Which works the best for you, 44-40 or 45 Colt?

[hightime]

Actually I'd also throw 357 into the question. I know there are many more accurate calibers , but limiting the question to these. In my rifles, I couldn't get my 45 Colt loads to shoot as good as my 44-40 out of Two 24'' oct. toggle type Ubertis. If I get 6'' groups with the 45, I get 3'' with the 44-40. Is it because the thinner, slightly tapered brass, seals better?
I know I'm obsessing, that's what I do. If the 45 shot better I'd be working on the 44-40. I won't go into all the loads that I've tried, just wondering if anyone else has had the same results.

Owen

[J Miller]

.45 Colts rifles can be picky. They can be deadly accurate, or they can be totally inaccurate. I've had examples of both.

The last time I had my Win 94AE Trapper in .45 Colt to the range it was shooting 2" groups at 100 yds. With the right loads most of them will shoot accurately.
The one thing I've learned is that every lever gun I've had chambered for .45 Colt shot better with bullets at .454" or so.

Joe

[Terry Murbach]

THEY ALL WORK EQUALLY WELL IN DIRECT PROPORTION TO THE QUALITY OF THEIR COMPONENTS, THE QUALITY OF THE ID AND OD OF THE FIREARMS AND COMPONENTS USED, AND THE QUALITY AND SKILL OF THE PERSON CHOOSING, USING, AND ASSEMBLING THOSE COMPONENTS INTO THE BEST VIABLE AMMUNITION FOR THE SPECIFIC FIREARMS INVOLVED. THIS IS THE WORK OF A HANDLOADER.
JUST TOSSING TOGETHER WHATEVER YOU CAN GRAB WITH WHATEVER INFO AND DATA YOU SCROUNGE FROM THE INTERNET IS A RELOADER..... THE " GIMME A RECIPE" BOYS WHO ARE A WASTE OF PRIMERS AND PROPELLENTS BY'N'LARGE.
LOOK AT THE RESULTS COLOSTEVE GETS; YOU DO NOT THINK IT IS AN ACCIDENT HE CAN SHOOT HIS LEVER GUNS WITH FINE ACCURACY ALL THE WAY TO 300 YARDS, DO YOU ??

[Buck Elliott]

I agree with Joe.. The several Uberti .45 Colt '73s that have passed through my hands over the years have ALL shot remarkably better with hard-cast, .454" diameter bullets, even though the barrels run pretty consistently at ,451" groove diameter.. 2" groups @ 100 yards were not uncommon, when my eyes were better, and I can still hit the head of a standing jackrabbit at 75 yards, offhand..

[AJMD429]

I think the biggest factor is the fact that most 45 Colts seem to have 'generous' chamber dimensions, and I'll bet the throats and bores aren't always much better. Ones I've had (along with 44 Magnum) slugged at the top end or slightly above recommended specs. I don't know about 44-40 though as I've never had one.

Anyway, as TERRY said, I'll bet if you get the right (likely 'oversize') bullets and so on you will have better results.

[williamranks]

You might want to slug them. I have a Moroku/Winchester in 44-40 sitting here that slugs .429 instead of .427.
Makes sense since they also made it in .44 mag. Why would they make .427 barrels when they already have .429's on the shelf.
I'm not complaining. All I need is a .44 mag expander plug and there are a lot more choices of .429 slugs than .427.

[Griff]

THEY ALL WORK EQUALLY WELL IN DIRECT PROPORTION TO THE QUALITY OF THEIR COMPONENTS, THE QUALITY OF THE ID AND OD OF THE FIREARMS AND COMPONENTS USED, AND THE QUALITY AND SKILL OF THE PERSON CHOOSING, USING, AND ASSEMBLING THOSE COMPONENTS INTO THE BEST VIABLE AMMUNITION FOR THE SPECIFIC FIREARMS INVOLVED. THIS IS THE WORK OF A HANDLOADER.
JUST TOSSING TOGETHER WHATEVER YOU CAN GRAB WITH WHATEVER INFO AND DATA YOU SCROUNGE FROM THE INTERNET IS A RELOADER..... THE " GIMME A RECIPE" BOYS WHO ARE A WASTE OF PRIMERS AND PROPELLENTS BY'N'LARGE.
LOOK AT THE RESULTS COLOSTEVE GETS; YOU DO NOT THINK IT IS AN ACCIDENT HE CAN SHOOT HIS LEVER GUNS WITH FINE ACCURACY ALL THE WAY TO 300 YARDS, DO YOU ??

+1.

I've been on both ends of this spectrum... sometimes I've asked others what they use... but I seldom leave it at that... I tend to try tweakin' whatever formula I start with and try for better accuracy. I've done less of that since I started cowboy action shooting, as the goal is different in that game. However, I still have rifles I'm trying wring better accuracy out of, even in .45Colt. And therefore, experiment constantly with different powders, lubes, sizing, seating depths, crimps, ad nauseum. Sometimes I feel like a benchrest shooter in the loading room, without the ¼MOA groups to show for it!

