new guy, old Winny, and a question.

[hotlead]

Good evening everybody! new guy here checking in from California.

I bought this nice old Winchester Model 1892, S/N 4088xx, for my Wife for Valentines Day about 15 years ago. The best I have been able to discern, is that this rifle was made in 1907 in either .25-20 or .32-20, and sent back to Winchester to be rebarrelled in .357 and nickelled. The nickel is on top of some of the historical kisses, and real strong on the receiver, but some of the plumb is showing through on the barrel.



It worked just fine until a few years ago my Brother said "Hey, I know all about those things. I've got a 94, let clean it up for you, and make sure everything is OK".

The next time I saw it, the barrel and receiver were on one end of the bench, and the rest if it was on the other. He got it back together, but since then, the magazine spits all the cartridges out under the elevator(the thing that brings the cartridge up to the chamber mouth) every time the action is opened and the elevator raises.

The question is, what could contribute to this condition? Lost spring? Parts in backwards?

Thanks ahead of time.

[J Miller]

hotlead,

Welcome to the forum.

The minute he said "I got a 94" you should have snatched it back from him.
The two are totally dissimilar internally.

I can't say exactly what is wrong, but it has to do with the cartridge stop. Installed wrong, or the spring is in wrong, but the cartridge stop is not working.
The stop is located at the forward end of the left side of the receiver just under the cartridge guide.
With the action open it pivots out under spring pressure to stop the cartridges from leaving the magazine. When the action closes the bolt pushes the stop out of the way allowing one cartridge to exit the magazine an slide on the lifter.
So that's where to look.

Go to our home page and check out the section for Winchester info. There is exploded drawings and technical info galore there.

Joe

[Old Savage]

Welcome - hope this can be solved by the info available. Of course there is always Stevesgunz.

[Borregos]

Joe knows what he is talking about, good advice
Welcome

[earlmck]

Yep, Joe's got it right. Cartridge stop spring is probably installed wrong, which is real easy to do.

And welcome to the stump, hotlead!

[3leggedturtle]

Welcome aboard. Nice looking rifle. Winchester rebarreled it to 357?

[Griff]

Yep, believe ol' Joe got the problem diagnosed correctly! And yeah, a '94 ain't a '92! The rechambering to .357Mag probably wasn't done by Winchester. But any number of competent gunsmiths did those mods in years past. It certainly revitalized a shot-out barrel. Nice looking rifle, BTW. I've always avoided a nickeled gun, but am happy to admire them from afar! (Nothing wrong with a nickeled gun... just too shiny for me!

and Welcome to THE Forum.

[1894c]

HELLO...brothers are good for allot of things, apparently not too good for gunsmithing... :)

[C. Cash]

Wow! Welcome!

[gak]

Welcome aboard! Good folk abound here to help you out and regularly put a smile on your face with their tales -and occsionally tails, that is good dog stories 'n such!

[Pete44ru]

I agree with Griff - I've never heard of Winchester accepting a customer's (used) rifle for rebarrelling to a different/uncataloged chambering, nor nickeling.

It's definitely an aftermarket/gunsmith job/conversion - nice looking, to boot !

Ya gotta do the spring thing - and if you take it apart, please remember to have an empty cartridge case in the boltface when reassembling, so everything will go back together copasetically.


.

[Griff]

I agree with Griff - I've never heard of Winchester accepting a customer's (used) rifle for rebarrelling to a different/uncataloged chambering, nor nickeling.
It's definitely an aftermarket/gunsmith job/conversion - nice looking, to boot !
Ya gotta do the spring thing - and if you take it apart, please remember to have an empty cartridge case in the boltface when reassembling, so everything will go back together EASIER.
.

Fixed that for us less than doctorate degreed types!

[Pete44ru]

.
Wha chu smokin', boy ? . . .



.

[hotlead]

Thanks very much for the help fellas, I'll take a look at the info page you cited......two more,

What is the thing about keeping a cartridge case in the bolt face on reassembly?

The barrel is Winchester marked and has some booboos under the nickel, just like the receiver, would it have been ordered from Winchester and then installed by the Smithy? I see no evidence of the old caliber markings being removed or struck over with the current markings.

