AR upper recommendation -- 5.56, 9mm, 6.8, .300 BLK...?

[alnitak]

I have two lowers built and am considering what uppers to eventually put on them (as funds become available, so have lots of time to decide). I was originally thinking of another 5.56 (probably in a target configuration) and 9mm (maybe a suppressed SBR to complement my bug-out pistol). However, I visited the LGS/custom shop yesterday and they were pushing the 6.8, which could be used effectively for hunting (though I have leverguns for that purpose). As I was leaving the shop, I spent a few minutes talking to one of the customers outside, and he said that the current rage was the .300 Blackout (not the same range as the 5.56, but comes in subsonics so good for suppressed use).

This was the first I'd heard of either cartridge (I live a cloistered life), so I thought I'd ask the forum's opinion on which direction to go on the two builds, and the pros and cons of the four (or more with other recommendations) choices.

[Thunder50]

Pro's of the 300blk are you can use standard 5.56 mags and bolt and the round is formed from cheap 5.56 brass. Lots more 30 cal bullets available, than 6.8 (.277"). It is supposed to be a cast bullet friendly round also. Ignore those that say you will clog up the gas tube. Not quite as powerful as the 6.8 is a drawback, but plenty of oomph for 100yd + shots on deer/pigs, ect. Hopefully, mine will be here early next week!! If you cast your own bullets, it is cheap to load for.

9mm-good. Little more complicated to setup for. You will need a mag block to use the mags. I use a YMH (right initials?)mag block and use standard Uzi mags (no bolt hold open though). You will want a "ramped" carrier. Lower rear portion of carrier is angled to make a ramp so when the carrier impacts the hammer it eases the hammer back instead of slamming it back. Easier on the lower so less chance of cracking near the hammer pin holes. 50 rounds of ammo is alot cheaper too, than the other rounds.

I think I would get the 9mm first then the 300blk.

Gunshop might have had a bunch of 6.8 stuff and wanted to sell it.

[Sixgun]

opinions, opinions...............

I personally think anything other than the .223 or the .308 is about worthless in the AR. Buts thats my opinion as the only thing I use 'em for is blasting and insurance for the "coming storm"-----------read, "play toys" .

I really don't think any semi auto will ever be popular with hunters.

.223 and .308 ammo is cheap and widely available. (Bumcrap, North Dakota---"excuse me sir, do you have any 50 Beowolf ammo for sale?") Mags and scopes tuned to the .223 and .308 are about everywhere.

Besides, what can any of these weirdo cartridges do that the .223 or 308 can't at any reasonable range?------------------Sixgun

[olyinaz]

6.5mm Grendel is the only non-supressed chambering I'm remotely interested in for the AR.

300 Whisper is pretty cool if you're going to do something subsonic with a suppressor.

.50 Beowulf is cool...just because it's cool. I can think of no need for such a thing other than "I want".

Oly

[FWiedner]

opinions, opinions...............

I personally think anything other than the .223 or the .308 is about worthless in the AR... Sixgun

My opinion as well.

The AR was designed to shoot the .308.

[stew71]

I'm assuming from your post that both lowers are for the 5.56. In that case, I'd stick with the 6.8. Good enough for deer and piggies at your common hunting ranges. I've seen 6.8 SPC ammo at most gun shops so availability shouldn't be too much of an issue. Your mileage may vary of course.

As for the .300, I've never seen it outside of online sites, so my opinion is meaningless in this matter.

If I had the funds, time, and need for one, I'd pick up a 6.8 upper. But it wouldn't fill a need that isn't already filled by a dedicated hunting rifle...so...../shrug

[awp101]

I've been kicking around the same kind of thoughts for a couple of months alnitak and I'm pretty close to going 6.8 if/when I make the leap but I haven't ruled out the .30 Remington AR until I do more reading. My bud has a 6.8 that he's very happy with but he hasn't shot anything other than paper with it.

300 Whisper is pretty cool if you're going to do something subsonic with a suppressor.

I like the idea of a .30cal AR in a 5.56 package but having no plans for a muffler, I think there are better options for my situation. The plus is factory ammo is cheaper than the 6.8 (at least what I have found locally is).

.50 Beowulf is cool...just because it's cool. I can think of no need for such a thing other than "I want".

Same here. That or the .458 SOCOM. Maybe the .450 Bushmaster...

[AJMD429]

Personally I only have two chamberings in semiauto* AR uppers:

• .223 - just because it's 'standard', and pretty accurate
  .50 Beowulf - just because . . . well . . . just because ... !

If I were going for another upper chambering, I'd consider one that:

• would be easily suppressable
  use high b.c. bullets for long-range accuracy
  use cast lead bullets for short-range thump
  and use standard magazines

.338 Whisper would maybe top my list, though the .308 caliber rounds would probably be more 'practical'.

At this point in my life I have too many calibers and cartridges to keep track of and have started to 'thin the herd' and only keep the truly fun/practical ones...



*You could always consider a single-shot upper from Tactilite/Zel in 50 BMG, 416 Barrett, 408 CheyTac or 338 Lapua...

