Win 1894 lever wont open after shooting 3 rounds

[arpeggio]

Gentleman,
I have a Win. 1894 25-35 pre-64 built in 1919. I have just replaced my bolt and it cycles a magazine fine when not firing the rounds. However, after shooting 3 rounds, the lever will not open to eject the 3rd round. If I wait a few minutes, I can muscle the lever down to eject it but it should not be that difficult to open the lever. The chamber was just polished by a reputable gunsmith also.
Anyone have any ideas? Someone mentioned that I may not have enough head space. but like I said, it operates smoothly until I fire 3 rounds.
Thanks....Don

[Pete44ru]

.

Welcome, Don - IMO, something's too tight, since the issue apparently arises only after thing heat up/expand.

The replacement locking bolt is most likely too thick, meant for correcting excessive headspace, and needs some additional attention/fitting.



.

[arpeggio]

Thank you for your reply!
I was thinking around the same lines!
Someone told me how to check head space roughly by loading a new brass into the chamber with a spent primer pushed into the new brass just so it wont fall out. Then closing the lever hard and then ejecting the brass. Measuring the distance from the inside lip of the brass to the top of the primer that should be not full seated will give you the rough head space measurement.
When I do this, my primer is fully seated in the brass, which means the bolt is completely against the cartridge when lever is locked. Do you think this would cause it to tighten it brass in the chamber?
Thanks Pete44

[pwl44m]

Welcome to Leverguns analytical section ! If We/They caint fix it, junk it. Does it get progressively worse or just after the 3rd round ?
Perry

[arpeggio]

Well...Humm, I only did 3 rounds but perhaps the 2nd round was a little harder than the first!

[Chuck 100 yd]

If you have a caliper,measure the rims of the cartridges that you fired. There may be a big difference in rim thickness and the third one just happens to be the thickest one. I would be having that head space checked with the proper gauge. It sounds like your rifle is under tolerance with it`s new bolt and a thinner locking bolt is needed. The only way to tell FOR SURE is with a set of head space gauges. Good luck!

[arpeggio]

Thanks Chuck! I never thought that may be a problem. I'll measure them. I was firing new old stock Winchester Super X from the 70's, so the box said. Heck someone may have stuck reloads in the box for all I know! At least the nostalgic box is worth keeping.
Ya the rim on the 25-35 round is .046" thick and the bolt butts right up against it. Minimum head space is supposed to .063. The bolt closes without difficulty so I assumed it was ok.
I really need an accurate check. I will do that thanks!

[AJMD429]

1. Should have gotten a Marlin. . .



2. Seriously, though. . . it doesn't make sense as far as the 'timing' of the symptoms, but you might just try backing out or taking out the screw that covers the pin that joins the lever to the bolt; they can bind the bolt and really make things tough. It seems odd that it would have the 'timing' of your gun's symptoms, but is a very EASY thing to check and if it is the cause, is also a very easy fix.

[Griff]

and Welcome to THE Forum. It sure sounds like the headspace is too tight.

[Sixgun]

3 rounds is not enough heat to make the bolt press that hard on the case.

You did not state what kind of ammo you were using. 21 gr. of IMR 4198 with a 117 gr. Hornady will lock up the gun every shot. Top loads in the 25-35 with a fast burning powder is a no- no.---6

[Rusty]

Welcome to the forum.

[BenT]

I am thinking hot loads also. The 25-35 case is very tapered and flows back to put pressure on the bolt with hot loads. But I would still check head space with first.

[arpeggio]

Thank you all for the welcomes and the awesome advice!
The ammo I was shooting was a box of Winchester Super X 117 gr. in a yellow box from around the 70's I recently bought at a gun show. The rounds looked in great shape but I guess you never really know what they could be. At least I have a nice nostalgic box
The suggestion about the pin from the lever to the bolt might be an issue the more I think about how the assembly went. The videos I watched all showed it just dropping in where I had to lightly tap mine in with a drift punch. Will be checking that and the head space for sure!
Thank you all again!

