POLITICS - America is dying.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:29 pm

Our nation has a disease and sadly there is no cure. Our politicans of this once great nation have put her on her death bed.

Lady Liberty will die.

The US and Canada have agreed to use each others forces in "Civil Emergencies". The NAFTA Super Highway will be built. The Amero will be the common currency in the North American Union, made up of Canada, The US and Mexico. Cantrell Fields will be depleted around 2010 in Mexico, which make up 37% of the nations econmy.

By 2010-2012 this once great nation will be dead.

Johnny

engravertom · Post by **engravertom** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:31 pm

I share your concern.

But God will write the last chapter!!

Tom

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:52 pm

But God will write the last chapter!!

I agree.

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:26 pm

its sad. but it has happenned to all the great civilizations. i think america peaked somewere between 1946 and 1963. the beginning of the end was the jfk assaination. seems like it really started going down hill after that. most thriving nations have a strong middle class. thru union busting, nafta , and corporate taxbreaks, our middle class is no more. our elected officials ignore our wishes, and sell their influence to the highest bidder. its been coming slowly over the last 40 years.while we fight over the gingerbread issuses; the witch waits inside the house to draw us in.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:33 pm

The beginning of the end was the FDR administration and the elemination of the Gold Standard & creation of Social Insecurity.

It's been all downhill Socialisim since then (with the breif exception of the Reagan Holding Action...)

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:35 pm

The spirit of Chicken Little lives on!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:36 pm

Blackhawk wrote:...By 2010-2012 this once great nation will be dead.

That or the few Patriots that are left will start from scratch.

Regardless of the "government" the Constitution IS.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:44 pm

Charles wrote:The spirit of Chicken Little lives on!

Actually, there is sociodynamic precedent to show that the US is on the cusp of a Socio-economic crisis to challange the Depression.

We have a major Crisis aproximately every 80 years (and a "minor", more "spiritual" one on alternate 40s).

They have been talking about it (the cyclically predicted 2010 crisis) since the 90s.

IIWY I would go look at the work of Historians Strauss & Howe who have written a series of scholarly works on the cyclical nature of Generational Archetypes.

Generations
13th Gen ("Abort, Retry, Fail")
Millenials Rising
The 4th Turning

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:49 pm

wheter you agree or diagree with all the actions that fdr did. it gave the populace some hope. communisim was starting to gain a foothold in our country. people were disperate and grasping at straws. while this resulted in the country becoming a bit more socialist, it was better than the alternative of a communist revolution. i know that when i retire , i,ll need social security and medicare to suppliment my pension and savings. i had no choice,but to pay into it for the last 30 yrs. i'm glad it's there

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:50 pm

These kinds of posts are why I visit here less and less.
I may be something of a fatalist, but I will not surrender my country and run home crying.
Johnny, cowboy up and speak out against all the nonsense. Actively oppose it, speak your mind often and loudly. Gather your facts, call and write your legislators, join a gun club, teach as many kids as you can, but for Pete's sake don't just make a post like this and expect sympathy. If you're not willing to fight for her, keep the negativity off the forums, where it could be misunderstood as truth. There's a battle going on, to be sure, so why not spread the right ideas on the wrong forums, instead of the other way 'round?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:12 pm

tman wrote:wheter you agree or diagree with all the actions that fdr did. it gave the populace some hope. communisim was starting to gain a foothold in our country. people were disperate and grasping at straws. while this resulted in the country becoming a bit more socialist, it was better than the alternative of a communist revolution. i know that when i retire , i,ll need social security and medicare to suppliment my pension and savings. i had no choice,but to pay into it for the last 30 yrs. i'm glad it's there

Better Red than Dead?

Communisim DID gain a foothold in the country in the person of FDR.

The only thin FDR did was to (help) to (temporairly) prevent the rise of FACISIM in this country.

Remember, he and Joe were great buds, and Communisim was all the Rage everywhere but Germany, Italy & Japan.

We were very fortuante that FDR keeled over in office just about the time Uncle Joe started showing what "Communisim" really meant.

