Gun Store Safety

[Marlin32]

Without going into great details, I want to relay an incident this weekend.
My brother and I just finished up a morning's dove hunt, on way through town, stopped at a small town gun store (big time collectors and I would bet many here have dealt with them)
ANyway, these four yahoos are in the store, two of them have their cheap pumps on the counter, my brother and I perusing the guns on the wall, and waiting our turn, as the "real" guns are in back, and the owners know me. I am standing about two feet behind these yahoos who are working on a gun at the counter, when the gun went off. Shot away from everyone thank GOD, but shot a wall full of guns, glass breaking, it was not good. Owners were furious, but in reality, they are as much to blame as the idiot *** that brought the gun in loaded AND obviously safe was off. (they just came out of a dove field too, seen them on way in, they just beat us to the store) So Know he had gun loaded, safe off, went he put the gun into the case, and then into vehicle.

Bad deal. I am still a bit stunned.
Just a reminder, you can be safe all you want, but you better not be counting on someone else being safe, better watch others and what is going on around you at all times.

[Chuck 100 yd]

[rjohns94]

So glad no one was hurt.

[model55]

That is when the whipping began!

[AJMD429]

I can't imagine working in a gun store, and having to assume that all the customers are even being 'safe' between their car and handing a gun to me to inspect/check/trade or whatever.

At least once I get the gun in my mitts, I can make sure it is unloaded.

When handed a gun as a customer, or if I'm in one of the few remaining stores where guns are out where a customer can just pick one up, I keep it pointed at the ceiling while checking the action by peeking in the chamber, then once I'm that-well-assured it is 'safe', I make sure nobody is near or coming near, then with the muzzle up at the ceiling, I open the action more fully just to double-check. Then if I'm going to 'test it to the shoulder/eye', I either do so pointed way up at the ceiling, or I carry the gun over to a corner, and aim it a bit lower but still above bystander-outside-the-store level, then look through the sights, etc..

If I'm inspecting the action or whatever, I also take it to a 'corner' or other place where I can be sure the muzzle won't cross over anyone's path. If the store is busy, I'll ask the counter-person if it's ok that I do all this (otherwise I'm a frequent-enough customer that I've quit asking unless I know the employee doesn't recognize me as 'ok' to handle guns).

IF I want to look down a barrel, I always ask - I don't want the employees figuring I brought a cartridge in to do a suicide or glance over and think I'm doing something dangerous, and if they have a bore-light so much the better, but a thumbnail and a good light or nearby window usually works well-enough.

If I'm with a 'kid', even though MY kids could handle guns more safely at age eight than most adults I see, I would always make a point of having my hands out and 'spotting' for them, as if to keep them from accidentally pointing the gun in a wrong direction, just to keep anyone from getting nervous.

In addition I was ALWAYS taught that if you're going to 'show someone your gun' you tell them that you're going to do so (some of us get a mite nervous when someone just starts un-holstering a gun next to us), then keep the muzzle in a clearly-safe direction, de-magazine, or open-cylinder, or otherwise start unloading, then do a chamber-check, then lock the action open and hand the gun to the other individual. I ALWAYS do this, whether or not the person I'm handing the gun to is just another dude, or cop, or a store-owner, and regardless of whether or not they know enough to check the gun's status on their own, or not.

Maybe it shouldn't bother me, but it does, that I see so many store-owners, clerks, cops, DNR agents, and other 'should-know-better' types hand guns back and forth without doing ANY of these things. Often, they even allow their muzzle to cross several bystander's midsections or heads in the process...

Really, is it THAT difficult to actually be careful, and courteous. . . ? ? ? ? ?