[Griff]

Thank you all for the welcomes and the awesome advice!
The ammo I was shooting was a box of Winchester Super X 117 gr. in a yellow box from around the 70's I recently bought at a gun show. The rounds looked in great shape but I guess you never really know what they could be. At least I have a nice nostalgic box
The suggestion about the pin from the lever to the bolt might be an issue the more I think about how the assembly went. The videos I watched all showed it just dropping in where I had to lightly tap mine in with a drift punch. Will be checking that and the head space for sure!
Thank you all again!

I've had to tap every one I've done with a punch. And when installing, I tend to drift it until I feel it bottom out on the right side of the receiver. It NEEDS to stay in place. The screw stop keeps it from walking out to the left where, without the screw stop it will eventually work it's way into the space the screw stop is supposed to be. And that will lock it up tighter'n a drum. Check the length of the screw stop with the action open... it should be "almost" or just flush with the inside of the left guide.

[arpeggio]

Thanks Griff, that will be the first thing I check when I get home tonight.
I'll let you know what I find!
I may have done exactly what you said!

[Hagler]

arpeggio,

Take a look at Junior's tutorial:

http://www.castbullet.com/misc/tdown.htm









Shawn

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Gentleman,
I have a Win. 1894 25-35 pre-64 built in 1919. I have just replaced my bolt and it cycles a magazine fine when not firing the rounds. However, after shooting 3 rounds, the lever will not open to eject the 3rd round. If I wait a few minutes, I can muscle the lever down to eject it but it should not be that difficult to open the lever. The chamber was just polished by a reputable gunsmith also.
Anyone have any ideas? Someone mentioned that I may not have enough head space. but like I said, it operates smoothly until I fire 3 rounds.
Thanks....Don

Hi Don,
welcome to the fire.
Lots of good advice above. However, if you go through all those ideas and it is still sticking I have an idea of what is causing it. I have had two pre-WWI 94's and one 86 sent to me that did the same thing. I believe they were too soft. The problem with many firearms before WWI is the heat treating was suspect. The most well-known is the 03 Springfield’s. they are just not save with modern 30-06 ammo. I believe other guns of the era have the same problem. I don’t know what become of the three 94’s but the owner had me send his 86 out for color-case hardening and it seemed to cure the problem.

[arpeggio]

Nate I have a co-worker that is always telling me he uses cowboy loads in his older rifles as the steel was not as good as today's alloys.
Your post pretty much confirms his beliefs! If all else fails, this has to be the culprit!
Thanks for your experience and insight!

[1886]

Welcome. Any time I have experienced sticky extraction it was due to pressure. I am not familiar with .25-35 load data. Load data is easy enough to research. I am familiar with case design and I can tell you that the .25-35 like the .348 Win case design can and does function like a wedge in the rifle's chamber when pressure does start to climb. It is no mean feat to experience what I call premature sticky extraction long before pressures become "excessive". This may or may not be what you experienced. This is part of the reason why so called improved cartridges came to be. Hope this helps, 1886.

[PriseDeFer]

The bolt of an M94 is a non-fitted part?

[Griff]

The bolt of an M94 is a non-fitted part?

The locking lug is.

[arpeggio]

Gentlemen thank you for your knowledgeable information.
Here is what I did to solve the issue after checking the entire gun for functionality!
I loaded my rounds with IMR Train Boss powder using their instructions on their web site for Trail Boss powder. They had no load data for the 25-35 so I followed their instructions for filling the case up to where the neck taper stops making sure the powder didn't compress and used a 117 gr jacketed bullet. Brass was about 80% full of powder. Shot 50 rounds and not one got stuck in the chamber!!
The web site site states you can fill ANY cartridge to just below the seated bullet and it will make a good low power load. Great powder! Wouldn't shoot a deer with the load but a squirell or maybe even a coyote at 100 yards would be in reason
Long story short, store bought rounds are too hot for early 1898's

[pwl44m]

Quote,Long story short, store bought rounds are too hot for early 1898's.
Or like U said in the beginning, those rounds could have been reloads ! Glad U got it running.
Perry