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:06 pm

fdr had no choice but to buddy up with stalin. russia beared a good portion in the defeat of germany. without out them as an allie, it would have cost the us dearly in lives and may have given germany time to developed the atomic bomb. mounted on the v2 rockets, england would have been destroyed. the u.s wouldn't have had a point to mount the d-day invasion from. ain't my opinion, its' history

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:25 pm

Given the way we are treated maybe we shoulda whupped the Japs & let the Germans have Europe. They sure didn't learn anything about freedom.

I might be the only one but I'm rather optimistic about the outcome of the Heller case beginning tomorrow. Could be the start of good things.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:28 pm

The Great One Said: The best is yet to come.......

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:31 pm

tman wrote:fdr had no choice but to buddy up with stalin. russia beared a good portion in the defeat of germany. without out them as an allie, it would have cost the us dearly in lives and may have given germany time to developed the atomic bomb. mounted on the v2 rockets, england would have been destroyed. the u.s wouldn't have had a point to mount the d-day invasion from. ain't my opinion, its' history

Oh yeah. He "had" to buddy up...

FDR's "Brain Trust" group was made up of people who went to Russia and talked with Stalin. They came back and sold FDR and everyone else, including the Unions, the idea that the USSR was the best thing since bottled beer. In 1938 they watched Stalin sign a non-aggression treaty with Hilter. Unthinkable they said! By then word was leaking out about the Stalinist regime's bad side. They couldn't believe it. They wouldn't believe it. It was well into the 1940's before they figured out what Stalin was doing and rejected it. Even then some of them stuck with the Communist dream, like Alger Hiss- FDR and Trumans trusted adviser.

No, the reason Germany was unable to get their heavy water experiments off the ground (and into V2s) had almost NOTHING to do with what Stalin did, and EVERYTHING to do with Hitler's own hubris and (thank god) incompetence.

If he had listened to Rommel he would be dead and we would all be speaking German.

But that's neither here nor there. FDR did more damage to the Constitution than almost anyone up until LBJ and the violent abuse of the commerce clause.

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:44 pm

fourtantatly hitler was nuts and didn't take the advise of the high commmand. the seniero you set up for fdr is the same as the one that faced gwb in the ivasion of iraq. if one is a criminal, surely the other one is too

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:00 pm

"Our nation has a disease and sadly there is no cure. Our politicans of this once great nation have put her on her death bed.

Lady Liberty will die."

I agree with this part but I think our politicans are simply a good reflection of most Americans. Greedy, self centered, and perverted are words that come to mind.

God, not NAFTA will finsih this mess off. Pretty soon I hope.

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:23 pm

unfournately, the politiacians reflect the view of the lobbists who and buy and pay for them. until the people stand up and demand and hold politicians accountable, and we make excuses for our political parties, blind loyality to the end, notrhing will change. i hold out the hope, when things get bad enough, the american people will rise up and do the right thing.

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:24 pm

Gentlemen:

Very good topic and thought provoking indeed. Thanks for sharing your perspectives on the subject. My Dad predicted what's going on today back in the mid 60's. He told me, "the Communists/Socialists will take over this country without having to fire a shot." Before he died, ten years ago, he expressed a concern over China! Look at all the money we(US) are now borrowing? etc. I feel we have a lot more to be concerned about than just terrorism? Any thoughts on how China will play a roll in all this?

Appreciate your knowledge.

Mike

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:29 pm

Leverdude wrote:Given the way we are treated maybe we shoulda whupped the Japs & let the Germans have Europe. They sure didn't learn anything about freedom.

I might be the only one but I'm rather optimistic about the outcome of the Heller case beginning tomorrow. Could be the start of good things.

Sure hope you're right.....

colo native · Post by **colo native** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:37 pm

give a listen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05hTmcznBlQ

engravertom · Post by **engravertom** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:39 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:...By 2010-2012 this once great nation will be dead.
That or the few Patriots that are left will start from scratch.

Regardless of the "government" the Constitution IS.

+1

I also agree with the thought that we should keep on doing all that we can, to stave off the evil, and to prepare for the opportunities that may come.

Tom

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:43 pm

china needs a strong u.s. economy. they are invested heavily in us, our demise would affect them finallacial. china still buys raw materials and steals our technology, so they will prop up our economy as long as it benifets THEM. if things don't change, the us will collapse from within. the old boogie men of communism, and islamistion won;t and CAN'T defeat us. the crocked politcians will do it from with in.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:09 pm

Jarhead, I thought it was Nikita that predicted that we would rot from the inside out? That they would bury us without taking a shot.