One time, at a Gander Mountain, a friend and I were just browsing, and made note of some teenage guys that looked less-than-well-groomed (just like my friend and I probably did forty years ago ). Actually, they probably looked worse, but I know age may have colored my judgement. Anyway, we were both kind of having mixed feelings that they were (of course) gawking at the AR-15's and wanting to handle the Glocks (you know - glad young kids are still interested in guns, but kind of wishing said kids were not so 'hoody' looking). So we were doing our browsing with one eye on the kids, when we realized it wasn't the kids we should have been worried about - all of a sudden we see a uniformed cop doing a 'Weaver stance' kind of aim, chest-high, down the counter towards (but not directly at) us. We look up, and the cop waves the gun away from our area and across the rest of the (huge, Gander Mountain) store, clearly pausing now and again to see how the sights look against a person. The people were all far enough away, and/or looking the other direction, that the only people who saw all this were my friend and I and the clerk, who I know. Later, after Officer Studley had left, I went over to the clerk, and we were talking about it. I asked what the deal was, and he said the guy was just checking out some 3-dot sights he liked on a SIG; he also said that although the guy didn't dry-fire or anything, he DID clearly have his finger inside the trigger guard, and he had NOT checked that the gun was empty after it was handed to him (I hold the clerk partly at fault for handing anyone, cop or otherwise, a gun with a closed action). Anyway, he said he used to own his own small store, and if someone, even a cop, had pulled that kind of stunt in HIS store, he'd have told the guy to leave and never come back.

[C. Cash]

Wow! Will second Mike, glad all was OK. All I do when I am at the range is watch people, and shoot only when they are lined up on target. I won't even take my kids out when there are numerous people there....usually a bunch of college kids with AR's, just trying to make it go bang and not a clue regarding gun or range safety.

[AJMD429]

....usually a bunch of college kids with AR's, just trying to make it go bang and not a clue regarding gun or range safety.

When I'm in the mood, and if the kids aren't downright hostile about it, sometimes I'll approach them and either offer to show them one of my guns (if it is a suitable 'EBR' type I think they'd like), or ask to see theirs (and act appropriately 'impressed'). Once I've thus made contact, if they seem friendly enough, I'll try to work a few gun-safety hints into our conversation.

I hate to admit it, but I'm only in the mood for that on occasion; too much of the time I just cringe and wait until they're done or leave...

[Ysabel Kid]

So glad no one was hurt.

+1

[C. Cash]

....usually a bunch of college kids with AR's, just trying to make it go bang and not a clue regarding gun or range safety.

When I'm in the mood, and if the kids aren't downright hostile about it, sometimes I'll approach them and either offer to show them one of my guns (if it is a suitable 'EBR' type I think they'd like), or ask to see theirs (and act appropriately 'impressed'). Once I've thus made contact, if they seem friendly enough, I'll try to work a few gun-safety hints into our conversation.

I hate to admit it, but I'm only in the mood for that on occasion; too much of the time I just cringe and wait until they're done or leave...

Me too....about the same Doc. Some of them are a little less endearing than the others, but I do try.

[samb]

Doc,
I'm with you, i hate being handed a gun closed. It is not a good feeling. Went to buy a Turkey box call from a guy last spring had a great visit but he handed me several guns he had cycle the bolt on and then put ghe safety on, with the safety on you could not cycle the action. Each time I attempted to open the action and check to ensure a round was not up the chamber. In hindsight I should have said, something as I am sure he was not wanting me to cycle the bolt and felt he was trying to be safe by checking himself. As kids Dad and the other adults pounded into our heads check each and everytime you get a gun in your hand. And keep your trigger finger off the trigger. Still shouldering this guys guns with my finger clear but not knowing gave me the willy's.

I had a crazy cousin who intentionally touched off a round in the cab of the wood truck one night with the barrel pointed at the open window. I for a second was convinced he had shot me. Could feel a warmth flush engulf my lower torso, was convinced I was bleeding out. He got a good pounding once us boys got the truck stopped.

[cshold]

Wow

The title I’d have used…
"6 or 7 people won the lottery over the weekend at a small town gun store”

[wecsoger]

I would put up a poster on the front door, with names and pictures of them if possible. "These people had a firearms negligent discharge inside this store. They are no longer welcome here. Unload all weapons before entering. Now Please check them again."

I would also put a poster up over the section of the wall where the damage is, with words to the same effect.

The people in question can not claim slander since they words are completely true. And they deserve to be shamed.

Idiots.

People like that are the reason I don't go to the range when there's a lot of people around and I stay out of crowded gun stores too.