[pwl44m]

Welcome hotlead, U have a stickler there. What does the barrel say for a caliber designation ?
There is a Guy on this forum that may be able to help.Twobit is His name, He is doing a survey on Win 92s. I'm sure He will chime in.
Perry

[M. M. Wright]

The original barrel was probably re-bored to the .357, which would of course leave the original markings on it. Was a very common modification during the 50s and 60s or even before. Too, it's easy for a good hand to change the caliber marking to where you can't see it's been done. Does take a good hand though.

Oh, welcome to the fire! And listen to Joe, he knows a lot.

[Griff]

What is the thing about keeping a cartridge case in the bolt face on reassembly?

It's to hold the ejector in position as the bolt is re-installed. Sorta acts like a "3rd-hand".

The barrel is Winchester marked and has some booboos under the nickel, just like the receiver, would it have been ordered from Winchester and then installed by the Smithy? I see no evidence of the old caliber markings being removed or struck over with the current markings.

Nickel plating can hide any number of ills. Winchester Repeating Rifles has never offered the mdl 1892 in .357 Mag. The only 1892s produced in .357 with the "Winchester" name on the barrel were(are?) made under license by Miroku of Japan. I don't know if the thread pitch is the same on the originals. Even if they are, I can't imagine someone ordering a new barrel from Miroku, having it nickeled and installed on an antique 1892.

I will tell you that the conversion from .32-20 to .357 was quite popular.

[Booger Bill]

Is your brother still alive? I seriously doubt winchester did the conversion. They wouldnt do it. I had one converted to .357 myself over 40 years ago. I had it rebored by someone and fitted up by a gunsmith friend. He had to bush the fireing pin too. Even worse, I had a old shot out 32 win 73. I had that one converted to .38 special.

[bdhold]

Is your brother still alive?

of course - he disabled the firearm

[Griff]

Is your brother still alive?

of course - he disabled the firearm

There's still the "old ways" of taking care of problems....

[hotlead]

Brother Hotlead still lives, though pretty precariously.........

Maybe some pics would help,

[earlmck]

Brother Hotlead still lives, though pretty precariously.........

I'd cut brother hotlead a little slack -- those model 92's are about 2/3 tricky to get back together. And that danged little cartridge-stop spring may be the sneakiest part in there: every other part only has one way it can go. The cartridge-stop spring can go together just fine when put in backwards, and when you are putting it together the "backwards" position is easiest (guess how I know ). If you draft brother hotlead to help you make the correction then you'll both know about it for next time.

And hey, that is a fine looking old rifle. Now if you can just find a little of that AR2205 powder for making loads -- ooops! that was another thread: KiwiKev's 357 rifle. Us old guys get mixed up easy, ya' know.

[pwl44m]

Well I see the proof mark on the receiver but not on the barrel. The ring forward of the 357 says to Me it was rechambered with the old barrel fitted to it.
Perry

[olyinaz]

Well I see the proof mark on the receiver but not on the barrel. The ring forward of the 357 says to Me it was rechambered with the old barrel fitted to it.
Perry

Certainly what I'm thinking.

[hotlead]

How would they have done that?

Chuck the stripped barrel/receiver into a fixture, drill and rifle the barrel, and ream the chamber?

[Hagler]

hotlead,

Here is an excerpt from the Browning B-92 Field Service Manual (click to enlarge):

Browning B92 Cartridge guide installation smaller.jpg

The cartridge stop spring can be put in backwards. This will give you a feeding problem, like the one that you are encountering. Here is the cartridge stop:

B92 Cartridge stop larger.jpg

The caliber marking appears to be a non-factory-applied stamping. The groove, or ring, ahead of the caliber designation, may indicate that two barrels were welded, or threaded, together. There are gunsmiths that manufacture new barrels, and then they externally thread the chamber end to fit into the old barrel of a gun that has had its barrel cut to just about 5"-to-6" (or so) & its chamber threaded internally. The two pieces are then screwed together. These are called "stub barrels", and they are a way to get a caliber that your gun was never offered in. Here is a picture of a T/C barrel that was stubbed:



This page explains how it's done:

http://eagleviewresearchcenter.com/eagl ... atures.htm.

Our own Hobie even wrote about it:

http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2 ... bbing.html

Shawn

[hotlead]

I'll be danged, I never heard of threading a chamber section onto a barrel, awesome!

And thanks for the pics, most helpful. I came to the right place, it seems