Finally shot a 1911. So where did my cases go?

[earlmck]

Back a few years ago (1/06 is when I recorded a few loads in my load book) I backed into this 1911 style 45 Auto branded "Charles Daly". I'm a revolver guy; got no use for these new-fangled auto things. But I had 45 Colt dies so I loaded up some 45 auto from range pick-up brass using a 255 grain 45 Colt bullet just to see what I had. Didn't shoot for beans and jammed about every third round or so. Got stuck in the back of the gun safe to be used some day as trading stock.

Over the last few years I have developed a bumb right wing -- wore-out shoulder joint. Can't hold a pistol out with the right arm anymore. But I used to be a fair shot left-handed and am ready to go back to that, but the left thumb has a bunch of arthritis or something and isn't as cheerful about cocking hammers as it used to be. So I recall that I have this old piece of junk auto thing stuffed back in the corner somewhere. Back corner, bottom of a pile, and there it was.

Loaded up a variety of loads yesterday, took her out to the old gravel pit for a little function testing.

Several of my loads didn't work so good, but as luck would have it... the 190 grain Lee they call a "semi-wadcutter" but that has a somewhat rounded nose to it... when seated down to a cartridge length of 1.19"... well that works rather well. Function = 100%.

Here's what we had to work with:

45pistol.jpg

Bullets ready to be seated (using George Nonte's "Nonte shuffle" of course)

45bulletsreadytoseat.jpg

And coming out of the press...

45bulletseated.jpg

I didn't put up a target to try any groups (I just wanted to see if this thing even worked at all).
But I kept aiming at this tin can about 20 yards away and when I finished up the can was 35 or 40 yards away and looked like this:

45autotargetcan.jpg

5 grains of Green Dot shot quite a lot low; 5.5 was a little low; and 6 grains seemed pretty close to on. I think the thing is going to work and I can shoot a pistol again, just had to convert to a "lefty" . And lower my standards enough to use an auto .

But I gotta' say... I shot up 60 rounds standing at the tailgate of the pickup. There was a pile of cases about 6 feet away and kinda' back a ways. There was a smaller pile about 8 or 9 feet away but a bit forward. And somewhere out there are still 6 cases I couldn't find. Is that about the normal rate of attrition I have to accept to shoot one of these things? About a 10% case loss? (Us old revolver shooters are not used to coming back home with less cases than we started with, so this is a little shocking to the kid).

[Borregos]

It is amazing how many cases you miss first and second time looking
I get one of my grand kids looking for mine, he gets 'em all!!

[MrMurphy]

Out of spec handloads with a cheap import 1911. I'm surprised it ran at all.

You DO realize autos have been around in large numbers for 117 years now......right?

[jnyork]

Our range is covered and walls on three sides with a concrete floor, I STILL lose 4-5 out of 50, an absolute mystery to me, no way they can get out of that shelter.

[horsesoldier03]

I sold a S&W 586 to fund my Springfield 1911 MILSPEC, I love the pistol and will keep it but I sure miss that 586 and not having to chase brass! One day I hope to replace that 586.

[J35]

Good post

You were standing on the wrong side of your truck, other wise most of your cases would have landed in the bed

You will start to to pick the right location to shoot after you loose a few more cases so those cases can't hide from you. I have been known to spread a tarp once I got the landing zone located.

Once you and your gun get better acquainted if it don't hold a grudge and you both decide on the right load for plinking, most all of your cases will be with in spitting distance of each other.

If you are loading for bear expect to loose a few, but I would pick a different bullet

That 190 Lee was always a great 45 acp target bullet for me, my first 45 mold was the 190 Lee. Lee discontinued that mold and mine was about wore out,(21 years) so a while back I sent Tom at Accurate molds a bullet and had him make me a couple molds, his catalog # 45-190B is a exact copy of the Lee 190 and the # 45-210B has the same nose but I had him make the drive bands just a hair taller.

Good luck and enjoy the 1911 ride, it can be quite entertaining.

---J

[Grizz]

the gun moves the empties around as the ammo is used up. it seems the upcoming round in the mag pushes the empty as part of the ejection process, and the amount of spring is different on each succeeding shot. you can see this in very high speed video. it's a wonder any of them ever get out. anyway, mine strings the cases out, so do my XDs, part of the mystique I guess.

the gun was designed to shoot round nose ammo and that's a good starting place to determine if there is an inherent feed issue. I suspect the 255s were maybe a little long or a little fat in the ogive and not bouncing into the chamber consistently. that's right, the incoming round bounces into the chamber. genius, eh? it whacks the feed ramp, whacks the top of the chamber, and then gets whacked by the slide sliding into battery. That John B had a sense of humor.