[mohavesam]

A little family-owned gun shop I used to haunt had a simple rule, EVERYONE, even if in uniform, kept their gun holstered and UNTOUCHED. If a customer came in with a cased gun or one for sale, it went on the counter and a counterman opened the case and checked it out. No exceptions.

The rule was, if you can't abide by the rule, you're not a friend.

This is why I shopped there for years: I once witness a gun(s) being drawn there - a customer was looking over a pistol and pulled a cartridge from his pocket. The pinhead apparently wondered if the gun would "fit" his bullet. Immediately the counterman yelled & stepped back and drew his pistol, ready at a 45 degree two-handed stance. He commanded to drop the round and the gun NOW. Then a second and third counterman drew their guns also!

Seems a potential "suicide-in-store" training had put everyone on edge, and the old-timers running the counter would rather shoot than have someone go hari-kari in front of them.

It was a harrowing experience, I can say. My own Star PD was under my jacket and I can tell you I was tempted to - but did not - reach for it.

No gun shop could withstand an accidental shooting death in the store these days. Without insurance, the doors get chained, period.

[piller]

I would be tempted to ask, "Can I shoot back?" Loudly and from directly behind them. Probably wouldn't, but I would sure be tempted. That was a negligent discharge, not accidental. Accidental is from something happening beyond the shooter's control, such as while at the range, the sear breaks and the gun fires without any pull of the trigger. Negligence is never acceptable with a firearm.

[mohavesam]

You know, I never agreed with the "accidental" vs. negligent" discussion. I always thought that was an armchair argument penned by a gunrag writer suffering from writer's block long ago. If it wasn't intended, it was an accident.

Same as plowing one car into another. Negligence is analysis, accident is fact. I once shot into the wall left of my loading bench. I had a round go off downrange in front of two dozen Marines. I had a brand-new Springfeild 1911 go full auto and perforate the range roof.

Negligent, ignorant, careless, inattentive, oblivious, dim-witted, foolish, stupid?
Of course. But factually accidental.
No slam or thread drift intended, I just never agreed in logic.
Anyway, the incident I described above ended without a shot. But never forgotten obviously!

[Hobie]

Accidental/negligent discharges will eventually happen. Just about every gun store has had at least one and those that haven't, will. We check every gun. We watch every customer as best we can. There is a camera on everything to bear witness.

[1894c]

YIKES... :O

[olyinaz]

Glad everyone is OK!!

Wow.

Oly

[AJMD429]

Maybe a good point to make to folks would be the concept that there's "safety" and there's "etiquette", and the etiquette is a set of behavior protocols which fosters the safety.

We have pamphlets that state the core 'basics' - "every gun is to be assumed to be loaded", "never point at anything you don't want to kill", etc., but maybe some pamphlets that show/list the 'etiquette' or 'protocol' stuff like to "ALWAYS remove the magazine, and lock the action open, before handing the gun to another individual", or whatever, would help.

LOTS of this could be helped if we all made sure that WE were involved in the instruction of any and all 'newbies', so they got a thorough grounding in the proper behavior, not just the 'core' stuff.

Anyway, thankfully everyone survived this particular incident...

[centershot]

They're everywhere!!! You just can't fix stupid.............

[FWiedner]

They're everywhere!!! You just can't fix stupid.............

Hmm... well... Not if you don't try.

AD's are always upsetting to the sensibilities, and especially so if there are injuries involved. Accidents happen, and for most circumstances it's a waste of breath calling people names. Eh... unless it just makes ya feel better.

The best use in recall for each and every one of these events is to use the facts to teach all shooters, new and old alike about better gun safety, e.g., how to handle a gun coming out of the field, gun-store manners, muzzle and trigger discipline, and other considerations regarding how a dangerous and damaging accident could have been avoided.

Glad to hear no one was hurt. Hope they come to an equitable agreement on the damages.

[Birdman]

Glad the folks are all OK. Material things can be replaced but as everyone else is saying, you gotta look out for the stupid one in the crowd. Trouble is, you don't know who it is until it's too late.

[wecsoger]

AD's are always upsetting to the sensibilities

Minor quibble and I'm not personally picking on you......

There are truly very few accidental discharges.

There are many, many negligent discharges.

I can't give anyone slack in the matter of safety concerning firearms.