Hodgdon load data, can this be right?

[Chuck 100 yd]

I sent this e-mail to Hodgdon`s today.

Friends at Hodgdon,
I was looking through the load data on your site for the .45 Colt Ruger Only Data.

Under the 300 gr.SPR JFP bullet data using H110 it shows....

21.8 gr. H110 @ 1191 FPS and 26,700 cup starting load and...

22.2 gr. H110 @ 1198 FPS. And 30,100 cup as max. Load

Can this be right??? .4 gr. Powder only gains 7 FPS. While increasing pressure by 3,400 cup ???

It will be interesting to see what they say.

[ollogger]

Hodgdons annual manual from this year & last year says the same thing
I like H110 in my 45 with 255 gr. lead & LIL GUN with 300 gr.


ollogger

[harry]

I sent this e-mail to Hodgdon`s today.

Friends at Hodgdon,
I was looking through the load data on your site for the .45 Colt Ruger Only Data.

Under the 300 gr.SPR JFP bullet data using H110 it shows....

21.8 gr. H110 @ 1191 FPS and 26,700 cup starting load and...

22.2 gr. H110 @ 1198 FPS. And 30,100 cup as max. Load

Can this be right??? .4 gr. Powder only gains 7 FPS. While increasing pressure by 3,400 cup ???

It will be interesting to see what they say.

Handloader had a write up about several pistol powders last year that lost velosity as the powder charge was increased. I don't remember the powders but they were testing them in the 357,44 and 45 colt. I think it is fairly common for such things to happen though.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Why would anyone subject their gun to that much more pressure to only gain 7 FPS ?

I have seen load manuals that only give one charge weight (the maximum ) and say DO NOT REDUCE.
I have even seen this with faster burning powders in rounds like the .38 special.

I have not used H110 all that much but find it shoots very accurately under a 240 gr. bullet in my Marlin 1894 carbine.

[piller]

I have used the 300 grain Speer flat nose JSP in my Ruger, and used H110 in the load listed. I know it starts at 21.8, but my old Speer manual 13th edition has a little lower volume as being usable. I usually use 21.5 grains, and have had not a bit of trouble. It does kick a bit, but it is very accurate with that loading.

[41 Redhawk]

Handloader had a write up about several pistol powders last year that lost velosity as the powder charge was increased. I don't remember the powders but they were testing them in the 357,44 and 45 colt. I think it is fairly common for such things to happen though.

I saw this with Lil" Gun in a 41 Mag.

[mikld]

Why would anyone subject their gun to that much more pressure to only gain 7 FPS ?

I have seen load manuals that only give one charge weight (the maximum ) and say DO NOT REDUCE.
I have even seen this with faster burning powders in rounds like the .38 special.

I have not used H110 all that much but find it shoots very accurately under a 240 gr. bullet in my Marlin 1894 carbine.

A consciencous reloader wouldn't. I too have seen those data "do not reduce", but found I have no need to use that powder, and could find a suitable powder that is listed with some lee-way for the reloader. Several years ago I used H110 for my .44 magnums, but found it a bit un-nerving to use a powder that had .5 gr. or less, difference between starting and max. so I dropped that powder and found other, more forgiving powders...

[Tycer]

Handloader had a write up about several pistol powders last year that lost velosity as the powder charge was increased. I don't remember the powders but they were testing them in the 357,44 and 45 colt. I think it is fairly common for such things to happen though.

I saw this with Lil" Gun in a 41 Mag.

Me too in 360 Dan Wesson with LG

[Chuck 100 yd]

mikld , I agree! That was the reason I have not used H110 very much at all.
If it is that touchy about slight changes in amount used then any other unintended variables in the load can also drastically change performance (pressure wise).
A great reminder to handloaders to use and heed reliable data and stay safe.

[AJMD429]

My favorite load was 6mm Remington for 85 grain bullets using IMR-4831 - one could carefully weigh the proper charge and compress it by seating the bullet, OR one could just 'dip and shake' the cases, then dump out the excess down to the base of the neck so you could seat the bullet. Both methods were sub-MOA with neck-turned, neck-sized brass! The 'maximum charge' my reloading manual listed was quite a bit MORE than a full case-full.

Those 'touchy' powders spook me, though...