I love shooting mine, something just right about it. Glad you're back to it, very satisfying results.

Grizz

[Griff]

But I gotta' say... I shot up 60 rounds standing at the tailgate of the pickup. There was a pile of cases about 6 feet away and kinda' back a ways. There was a smaller pile about 8 or 9 feet away but a bit forward. And somewhere out there are still 6 cases I couldn't find. Is that about the normal rate of attrition I have to accept to shoot one of these things? About a 10% case loss? (Us old revolver shooters are not used to coming back home with less cases than we started with, so this is a little shocking to the kid).

It's referred to as a range donation! You should always shoot at a station either next to (on your left) or just after another 1911 45ACP shooter leaves... that way, you're more than likely to find what he can't... you might get lucky and break even, or... if he doesn't reload... with quite a number of "extra"!

It's either that, or you're "limp-wristing" it... in which case the cases just fly around willy-nilly.

[wolfdog]

Its the brass fairy, cousin to the sock fairy that lives in the laundry room.

[Nath]

Brilliant write up

I have been known to walk back miles to just try and find that one case OCD I think they calls it

Glad for yer.

Nath.

Oh and yeah and I'm using around those amounts of Gdot in my 357 legacy! I likes Gdot.....are your loads just over half case cap'?

N.

[Pitchy]

Neat story and glad your enjoying the other side of the coin, I give up looking for brass in the grass after a while and head up there with the metal detector and find most of it.

[spaceman spiff]

Our range is covered and walls on three sides with a concrete floor, I STILL lose 4-5 out of 50, an absolute mystery to me, no way they can get out of that shelter.

Ever lose a sock in the dryer? I suspect that your brass is going to a similar place.......

spaceman

[M. M. Wright]

Glad to hear you can shoot the 1911 Earl. I suppose that 10% loss of brass is about right. I used to shoot IPSC and shot over 500 rounds per week with similar loss. Back then you could buy once fired military brass that folks had bought from the government so it was cheap. I load the Hensley and Gibbs no. 68 200 grain semi-wadcutter over 5.5 grains of WW 231. Easily makes major. Good magazines, (Wilson-Rogers) and an 18 lb. spring will greatly help your "made in the Phillipines" 1911. I have one of the Charles Dalys with a 4 inch barrel. Came with a very weak recoil spring that I had to replace. I think it's a good idea to put in a "shock buff" too. Sorta eases the sharp sting at the end when the recoiling slide hits the frame and is supposed to stop frames from cracking.

For social work I like the 185 grain Hornady XTP over the same 5.5 of 231.

You can polish the feed ramp and the breech face too. I'm pretty sure your port is already lowered and dimpled as this is usual for this manufacturer. Helps to keep the brass from being dented.

[pwl44m]

Our range is covered and walls on three sides with a concrete floor, I STILL lose 4-5 out of 50, an absolute mystery to me, no way they can get out of that shelter.

"Honey would You quit putting those empty bullets in Your shirt pocket" !!
Perry

[stretch]

Lost brass is directly proportional to it's cost and/or scarcity!

For instance, I frequently come back from our range with more 9mm than I started with,
but I don't think I've ever returned with more 10mm than I started with.

I think this is one of those universal laws of the universe.....


-Stretch

[ollogger]

Earl
You sure shot the heck outta that can!!!!
so that's a good thing you can adapt that well & keep shooting
Ive got 2 self chuckers & the hardest part IS finding the brass & loading the dang things
therefor I don't shoot them much!


ollogger

[earlmck]

I think it's a good idea to put in a "shock buff" too. Sorta eases the sharp sting at the end when the recoiling slide hits the frame and is supposed to stop frames from cracking.

Thanks for the fine thoughts and advice, fellows: I knew we had lots of 1911 shooters from past posts, just hadn't thought I'd get to join in. But this thing seems like it is going to shoot pretty decent and is real pleasant to shoot with the little Lee bullet. I'll get one of those shot buffers and maybe a stouter recoil spring, M.M. I broke out the Midway catalog and browsed through -- sure lots of stuff available for a 1911, isn't there?

You were standing on the wrong side of your truck, other wise most of your cases would have landed in the bed

And I'll park the pickup the other way next time, j. I'll bet that helps a lot: now why didn't I think of that?

