OT - Not a lever, but what do you get for under $100 anymore

arjunky · Post by **arjunky** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:46 pm

Not like I needed another project, but should fit on the floor of my car pretty well.

Hopefully I can figure out the feeding issue.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... m=95555810

Byron

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:54 pm

Oh thats cool. As you said hopefully you can get the feeding issue sorted out. That would make a heck of a truck gun.

Kilroy6644 · Post by **Kilroy6644** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:02 am

I just tried putting a couple of .30-30 rounds in the magazine of one of my Mosins, and it wouldn't hold them. 7.62x54R is a bigger round, and the .30-30s just weren't fat enough. I suppose you could try fiddling with the interrupter, but I don't know if there's enough material there to make it work.

arjunky · Post by **arjunky** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:09 am

Kilroy6644 wrote:I just tried putting a couple of .30-30 rounds in the magazine of one of my Mosins, and it wouldn't hold them. 7.62x54R is a bigger round, and the .30-30s just weren't fat enough. I suppose you could try fiddling with the interrupter, but I'd be leery of that, because I think you'd end up with ejection problems.

Thanks Kilroy,
No idea what the mag looks like or how it functions, but was hoping there is a way to shim it somehow.

Byron

Kilroy6644 · Post by **Kilroy6644** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:37 am

arjunky wrote:
Kilroy6644 wrote:Thanks Kilroy,
No idea what the mag looks like or how it functions, but was hoping there is a way to shim it somehow.

Byron

Looking at it again, I don't think you'd have ejection problems unless you really screwed up (I edited my previous post to reflect that).

It's a single stack magazine, but there are no lips of any kind to hold the rounds in. That's accomplished by the interrupter, which is just a little tab on the bottom of the ejector spring that projects into the magazine. It's really an ingenious little thing. It holds the rounds in the magazine, and it also seperates the round about to be fed from the rest of the magazine. So even if you layer the rims incorrectly, the rifle will still feed.

Back to your rifle, you might be able to bend the interrupter so that it projects into the magazine more, but I don't know if it would stick out far enough. It might. That's the only thing I can think of.

http://7.62x54r.net/

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:52 am

Kilroy6644 wrote: I suppose you could try fiddling with the interrupter...

DON'T FIDDLE WITH THE INTERRUPTER!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=2

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:22 am

That's going to be a major engineering job. Along with the fact that the .30-30 is a substantially smaller round overall, the rim of the 7.62x54R is significantly larger than the .30-30's. Pity he didn't leave it alone -- the 7.62x54R is a heckuva round.

WCF3030 · Post by **WCF3030** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:31 am

Interesting rifle!!
I look foward to the range report.
Good luck with the feeding issue.

hornetguy · Post by **hornetguy** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:01 am

I know all the usual reasons for a conversion... along with the final one ...."because I WANTED to"....

This one I just don't get.

The original cartridge is slightly better than the 308, and you can buy soft point hunting ammo for it as cheap as, or cheaper than 30-30 stuff, and it WORKS as is...

The logic, or even the reasoning just escape me on this one.

I pulled the bayonet off mine, and it will shoot 1" groups with sellier and bellot soft point ammo at 50yds with the original open sights and my over 50 eyesight. The only thing I'm going to do to mine is either replace the 2X4, I mean, the STOCK, with something better, or modify the one that's on it with a recoil pad. They KICK.

OD* · Post by OD* » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:54 am

arjunky wrote:Not like I needed another project, but should fit on the floor of my car pretty well.

Hopefully I can figure out the feeding issue.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... m=95555810

Byron

Should be a lot of fun.

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:58 am

Yes, once again at a local gun store last week I was tempted by a rack of M-N carbines marked at $99. A case of ammo was marked a $79 for 440 rounds. The carbines themselves were some of the nicest I've seen, apparently unfired. I don't know where they keep digging this stuff up. In the end I left the store empty handed in order to think about it. I think after the new wore off I would have been asking myself, " now, why did I buy this?". I did see that Shotgun News had a recent series on sporterizing these things. I would like a project gun but the project list is too long now.

arjunky · Post by **arjunky** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:28 am

hornetguy wrote:I know all the usual reasons for a conversion... along with the final one ...."because I WANTED to"....

This one I just don't get.

The original cartridge is slightly better than the 308, and you can buy soft point hunting ammo for it as cheap as, or cheaper than 30-30 stuff, and it WORKS as is...

The logic, or even the reasoning just escape me on this one.

I pulled the bayonet off mine, and it will shoot 1" groups with sellier and bellot soft point ammo at 50yds with the original open sights and my over 50 eyesight. The only thing I'm going to do to mine is either replace the 2X4, I mean, the STOCK, with something better, or modify the one that's on it with a recoil pad. They KICK.

I'll admit I don't get it either, but I have an Ariska someone turned into a custom stocked 38/55 also and I enjoy that one too for the pricely sum of $180.

