firearms away from people ?

Not a LEO but yes I would.

Watch a couple of those videos on LEO's taking guns from people. One family was on a boat and had two rifles. The man stated the police boat pulled within about 20 and talked to them from a distance. When the police found out they had guns then they approached. The lady in the house is a whole other case.

Johnny

donw · Post by **donw** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:21 pm

i was appalled when i saw that footage when it occured of the patrolman rushing the little ole lady, too. i was lead to believe she was asked to "give it up". but i also saw she displayed it in her hands in a NON-menacing fashion.

under the circumstances i would believe the patrolman had other options available other than the "bumsrush" tactic.

over the years, we have witnessed many tragic events like this unfold and find in the end there is no winner; only losers. on both sides of the issue.

i believe this whole episode was an overreaction by a adrenaline fueled cop who was probably overworked, overstressed, under fed, living off of double caffiene jolt cola drinks, sleep deprived and acting on what he percieved to be a threat.

i believe most LEO's are NOT bullies but, i think most act/react with a "i'm always right" or "how dare you question the police" or "we're the final authority" attitude. i also believe they believe they're doing what's right and best for all in the overall picture.

we have to keep in mind also the police are paramilitary. they're expected to respond to orders from their superiors. unlike the military, they can refuse and walk away...which usually will result in their termination as an LEO, though. as a soldier, i could not do that; refusal to comply with an order ususally meant courts martial, reduction in rank, pay and benefits and could have jail/prison time attached to it. (and in a few extreme situations, death.)

they need our help and support overall, but also need to be kept in check in ways. how did JFK word it about this country: "this is my country, right or wrong. when in the right, to be kept in the right...when wrong, to be put into the right..."

I have two VERY close relatives who are LEO...

BwanaDave · Post by **BwanaDave** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:48 pm

I liked the lady with the bible and a gun. That is the kind of spirit that made this country great and we should never forget it.

I was very disappointed in the Jackson comments. I just finished his book the other day and he seemed like a good guy. I guess you never know.

Dave

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:05 pm

BlaineG wrote:
Cherokee wrote:I guess I half way expected at least one LEO to post saying he would NOT do this sort of thing. Did I miss it ?
Why would one willingly walk into the lion's den? I demand that you post that you WILL NOT rape a teenage girl this weekend......

I WILL NOT RAPE A TEENAGE GIRL THIS WEEKEND

happy?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:43 pm

I will not rape a teenage girl this weekend.

I will NOT force ANYONE to give up their means (and therefore Right) to self defense.

Period.

Next?

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:53 pm

I would never ask another Human being to give up the means of self defense.
Especially during a time when they may need it most.(Katrina)

How in Gods name could it feel good to walk down the street knowing you
just took a little old ladies means of defense from her.

AND BEAT HER UP IN THE PROCESS.....................

About the girl....If she was 18....would it be ok if she raped me?

Sorry, had to lighten it up a tad, I don't feel like replacing any sheetrock ATM

POLITICS - can't happen here, right?

POLITICS - can't happen here, right?

Re: POLITICS - can't happen here, right?