Lost brass is directly proportional to it's cost and/or scarcity!

If it's not a "Universal Law of the Universe", stretch, I'll bet it is at least one of Murphy's top 20.

You sure shot the heck outta that can!!!!

It looks more impressive than it really was, although toward the end of the run I got to connecting fairly regular. I always shot one-handed and practiced occasionally left-handed for many years, but got to doing the two-handed thing when I went to 44 mag in the Redhawk. So I hadn't shot left handed in over 20 years -- gonna' take a leetle practice!

Back in the "good old days" in Nevada I would use the nice Carson City range on at least a weekly basis and nearly always picked up some good brass, with 45 auto being almost as common as 9mm. I gave away many hundreds to friends who had 45's, just kept a few hundred for myself from about my last year there. So this stuff I am loosing isn't anything I paid $ for, but I might have to pay for any new stuff I need: haven't picked up much 45 auto (or much of anything else) since I moved back to Oregon.

And thinking of Carson City and the great range there, has anyone heard from Hillbilly since he moved to Carson City last year?

[3leggedturtle]

Earl; I am very "AR" abut my brass. I Just keep in mind, its just one of those its the price you pay for enjoying a legend. My 9mm I really don't care about because brass is still easily found at the range. My 45ACP Contender carbine I have its own brass for, I lost one once when I tossed it after shooting the steel cased wolf ammo. Spent 20 minutes looking for it, never did find it..

[Charles]

Q. Where did your cases go?

A. Your cases went out the ejection port of your pistol.

I am sorry, I really can't help myself, for I am so literal about these things.

[1894c]

That "Charles Daly" is a pretty good import...there are a couple of simple things you can do to help the 1911 function better (polish feed ramp). when I use to shoot 1911's I shot allot of hardball ammo, worked well, plus I used it for SD... :)

[Sixgun]

Yea Earl, you and I are old school. My revolver to auto ratio is about 25-1.

As my buddies from South Philly say, Don't worry 'bout it!

I seldom pick up 45's and 9's anymore unless they are in my face.----6

[Sixgun]

Yea Earl, you and I are old school. My revolver to auto ratio is about 25-1.

As my buddies from South Philly say, Don't worry 'bout it!

I seldom pick up 45's and 9's anymore unless they are in my face.----6

[Bill in Oregon]

Earl, glad you are getting old slabsides back in harness. Was your Charles Daly made in the Philippines? Hear pretty good things about them. Has the ejection port been lowered, or are you also getting some creased case mouths? I agree that .45s are case hiders. I could lose .45 brass firing inside a phone booth.

[earlmck]

Earl, glad you are getting old slabsides back in harness. Was your Charles Daly made in the Philippines? Hear pretty good things about them. Has the ejection port been lowered, or are you also getting some creased case mouths? I agree that .45s are case hiders. I could lose .45 brass firing inside a phone booth.

Yes, made in Philippines, and seems pretty nice to me but I haven't been around any of these things so have nothing to compare to. Just always hung out with revolver shooters, except a couple shooting buddies had 9mm's they played with a little.

No dents in the case mouths, so must be working OK there. And yes, there is something about that fat, short case that when it is sitting in the gravel (I was utilizing "ye olde gravel pit") with the case mouth pointed up, those things are awful close to invisible.

Yea Earl, you and I are old school. My revolver to auto ratio is about 25-1.

I was more like 100 - 0 for all my life, but have virtually stopped shooting pistol the last couple years because it just hurts. Got to thinking "sheeesh! that's dumb! Just get to using that old left hand again". Thus my adventure with this new-fangled thing. (Sorry MrMurphy )

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'm going to like this new baby. Got me a recoil spring and recoil buffer ordered from Midway today -- along with a few boxes of those Hornady 35 Cal bullets on sale somebody pointed us toward last week. Once again Midway dinged me pretty hard on shipping, but it's just a few more of those old paper dollars that I am grateful are still purchasing stuff...

[Ben_Rumson]

Go double action with the revolvers

[3leggedturtle]

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'm going to like this new baby. Got me a recoil spring and recoil buffer ordered from Midway today -- along with a few boxes of those Hornady 35 Cal bullets on sale somebody pointed us toward last week....

Earl did you happen to read the reviews at Midway. One guy was complaining they varied by +/- .3 grs. But he said they should shoot good enough for normal shots in the woods.