Tried to post a pic, but onfinite.com is down.
Their finally up again.

Byron

Rod WMG · Post by **Rod WMG** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:03 pm

Well, I bought a laminated stock Mosin a few years back for cheap. I wasn't prepared to like it, but I really do.

It's accurate, has a decent trigger pull, and handy. I'm impressed with the caliber and cartridge. The safety is a bear to engage for someone who's as weak as I am these days, but is simplicity itself.

I don't really want another, but I'm sure proud of this one.

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:14 pm

nemhed wrote: I don't know where they keep digging this stuff up.

AFter WW2 and into the early '70s, the USSR gathered up and refurbished millions of 91/30 rifles and M44 carbines in an arsenal in the Ukraine, and stored them in salt mines "just in case" they were invaded. Lord knows how many are still there, but they're still plentiful, cheap, and darned fine shooters.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:12 pm

They are cute LOOKIN little rifles but lookin is where cute ends. I shot one at the range one day and it kicked like a POed mule. If it were downloaded to something like .30-40 levels it would be a nice piece.

For help with the safety and other things take a look on Junior's pages at castbullet.com.

You could also do as Capstick used to instruct his clients to do. After the bolt has picked up a loaded round from the magazine, with the rifle pointed in a safe direction pull the trigger while the bolt handle is still up. Slowly rotate the bolt handle to the battery position. When you are ready to shoot all you do is raise the bolt handle and lower it back down which cocks the rifle. You might also want to practice this with an empty rifle before trying it with a live round.

morgan in nm · Post by **morgan in nm** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:34 pm

Pisgah wrote:That's going to be a major engineering job. Along with the fact that the .30-30 is a substantially smaller round overall, the rim of the 7.62x54R is significantly larger than the .30-30's. Pity he didn't leave it alone -- the 7.62x54R is a heckuva round.

+1

Bob Hatfield · Post by **Bob Hatfield** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:41 pm

What I'd like to see is a 45-70 Mosin Nagant without the magazine. Looks like it would work just fine......................Bob

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:50 pm

I have a Russian 1891 rifle but only because it was given to me... I suppose if that is all you have then it is all you need but, dang, I'd sure like something better!

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:21 pm

Rusty wrote: You could also do as Capstick used to instruct his clients to do. After the bolt has picked up a loaded round from the magazine, with the rifle pointed in a safe direction pull the trigger while the bolt handle is still up. Slowly rotate the bolt handle to the battery position. When you are ready to shoot all you do is raise the bolt handle and lower it back down which cocks the rifle. You might also want to practice this with an empty rifle before trying it with a live round.

Bad idea, at least with the Mosin, as it leaves the firing pin resting directly on the primer.

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:27 pm

Hobie wrote:I have a Russian 1891 rifle but only because it was given to me... I suppose if that is all you have then it is all you need but, dang, I'd sure like something better!

For its intended purpose, there is nothing better. A friend of mine puts it best when he says it is a repeating rifle "designed to be used and maintained by illiterate peasants, with nothing but rocks for tools." It is, IMO, a remarkably sophisticated, rugged, and practical design, but one that takes a bit of getting used to. There are some "tricks" to it. For instance, the easiest way to use the safety is to rest the butt in the crook of the elbow while pulling back and turning the cocking piece. Once you learn the technique, it's a piece of cake.

The accuracy of these rifles, particularly the Finnish-rebarreled models, can be quite uncanny.

oldgerboy · Post by **oldgerboy** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:35 pm

This might sound strange but I've seen it and it worked. It was a mauser converted to .30-30. The guy fitted a magazine from a 340 Savage rifle inside the magazine of the mauser with the Savage mag release. The void around the mag was filled with metal or something and epoxy. It worked. Maybe that idea can be adapted to your problem.

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:00 pm

That also works with an SMLE mag. I'm still trying to come up with a magazine mod that will allow ten rounds of 30-30 to be loaded (and stay in) but it's not proving easy.

Don't really have a good reason for doing it but a bolt .30-30 has a certain appeal as does the LE action....

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:10 pm

The Mosins are interesting rifles, but I can't begin to understand why anyone would bother to rebarrel one, particulary in 30-30.
If you had way too much time on your hands and the means to do the work yourself, the 30-40 Krag or the 7.62x53mm Finnish cartridge would be much better choices. The 7.62x53mm Finn is simply the Russian cartridge using a .308 bullet (in a .308 barrel.)

The quality of the Mosins runs the gamut from incredebly crude wartime manufacture Russian rifles, to the Polish carbines that were finished and fitted as nicely as any modern sporting rifle.
I have a "B" barreled Finn with a .308 bore that shoots very well with either cast or jacketed bullets.
Boxer primed brass is now widely available so there is probably no compelling reason to change caliber.