Unfortunately we as a nation began down a path years ago based on building a false economy, where the money changers would manipulate and control the production of 'real' goods. Once the pendalum swings out of balance to where money becomes more important than goods, the financial bottom falls out. Happened to Rome, happened to France, happened to Britain, we seem to forget what history tells us. We keep letting the power of the money get to far ahead of 'real' goods. Then it collapses and starts all over again. 'bout every 80 to a hundred years, then takes a generation to start up again, another to peak, then another to scarf off the profits, and then a decline. The only way to soften the peaks and valleys for the majority that get hurt (usually the ones in the middle) is put a ceiling on the peaks and scrape the excess into the valleys. It appears that Europe has finally figured that out, whereas we just keep touting that bigger carrot as a reward instead of cutting it up a little for the other end.

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:17 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:The beginning of the end was the FDR administration...

You're on the right track, but you really need to look about 70 years earlier if you want to get to the administration truly at the root of the problem.

You give FDR too much credit.

scott

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:20 pm

Old Time Hunter wrote:Jarhead, I thought it was Nikita that predicted that we would rot from the inside out? That they would bury us without taking a shot.

Unfortunately we as a nation began down a path years ago based on building a false economy, where the money changers would manipulate and control the production of 'real' goods. Once the pendalum swings out of balance to where money becomes more important than goods, the financial bottom falls out. Happened to Rome, happened to France, happened to Britain, we seem to forget what history tells us. We keep letting the power of the money get to far ahead of 'real' goods. Then it collapses and starts all over again. 'bout every 80 to a hundred years, then takes a generation to start up again, another to peak, then another to scarf off the profits, and then a decline. The only way to soften the peaks and valleys for the majority that get hurt (usually the ones in the middle) is put a ceiling on the peaks and scrape the excess into the valleys. It appears that Europe has finally figured that out, whereas we just keep touting that bigger carrot as a reward instead of cutting it up a little for the other end.

Yes, now that I think about it, My Dad, was quoting what Nikita predicted. That was over 40 years ago...my Dad made me attend a couple of "John Birch" meetings with him....I was just a kid, so never thought much of it at the time...

In addition, he related that the Higher Educational system was full of socialist teachers, and that they would educate America's youth to think in this manner....Hillary, Bill, Obama, etc., etc.,

engravertom · Post by **engravertom** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:25 pm

RSY wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:The beginning of the end was the FDR administration...
You're on the right track, but you really need to look about 70 years earlier if you want to get to the administration truly at the root of the problem.

You give FDR too much credit.

scott

If I'm doing th math right, I'm with you for sure.

Of course, you could go back to the Louisiana purchase, if you wanted to! Not to mention the creation of a National bank...

Tom

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:26 pm

Old Time Hunter wrote:Jarhead, I thought it was Nikita that predicted that we would rot from the inside out? That they would bury us without taking a shot.

Unfortunately we as a nation began down a path years ago based on building a false economy, where the money changers would manipulate and control the production of 'real' goods. Once the pendalum swings out of balance to where money becomes more important than goods, the financial bottom falls out. Happened to Rome, happened to France, happened to Britain, we seem to forget what history tells us. We keep letting the power of the money get to far ahead of 'real' goods. Then it collapses and starts all over again. 'bout every 80 to a hundred years, then takes a generation to start up again, another to peak, then another to scarf off the profits, and then a decline. The only way to soften the peaks and valleys for the majority that get hurt (usually the ones in the middle) is put a ceiling on the peaks and scrape the excess into the valleys. It appears that Europe has finally figured that out, whereas we just keep touting that bigger carrot as a reward instead of cutting it up a little for the other end.

Old Time Hunter,

Is this why the housing market has gotten so out of hand? Appreciate your knowledge....

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:19 pm

Old Ironsights wrote: IIWY I would go look at the work of Historians Strauss & Howe who have written a series of scholarly works on the cyclical nature of Generational Archetypes.

Generations
13th Gen ("Abort, Retry, Fail")
Millenials Rising
The 4th Turning

What is/are the 'works' - I might like to read them...?

