Question for Joe Riekers: 44 bullets "stick" in hogs?

[C. Cash]

Joe....guide Brian Barnes seemed a little concerned that we were using a 44 Mag/Special on his hogs, and reported seeing a good number of bullets stick in the gristle plate in this caliber, and likes the 35's better. I know he's seen tons shot so there must be something to his observation. Can you add anything to this? Were the bullets of a certain type/velocity that are a problem(ie ones that rapidly expand)? Our 265 grain Ranch Dog, loaded to not much above 44 special handgun velocity went through the gristle plate on a mature boar, quartered through him slighty and came out the other side. He died quicker than any of the hogs shot that day.

[Mike Rintoul]

Joe and Brian have several hundred observations between them. I have been part and privy to some of them. I have supplied various factory bullets for testing and therefore was the recipient of the reported outcomes. The two variables that seem to most effect performance is 1) size of the hog, and 2) velocity of the bullet. Sure, bullet design and weight as well as shot placement have some effect as does the impact velocity due to range. However, in the several hundred reports that contain nearly 75 .44 bullets these latter factors seem less influential than the former. The most information came from 44 Special and 44 Magnum caliber firearms but some were from muzzleloaders using sabotted .429-.430 bullets and some were 444 Marlin (et al) handloaded to a known velocity. The info is expressed in exits:

Pistol velocity = 800 fps to 1200 fps (quite a range).

Rifle velocity = 1250 fps to 2000 fps (an even bigger range!).

Hornady XTP 240 gr Pistol 5:10 Rifle 8:10
Hornady XTP 300 gr Pistol 8:10 Rifle 9:10
Hornady FTX 225 gr Pistol 1:4 Rifle 1:5
Nosler .429 240 gr Pistol 0:2 Rifle 5:5
Nosler .429 200 gr Pistol 0:1 Rifle No Data
Hornady IL 265 gr Pistol No Data Rifle 2:2
Speer Deep Curl 270 gr Pistol 1:1 Rifle 3:3
Barnes XPB 225 gr Pistol 0:1 Rifle No Data
Cast Performance 260 gr lead Pistol No Data Rifle 2:2
Swift A Frame 300 gr Pistol 1:2 Rifle 0:1
Remington 240gr JHP Pistol 0:3 Rifle 2:5
Grizzly Extreme 225 gr Pistol 0:4 Rifle No Data

What does this mean? Overall, the 44 bullets whether from pistol or rifle penetrate and exit hogs more than half the time. How many of the bullets that didn't exit were non-lethal? I don't know but I doubt many. I think this reflects the common sense approach of loading the bullet to a velocity range in which it was design to perform within and shot placement. I am not sure what the guide was worried about. A lot of people of different experience levels show up at commercial hunting outfits. The hunting of hogs is commonly portrayed in magazines and TV with handguns and other less common methods so this is an opportunity for that less experienced person to try his/her hand at gaining just such experience. I think statistically you will find less accuracy, more over-the-counter common ammo and less thought about the type of ammo with a majority of these hunters. That leads to a lot of reservation on the part of the guide that does not know you, your ability or your equipment. You know the cliche, "You don't worry about the old guy with the beat up rifle, you worry about the guy with the brand new rifle". That probably translates in a slightly different way to what these guides see on the hog hunts.

Joe - where are you?

[C. Cash]

Mike...thank you for the info! I have to stare and scratch my head before it all comes together and sinks in and will be looking at this. What Do the ratio's mean? Yeah, if I saw me for the first time I would be concerned! Especially after two hours of sleep and no coffee. My 12 year old was shooting the 44 special in the 336 Texan. My 356 Winchester with the Beartooth 210 Gr. LFNGC did about as well as his and left a more dramatic blood trail out both sides. I wish I could have recovered either bullets but they were gone.
Since I can't miss an opportunity to brag on me boy here is his. This is the off side where the bullet came out so the hole is farther back.

[2ndovc]

Brian asks some very blunt questions.

During my first trip down to Joe and Brian's place, we were walking out to the stands when he (Brian) asked me while looking at my 1886,
"Can you hit a target over 50 yards?" I thought he was joking and sputtered "are you serious?"
The fella next to me grabbed my arm and says " He's not joking." I said "yes sir and well beyond that".

I'm sure he sees a lot of Newbies down there and is just being careful. There's no
shortage of goofballs in the woods!

Here's the first one with my .33WCF
Left a blood trail that Ray Charles could follow!



jb

[piller]

It seems that there is a lot of variation in penetration based on the bullet and the velocity. I find these topics to be very informative.

[Ji in Hawaii]

This boar from '98 was 300 pounds shot at 125 yards using a Williams 5D peep sight with my 1894 Marlin 44 magnum, 240 grain Sierra JSP in front of 24 grains of H110, one shot instant drop. The bullet was recovered just under the skin on the far side. Shot another about 10 seconds later that was 175 pounds also one shot drop as it charged towards me and my son. 37 years same story on all my pigs with my 44 mag Marlin, all one shot drops. My favorite pig gun.

[C. Cash]

Nice pigs/Levers fellas! Thanks for sharing the experiences. Brian is very blunt....and funny at the same time. You can tell he's seen it all.

[Griff]

Nice pigs/Levers fellas! Thanks for sharing the experiences.

+1

[66GTO]

44 mag Marlin, all one shot drops. My favorite pig gun.

+1, and also a great woods gun for whitetail deer, both with Hornady XTP 240 gr. from the 1894. Everything I've shot has dropped in their tracks. If a hog is not dropping with a hot .44 Mag from a rifle the problem is shot placement, not the round, at least at the ranges that I see hogs. Now granted, I haven't shot any 300 pounders.

[C. Cash]

I could see how a rapidly expanding "44" bullet driven at a mild velocity could get stopped on the gristle plate. Though there is not much cast info in Mike's data.....one could infer that from it and the hunting experiences of others, that a heavy cast bullet of proper hardness is not going to pose a problem.