• http://www.tactilite.com/Uppers-50-BMG- ... s/1814.htm

[MrMurphy]

5.56mm, because it's the worldwide caliber.

Get a 1/8 twist and load 75 or 77s and you can take quite a bit of game.


The 6.8mm is a good round, it's not exactly cheap to shoot but gives you nearly .270 performance out to several hundred yards. Friend has used one suppressed to wipe out hogs and unsuppressed on deer, elk and various other four legged critters. Does require different mags and bolt/barrel etc.


The .300 Blackout loaded heavy or light gives you some very good options. It's a legitimate .30 caliber option without really altering anything (like mags) on a standard AR action.

The subsonic loads perform pretty much like a .30-30, use it at the same distances and you'll do fine. The lighter supersonic loads from what I've seen give something similar to .260 or say 7mm Mauser performance out to 300-400m. With a decent scope you can get a solid hit on anything you should probably be hunting in the first place (up to large mulies or elk I'd say at the high end) and drop them quick with a good bullet selection.

9mm uppers have in my experience, always had issues. I've shot everything from a factory Colt 9mm carbine, to a Colt 635 (same thing, but full auto, with factory mags) to the various conversion, and never seen one really run 'right'. They all choke eventually, or have magazine specific issues. Interesting idea, but the execution generally does leave something to be desired.

[alnitak]

9mm uppers have in my experience, always had issues. I've shot everything from a factory Colt 9mm carbine, to a Colt 635 (same thing, but full auto, with factory mags) to the various conversion, and never seen one really run 'right'. They all choke eventually, or have magazine specific issues. Interesting idea, but the execution generally does leave something to be desired.

I hadn't heard that, but good to know. I have the basic 5.56 covered. the two lowers would be for "other needs." I really like the idea of a suppressed SBR in 9mm to match my bug out pistol, but not if there are going to be issues with function. I don't do all that much hunting, and have a .30-30 and .45-70 to cover most of what I do, so don't really need an AR platform to be hunt capable. I understand the .300 BLK provide better barrier penetration and stopping power, at least in the shorter distances. Then again, not sure I need barrier penetration. Maybe the response above is the correct answer...if I'm considering something other than 5.56, then maybe it's time to go to .308.

[Streetstar]

9mm uppers have in my experience, always had issues. I've shot everything from a factory Colt 9mm carbine, to a Colt 635 (same thing, but full auto, with factory mags) to the various conversion, and never seen one really run 'right'. They all choke eventually, or have magazine specific issues. Interesting idea, but the execution generally does leave something to be desired.

Yes -- a "poor man's" alternative to the MP-5 for cash strapped pd's back in the day. Now its less common for PD's to even use pistol caliber carbines

[homefront]

I'd go 260 Remington.
Super accurate, light recoil, good for very long range.
More versatile and available than the 6.8, a good bit more punch than .223, much lighter recoil than .308.
http://demigodllc.com/articles/the-case ... remington/

[H_Talon]

the 223 will drop pigs and deer if necessary and if you do your part. (bullet placement)

if you go with w 308 based upper, 308, 7mm-08 for distance. I wanted something different
so I did a 358win upper now if I could just find a 35cal suppressor

as for a matching pistol/carbine caliber,, I could see shooting your self out of ammo real
quick. then you'd have a short club

either way get what makes you happy, in my mind common is better either way

just rambling

Talon

[AJMD429]

If you go with w 308 based upper, 308, 7mm-08 for distance. I wanted something different so I did a 358 Win upper now if I could just find a 35cal suppressor

Look at Liberty Suppressor's "Mystic" if you're going to stick with subsonics for suppessed use...

[Bridger]

AJ, you have accidentally refocused my life for me lol. That 50bmg upper is something I gotta have. Right after I get a lower. That seems to be about the cheapest way I have seen to get a .50, and I really want one of them because that is about as politically incorrect of a gun as I can imagine.

[Streetstar]

AJ, you have accidentally refocused my life for me lol. That 50bmg upper is something I gotta have. Right after I get a lower. That seems to be about the cheapest way I have seen to get a .50, and I really want one of them because that is about as politically incorrect of a gun as I can imagine.

Do a lot of homework before plunking down the cash for one of these (.50 bmg AR uppers) --- there are some good ones out there
--- on the flip side, there are some out there that have hurt people --- standard operating procedure after your upper assembly has an out of battery discharge and injures someone is to close up shop, stop answering the phone and declare bankruptcy

Sometimes you can get lucky and find an Armalite Ar-50 for less than 3k. Thats less cost than a single trip to the emergency room

[oneyeopn]

Hodgdons newest annual reloading manual has a nice write up on the 300 you should read it. The writer really wrung it out for hunting. Needless to say the person above who posted that it will be good to 300 or 400 meters hasn't done his homework. Even using handloads the most you can hope for is 150 and after that it really goes downhill. The 300blackout ballistically is identical to the 7.62x39. I have seen people hunt deer with their SKS's and unless you get a very close shot you end up wounding and having to track your prey, sometimes quite a long distance. Just like a lot of the responders above the AR platform is made for 2 rounds the 5.56 and the .308 although I really would love to have one in 243 Winchester.