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:40 am

I've often thought about what General Patton said at the end of WW2. He said we should continue into Russia and finish the war. We might of had 40 years of piece over the "cold war". Right now the U.S. kind of reminds me of what happened at the end of the Roman empire. They got lazy at home with self indulgence, their leaders were power mad, and tried to control the world by their rules. Sound familiar? In my mind Irac should be refered to as Vietnam ll.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:23 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote: IIWY I would go look at the work of Historians Strauss & Howe who have written a series of scholarly works on the cyclical nature of Generational Archetypes.

Generations
13th Gen ("Abort, Retry, Fail")
Millenials Rising
The 4th Turning
What is/are the 'works' - I might like to read them...?

Italicized...

http://www.amazon.com/Generations-Histo ... 493&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/13th-Gen-Abort-Re ... 580&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Millennials-Risin ... im_b_img_1

http://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning-Wi ... im_b_img_1

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:25 am

engravertom wrote:
RSY wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:The beginning of the end was the FDR administration...
You're on the right track, but you really need to look about 70 years earlier if you want to get to the administration truly at the root of the problem.

You give FDR too much credit.

scott
If I'm doing th math right, I'm with you for sure.

Of course, you could go back to the Louisiana purchase, if you wanted to! Not to mention the creation of a National bank...

Tom

Yah. I was only talking about the Socialisim... but you're right. The real problem goes back to Hamilton's insistence on a Mercantilist system rather than true Capitalisim...

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:37 am

I'm less afraid of communism than I am of a kind of modern day feudal system. The middle classes are a guage of a nation's liberty, and ours is continually getting bent over and . . . well, you know.

While I may get flamed for this, communism as a concept isn't entirely bad, and I would argue it has never actually existed in the modern world. The systems of the former soviet union and china are closer to fascism than anything else. Any time the government imposes its will with an iron fist, it is fascism and poo by any other name smells just as bad.

Small American communities of the 19th century were often very communist in practice.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:14 am

I ain't given up. But I am sick to death with talking to legislatures, politicans and the type. In my mind I'm switching from offense to defense. I've started to get rid of my levers and singleactions and picking up more semiautos. I'm laying in preperation materials for home fortifcations. Call me crazy if you want, I don't really care.

FWIW, the earliest that I can find that prayer was taken out of schools was 1962. If that doesn't explain everything I don't know what would.

Johnny

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:16 am

Jason_W wrote:I'm less afraid of communism than I am of a kind of modern day feudal system. The middle classes are a guage of a nation's liberty, and ours is continually getting bent over and . . . well, you know.

While I may get flamed for this, communism as a concept isn't entirely bad, and I would argue it has never actually existed in the modern world. The systems of the former soviet union and china are closer to fascism than anything else. Any time the government imposes its will with an iron fist, it is fascism and poo by any other name smells just as bad.

Small American communities of the 19th century were often very communist in practice.

Ah, but there is the difference. "In Practice" vs "In Force".

One is voluntary, the other is oppression.

You may also want to look at the history of the earliest settelers to the US. I can't remember specifically which Pilgrim group it was, but one of them "held everything in common" - attempting to recreate the Early Church.

They almost starved to death. It only got better when they decided to go (mostly) Capitalist and "let" people keep the fruits of their labor.

Communisim inevetibly leads to either economic failure or dictatorship (or both) because without a PROFIT MOTIVE people simply won't work to their potential. Period.

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:19 am

Old Ironsights wrote:
Jason_W wrote:I'm less afraid of communism than I am of a kind of modern day feudal system. The middle classes are a guage of a nation's liberty, and ours is continually getting bent over and . . . well, you know.

While I may get flamed for this, communism as a concept isn't entirely bad, and I would argue it has never actually existed in the modern world. The systems of the former soviet union and china are closer to fascism than anything else. Any time the government imposes its will with an iron fist, it is fascism and poo by any other name smells just as bad.

Small American communities of the 19th century were often very communist in practice.
Ah, but there is the difference. "In Practice" vs "In Force".

One is voluntary, the other is oppression.

You may also want to look at the history of the earliest settelers to the US. I can't remember specifically which Pilgrim group it was, but one of them "held everything in common" - attempting to recreate the Early Church.

They almost starved to death. It only got better when they decided to go (mostly) Capitalist and "let" people keep the fruits of their labor.