It gets really frustrating when trying to get ONE load that shoots great in two different rifles... seldom gonna happen... but hope springs eternal! I've got four 45Colt rifles, all like slightly different loads. For my CAS stuff, it doesn't matter a great deal, but wanting to shoot cowboy levergun silhouette, gotta pick a load that'll exceed "cowboy" accuracy by wide margin.

[KirkD]

The 44-40 and the 45 Colts are two different animals. Even the same cartridge in two different bores can be two different animals. Here are some factors I consider when developing a good load for my rifle, by no means exhaustive:

• For velocities 1,400 fps or lower, I use soft cast bullets (which is all of my reloading except for my 30-30 where I use water-dropped wheel weights and a gas check
  
  Generally start by sizing my bullets to .001 over groove diameter (groove diameter varies from gun to gun)
  
  To make sure I get that extra bit sealing due to the lead bullet being 'bumped up', I use a medium speed powder (Blue Dot, 2400, and 5744) Slower speed powders like IMR 4198, RL 7 or IMR 3031 might not give a good enough pressure spike to bump that bullet up
  
  If I have a sooty case, my peak pressure is too low. I need to use a faster powder or a bit more of the same powder to get a higher velocity
  
  I like to stay with the original velocities for old time's sake, so if I have sooty cases, I'll use a faster powder, rather than increase velocity by much
  
  Bullet design can be a factor ..... I like lots of lube and a fairly tall groove-riding portion of the bullet, with the nose not more than 1/3 of the total length of the bullet, more or less
  
  Cotton filler usually increases the burn efficiency, which means you use slightly less powder for the same velocity
  
  A gas check usually tightens the groups up a bit if your bore is a little rough (like 120 year-old bores can be sometimes)
  
  I consider myself as having a good load when I can consistently get five-shot, 100 yard groups that are less than 2 inches. With slightly rough bores (which a lot of old Winchesters might have) I might have to settle for 2 & 1/2 inch, five-shot groups at 100 yards.

[AJMD429]

It gets really frustrating when trying to get ONE load that shoots great in two different rifles... seldom gonna happen... but hope springs eternal! I've got four 45Colt rifles, all like slightly different loads.

Yep. Would be nice if one 'ideal load' would work in all guns so chambered...!

[M. M. Wright]

I like the 44-40 better, but then I burn a lot of ffg and want the better sealing properties of the thin cases. I use .429 bullets because my Uberti 73s have that groove diameter. Makes me use only Winchester or Starline brass because it is slightly thinner and allows chambering in the Colt's cylinder. The rifles are never a porblem. I'm guessing their chambers are right at max dimensions. I use a 44 Mag expander which is a couple of thousandths bigger so I don't crush a bunch of necks when seating.

I like the 45 Colt too but don't have rifles in that calliber, just old Colts which I usually load with .452 bullets so I know I'm not gonna get outstanding accuracy from them. Like Griff said, it don't matter in SASS.

[hightime]

I like the way you think Kirk.

What you guys said make a lot of sense. I for one, am glad to have this hobby. If it was too easy , it wouldn't be much of one. I was just wondering which was the most challenging for others.

Owen

[KirkD]

Owen, I also loaded for a Winchester (Miroku made) model 92 in 45 Colt. That was a quite a few years ago and I don't seem to have the load data. One thing I do know .... I've had several different 44-40's and have never had much problem finding a good load for them. My latest load is 17.7 grains of 5744 plus cotton filler under an Accurate Mould GC bullet sized to .431 for my original '73. It works so well I'm not working on any other loads right now, although I may play around a bit with Blue Dot later this summer.

[Buck Elliott]

You don't have to resort to alchemy to wring gilt-edged accuracy from most .45 Colt rifles.. You do have to be deliberate and methodical, and not surrender to the impulse to randomly try everything under the sun to get what you think you're after...

Decide what it is you want to accomplish, then do some homework to discover the best way(s) to achieve that result.. Learn as much as you can about the properties of your proposed components, and be acutely aware of your strengths and limitations in the field of load development..

If economy is your primary concern, there are literally thousands of tried-&-true "recipes" available to anyone who takes the time to look..

A search for premium performance led me through an interesting journey, culminating in the use of H-4198 powder, combined with Oregon Trail .454"-diameter bullets, which gave me both the velocity, consistancy and accuracy I had hoped for; all geared toward use in a Uberti '73 rifle.. Wonderfully, my load also gives top-notch performance in my .45 Colt revolvers..

[hightime]

One of the things that you guys have called to my attention is that chamber size is large in my 45. Soot is quite prevalent on cases. This leakage always shows on one spot. That must affect accuracy. Using large bullets probably helps in the barrel, but probably also helps expand and seal the brass. That along with a fast burning powder could be a good recipe. I'm also going to use my lightest brass. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy this. Hearing about others favorite loads is just another tool and maybe a clue to something I never thought about.

Thanks, Owen