I had heard so much about the brutal recoil of the Mosin carbines that I had serious reservations about firing my M38 carbine. It turns out that it is a fairly substtantial gun, even with the short barrel, and the light ball (~148gr. bullet) was not much of a challenge when fired offhand. I am sure that the heavy ball (~200gr bullet) would be less pleasant. Like any other centerfire caliber, the 7.62 can be easily loaded to suit casual plinking or serious hunting.

The most serious flaw of all of the Mosins is the split receiver bridge, which makes proper mounting of a standard telescope or receiver sight nearly impossible. The alternative mounting of a scope very high to clear the bolt handle root or forward of the front receiver ring have never been of any interest to me.

Jack

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:33 pm

Pisgah wrote:
Hobie wrote:I have a Russian 1891 rifle but only because it was given to me... I suppose if that is all you have then it is all you need but, dang, I'd sure like something better!
For its intended purpose, there is nothing better. A friend of mine puts it best when he says it is a repeating rifle "designed to be used and maintained by illiterate peasants, with nothing but rocks for tools." It is, IMO, a remarkably sophisticated, rugged, and practical design, but one that takes a bit of getting used to. There are some "tricks" to it. For instance, the easiest way to use the safety is to rest the butt in the crook of the elbow while pulling back and turning the cocking piece. Once you learn the technique, it's a piece of cake.

The accuracy of these rifles, particularly the Finnish-rebarreled models, can be quite uncanny.

I don't think the safety, or the cartridge, or the sights are the worst thing about it. One way or another, all can be managed. But, if I have better, that's what I'll use.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:35 pm

I'll put it into the category of "Why?" but I have to admit I find the idea intriguing.

I've owned several MN variations but my favorite and the only one that won't be on the block when it comes time to find something for trading fodder is my rough-as-a-cob 1945 production M44. It's one of my "If this thing could only talk!" rifles along with 2 pre-WWI SMLE No1 MKIIIs and an 1892 production Marlin 1889 in .38WCF.

The only "modern" rifle I've fired that is more painful is a French MAS 36 in 7.5 French. 2 mags worth of ammo and I'd already decided it needed to move on.

Even with a PAST pad the M44 is rough with surplus ammo. When I get to feeling "uppity" after a day of rimfires and lighter centerfires I break out the M44 for a reality check.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:53 pm

I have a M44 that has the bayonet still on it. All I can say is that I love the rifle. I hear many complain of the sights, however I take mine to the river and shoot gar and turtles quite easily with the iron sights at distances around 50 yds. Ammo is sometimes hard to find but can be quite cheap. It makes one hell of a gun to throw in a truck or haul on your 4 wheeler!

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:36 am

jhrosier wrote:The Mosins are interesting rifles, but I can't begin to understand why anyone would bother to rebarrel one, particulary in 30-30.
If you had way too much time on your hands and the means to do the work yourself, the 30-40 Krag or the 7.62x53mm Finnish cartridge would be much better choices. The 7.62x53mm Finn is simply the Russian cartridge using a .308 bullet (in a .308 barrel.)

The quality of the Mosins runs the gamut from incredebly crude wartime manufacture Russian rifles, to the Polish carbines that were finished and fitted as nicely as any modern sporting rifle.
I have a "B" barreled Finn with a .308 bore that shoots very well with either cast or jacketed bullets.
Boxer primed brass is now widely available so there is probably no compelling reason to change caliber.

I had heard so much about the brutal recoil of the Mosin carbines that I had serious reservations about firing my M38 carbine. It turns out that it is a fairly substtantial gun, even with the short barrel, and the light ball (~148gr. bullet) was not much of a challenge when fired offhand. I am sure that the heavy ball (~200gr bullet) would be less pleasant. Like any other centerfire caliber, the 7.62 can be easily loaded to suit casual plinking or serious hunting.

The most serious flaw of all of the Mosins is the split receiver bridge, which makes proper mounting of a standard telescope or receiver sight nearly impossible. The alternative mounting of a scope very high to clear the bolt handle root or forward of the front receiver ring have never been of any interest to me.

Jack

the M-39's all left the factory with a .310 bore.the M28's had a .3095 bore and the M28/30's had a .3082 bore.
with the russians it is a stuff shoot what the bore dia really is.the pre war 91/30's seem to shoot better than the war year ones.the russians were putting them out as fast as they could and all shot M.O.G. (minute of german)there snipers were the the most accurate as they recieved better quality insp and only the very best were taken off the line for use as sniper rifles.
pete

finns

russians

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:19 pm

txpete wrote:
finns

In my sheltered life I had never seen a Mosin Nagant with a (semi) pistol grip, these are very cool, thanks for sharing.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:46 pm

top to bottom.
the finn's are a hoot

42 vkt (valmet)
42 B barrel
1970 sako
M28 sig

OT - Not a lever, but what do you get for under $100 anymore

OT - Not a lever, but what do you get for under $100 anymore

Re: Not a lever, but what do you get for under $100 anymore.