Communisim inevetibly leads to either economic failure or dictatorship (or both) because without a PROFIT MOTIVE people simply won't work to their potential. Period.

It certainly doesn't work in the western world. The only people for whom it is known to work are some African bush tribes.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:13 am

I ain't given up. But I am sick to death with talking to legislatures, politicans and the type. In my mind I'm switching from offense to defense. I've started to get rid of my levers and singleactions and picking up more semiautos. I'm laying in preperation materials for home fortifcations. Call me crazy if you want, I don't really care.

Far from crazy, you're one of the few who's concerned and thinking. You're on a smart path, but I'm reluctant to lose my S/A's or levers; they'd be the last to be "outlawed", should it get that far. My point was not to give up on playing offense. I'm at the point where people at church, work, and my extended family think I'm a gun-nut, a broken record, a single issue voter, a spokesman for the NRA, a redneck, a "paranoid Patriot", etc. I completely ignore the funny looks, the comments about my "toys", and I keep preaching the truth as I know it. The libs won't shut up, and neither will I. I've already converted a few new "Gun Nuts" who've taken an interest in the Bill of Rights, and our Constitution. One in particular was a rabid liberal anti gun democrat, who now has a fascination with magnum pistols. People have to be taught right from wrong, and un-brainwashed, and we're just the guys to do it.

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:27 am

homefront wrote:
I ain't given up. But I am sick to death with talking to legislatures, politicans and the type. In my mind I'm switching from offense to defense. I've started to get rid of my levers and singleactions and picking up more semiautos. I'm laying in preperation materials for home fortifcations. Call me crazy if you want, I don't really care.
Far from crazy, you're one of the few who's concerned and thinking. You're on a smart path, but I'm reluctant to lose my S/A's or levers; they'd be the last to be "outlawed", should it get that far. My point was not to give up on playing offense. I'm at the point where people at church, work, and my extended family think I'm a gun-nut, a broken record, a single issue voter, a spokesman for the NRA, a redneck, a "paranoid Patriot", etc. I completely ignore the funny looks, the comments about my "toys", and I keep preaching the truth as I know it. The libs won't shut up, and neither will I. I've already converted a few new "Gun Nuts" who've taken an interest in the Bill of Rights, and our Constitution. One in particular was a rabid liberal anti gun democrat, who now has a fascination with magnum pistols. People have to be taught right from wrong, and un-brainwashed, and we're just the guys to do it.

Don't sell your lever guns unless you need to do it to survive. The only assalt rifle I have is an M-14...that's all you need...just one. Unless you want more to enjoy,etc.... Also, have a 1911 45ACP...for serious times. "Adapt, Improvise, and Overcome!"

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:32 am

The only assalt rifle I have is an M-14...that's all you need...

How many SKS rifles will one of those get me?

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:11 pm

homefront wrote:
The only assalt rifle I have is an M-14...that's all you need...
How many SKS rifles will one of those get me?

Don't know...I was trained with one in the Corps...qualified Expert Rifleman with it...I can make head shots with it out to 500yrds, and can rock-n-roll up close. I have a detachable sniper scope on mine...It's a real "Sweet Heart."

$2000 invested....

OhhRA!

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:12 pm

M14
SKS
AK
AR
And even throw the Ruger Mini 14/30 in the mix for good homeland defense weapons.

My vote and money are going to the M14 Scout and maybe an AK/SKS or AR just for fun. Already have an XD9 that I carry. The levers will be backups.

Johnny

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:23 am

â€œAnd in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite" (Daniel 2:44)

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:10 am

I think what's happening is a natural progression of population growth, when there was less population, there was more freedom and more responsibility. With more people, more laws, restrictions, etc.

I think it would be a good thing to connect with our neighboring countries in a more effective way, better trade will lift all the economies and provide more opportunities.

I think things will get better, a border fence isn't what defines America.

jbm1968 · Post by **jbm1968** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:54 am

NO IT ISN'T and it only will if we quit.

Mich Hunter · Post by **Mich Hunter** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:57 am

+1 for Homefront.

I have my levers and SAA's but I also have my M1a, FAL, M4, AK's and so on for a reason.