[Buck Elliott]

H-110 doesn't really "go to work" in straight-walled revolver cartridges until pressures climb above about 35,000 psi, and works best with heavy-for-caliber bullets..
In the .45s, that would mean 300 grains and above.. That is what makes the powder so useful in heavy (5-shot) .45 Colt loads, and in the .454 Casull, where it just keeps working harder, up to at least 65,000 psi.. I really don't much care what it does, too far beyond that point, but in proofing my .454 rifle, I ran loads up into the 95,000 + psi range, with no erratic powder behavior.
It has been my (extensive) experience with H-110/W-296, that it is a very forgiving powder, when used in anything approximating its proper niche..
It always worked great for me, in the .357, using 165-gr hard cast bullets, and in the .44, with 265-gr and heavier cast slugs.
There are better powders for other applications, and one has to be careful not to try to make any powder give optimum performance outside its prescribed parameters.. I would not suggest loading IMR-4831 in a .45 Colt as a regular practice, but have found that H-4198 gives stellar performance - for my need - in that same cartridge, shooting 250-grainers, from my various revolvers, and from a Uberti '73 rifle..

[Chuck 100 yd]

Buck Elliott , Thanks for the reply pard. What I will be doing is loading some Hornady 300gr.XTP
Bullets in the "Ruger Only" range for my Ruger Redhawk 7 1/2" .45 Colt. Hodgdon data for 300 gr jacketed bullets is for the SPR JFP bullet that measures .451" and the XTP`s are .452".

I sent for the Hornady manual and will get it mid week. Hoping to get a little more usable info and also an answer from Hodgdon would be nice.

I want to be able to test this bullet running hard in the RedHawk. I have some great and accurate cast bullet loads so far for it. It`s a fun hobby.

I sent the cylinder to cylindersmith.com to have the throats opened to .4525" and that cut my group size right in half.

[44-40 Willy]

I've used H110 when testing loads in my 357 rifles, but like said above, not enough leeway for me to keep using it.

[Buck Elliott]

H-110/W-296 (YES.. THEY ARE IDENTICAL...) does not work well in low-pressure applications, often showing erratic performance, due to inconsistent burning.. Higher pressure ensures more even burning with this powder, and better accuracy and power..

Very light charges CAN and Do result in random pressure spikes, or, under odd circumstances, something that could wreck even a strong revolver. This can happen if a small portion of the light charge is ignited, starting the bullet out of the case, and possibly into the forcing cone, before the rest of the charge ignites -- meeting what seems to be a bore obstruction.. that is how it was explained to me, by a Hodgdon tech, many years ago.. The same might also apply when using light-for-caliber bullets, with lighter charge weights.. There are many other powders that would work well in those circumstances, leaving the 110/296 for heavy-duy loadings..

That is why both Hodgdon and Winchester warned against light charges of the stuff.. (FWIW, Hodgdon now owns Winchester Powders...) Used properly, H-110/W-296 will give higher velocities with lower relative pressures, than any alternative powders, for the cartridges under discusion here..

[John Y Cannuck]

H-110 doesn't really "go to work" in straight-walled revolver cartridges until pressures climb above about 35,000 psi, and works best with heavy-for-caliber bullets..

Noted the same thing. As some of you know, I sometimes play with stuff I should not. One such thing was H110 in the 38-40 (model 92 Winchester) The results on the chronograph were all over the map, the velocities varied wildly, but stabilized as loads went up. I gave it up when I knew pressures where getting nuts.

Thinking about that instability later, I was glad I stopped. Those velocity spikes = pressure spikes. The REASON they tell you not to go below minimum loads.
And probably why they don't list it for the 38-40.

[Griff]

Excellent explanation Buck. Thank you for the clarifications that I've heard for years as simple admonishments, but no real explanation.

[rogn]

The powder is really good in full power loadings, we use about 23.0 gr w/ Hornady 300gr XTP. Results out of the Rossi 20" ers is great , velocity is about 1700fps!, and accurate, However in the Redhawk, Ive seen a few misfires and stuck bullets. This eeems to be the greatest risk, follow up a stuck bullet and who knows, even the Reddy cant keep that together. I really like the carbine H110 loads, but am addicted to VV N110 in the handgun. Ball powders excel in their operational ranges, but can produce subpar performance when you step out of that envelope. The small increase in velocity in the data is probably only a"node" in the velocity, pressure, chaarge relationship. This is probably somewhat different with another test barrel, not monumental, but observable.