[H_Talon]

Just like a lot of the responders above the AR platform is made for 2 rounds the 5.56 and the .308 although I really would love to have one in 243 Winchester.

you can get most calibers here for an A10 version .. yep a 243 win and some of the short mags .. but I have to say they aren't cheap but what is these days
runs about par for a med to high end upper and or gun ..



yep ... I love my 358win

I'll have to check out the liberty suppressors ... thanks ....

Talon

[Goat]

I just got rid of a StagArms 6.8mm. I had absolutely nothing against the round except it was expensive to shoot. I did what I should have done first, I got a 5.56mm and now will put a few rounds to the side just in case I need them. I do think I would like to have an upper that can throw a heavier and larger projectile and the 300AAC Blackout or the 300 Wilson Tacical have both caught my eye. Either one uses the 5.56 case opened up to .308" so that all that is necessary to do is to change barrels. You use the same mags, bolt etc. Smith and Wesson has even introduced the 300 Whisper. You can get at least 7.62x39mm performance and in some cases nearly match the 30/30. If you can match that grand old round then you can certainly take the same range of animals (deer sized.) I know that the right bullet in the right place is a lot more important than the latest wiz-bang anyway. Pick your toy and have your fun.
Goat

[AJMD429]

Just like a lot of the responders above the AR platform is made for 2 rounds the 5.56 and the .308 although I really would love to have one in 243 Winchester.

A friend of mine shot a Garand rebarreled in .308 at matches, and . . .

. . . his wife used a Garand rebarreled in .243 Win. . . !

[olyinaz]

On a small frame AR, the .30 Remington AR is by far the hardest hitting .30 cal chambering available. No?

I ask because it's not the latest thing like .300 Blackout, but for non-suppressed use I would think it's better and I'd not like to see the chambering falter and die.

Oly

[awp101]

On a small frame AR, the .30 Remington AR is by far the hardest hitting .30 cal chambering available. No?

I ask because it's not the latest thing like .300 Blackout, but for non-suppressed use I would think it's better and I'd not like to see the chambering falter and die.

Oly

What about brass availability for the .30 RAR? I know it was unobtainium at one point, is that still true?

[MrMurphy]

For those of you wanting more info, this PDF is put out by AAC themselves.


http://www.300aacblackout.com/resources/300-BLK.pdf

[olyinaz]

On a small frame AR, the .30 Remington AR is by far the hardest hitting .30 cal chambering available. No?

I ask because it's not the latest thing like .300 Blackout, but for non-suppressed use I would think it's better and I'd not like to see the chambering falter and die.

Oly

What about brass availability for the .30 RAR? I know it was unobtainium at one point, is that still true?

No idea, but I sure didn't find any with a quick Bing search. Doesn't bode well for the .30 RAR.

Dang shame too, it really stomped the old 7.62x39.

Oly

[Streetstar]

On a small frame AR, the .30 Remington AR is by far the hardest hitting .30 cal chambering available. No?

I ask because it's not the latest thing like .300 Blackout, but for non-suppressed use I would think it's better and I'd not like to see the chambering falter and die.

Oly

Yes -- very nice cartridge . I was somewhat waiting for it to get more of a response. I wonder if the bigger bolt face (compared to a 5,56) did it in --- the common bolt face seems to be a popular selling point for the .300 BLK, although i would prefer to have a matched barrel/bolt assembly no matter what caliber i was using

Who knows about the fickle nature of consumers

[AJMD429]

I wonder if the bigger bolt face (compared to a 5,56) did it in --- the common bolt face seems to be a popular selling point for the .300 BLK, although i would prefer to have a matched barrel/bolt assembly no matter what caliber i was using.

Interesting point, and I agree - keep the carrier/bolt with the upper.

However, I think the .50 Beowulf uses an bolt set up for 7.62x39 (itself not a bad AR round, but I think the magazine/feeding issues were a problem due to the much higher body taper). Anyway, an owner of a .50 Beowulf MAYBE could use a .30 cartridge that would use the same bolt face... (???)

[AJMD429]

P.S. Quinn's two writeups on the Beowulf:

• http://www.gunblast.com/50Beowulf.htm
  
  http://www.gunblast.com/Alex_Overwatch.htm

[madman4570]

"If" you can use a semi-rifle where you hunt(we can)-----------That .50 Beowulf without question(a must have)

Or (anywhere you ever want to hunt)on this earth(that allows such)

A .50 Cal (AR)complete gun for around $1200-------------------Priceless

or


Just for bath salted zombies! (hiding behind concrete blocked garages)--------------WHAM!

[BAGTIC]

No way a .300 Whisper/Blackout will come anywhere near a .260 or 7x57.
With a 125-130 grain bullet it is essentially a clone of the 7.62x39mm
The autoloaders are becoming increasingly popular around here. The question is whether the users are 'hunters' or 'shooters'.