Some people have called me a gun nut and so on. I just say I am turning on the switch to survival mode. When it comes crashing down, its gonna get bad. Too many people rely on the gov-ment to bail them out in natural or social disasters. Look at Katrina. Need I say more. My close friends are starting to catch on a little. Took my wife a couple years, but she has turned around also. Its not a matter or if, but when. $50 a month goes to ammo, gas cans, or anything else I can think I might need. I even have a nice remote place picked out in the Rockies.

My thoughts are as follows. It will be survival of the ARMED and PREPARED!! My family nor I will ever be sheep.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:33 am

We're still a full generation away from economic collapse...we are losing our 'unalienable rights' pretty quick.

Hey, IO you're saying that we need our form of economic system BECAUSE the profit reward is needed for motivation? Kind of a slavery is it not? Based on Kensian economic theory for every 'rich' entity, three must fail. Therefore is it safe to assume that for every new wealthy or affluent winner in our society, there might be three losers? Most likely the losers are the ones falling from middle class down to lower income. It amazes me that not a heck of alot of people see the correlation between a stronger 'middle class' and a stronger more equitable economy. It seems that the US economy was the strongest for the most at the end of the fifties and through most of the sixties. A period of when we had the greatest percentage of people in the 'middle class', we also had the highest union membership during that period...wonder if that had anything to do with it...hmmm. It was also a period that we put a man on the moon and made the best cars.....hmmm. Oh yea, a CEO's average compensation was generally 10 times that of the average worker at that business, what do you think it is now? Maybe a 100 times? I think we have reached the point of a society based on the "seven" sins, with greed being paramount.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:38 am

Old Time Hunter wrote:We're still a full generation away from economic collapse...we are losing our 'unalienable rights' pretty quick.

Hey, IO you're saying that we need our form of economic system BECAUSE the profit reward is needed for motivation?

Exactly the opposite. (but then since you said IO instead of OI you may have been reading my post in a mirror...

) Greed is (well, can be) Good. Without a Profit Motive, (most) people will NOT work to their potential.

That's why Welfare (of all types) is so pernicious. It removes the motive to work.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:53 am

Try and stay optimistic fellas. All is not lost. I remember the tales of what my Grandfather had to do during the Great Depression...people starving and no roof over their heads. When he lived in Ft. Smith, AR he would do a little work for a local pool hall so he could go inside and sleep at night under the pool tables. During the day, he would climb over the ropes which said "No Work" and sell his skills until someone would hire him on for a meager wage. With Faith in the Lord, hardwork and a little optimism/humor they overcame overwhelming odds. We can do the same if we have the same attitudes.

Keep up the good fight! Pray, talk to others, argue, stamp your feet, write your paper, VOTE and never get up. I love the Black Knight in Monty Python...after they've chopped your arms and legs off, start biting off knee caps!

PS: yes...also important to have a plan in case the worst hits.

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:56 am

It is simply unfolding according to Scripture.

The move toward the Amero and the Euro will soon give way to a One World Government. all politics will not be local any more, and the individual will be crushed under the wheels of "progress".

Satan, laughing spreads his wings.

You can bet that the sky will open up and for the self-righteous and nonbelieving, the passing of the Age will be very painful to say the least.

Did you actually think we could go on with no change and not face destiny as God has laid his plans? It will be realy hard to hold fast and allow God to work here; we might have to lose a LOT to gain something. Be prepared to scrabble out your sustenance brothers, and stay true.

It is better then have faith in the Lord than any nation or government, these things pass while the former has been and will always be.
He knits and knits the fabric of Creation together according too His plan even as we sleep and are born and then die. How to acclimate the human brain with all of its limitations to God's plan?

Faith.

Chin up, Satan will not prevail. It will be on earth as it is in Heaven one day.

Don't be afraid of losing your status as a carnal critter. We are not just these lumps of clay; most of what we are exists outside of the physical realm, and that is where most of the war has been and will continue to be waged.

Quick Karl · Post by **Quick Karl** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:13 am

The sky is falling, the sky is falling...

Bunch of women, I swear.

Next time you get the urge to complain about things look in the mirror and there you will find the cause for all your woes.

POLITICS - America is dying.

POLITICS - America is dying.

Re: POLITICS - America is dying.

Re: POLITICS - America is dying.

Re: POLITICS - America is dying.