Powder confusion - anyone know the differences... Universal

[86er]

I bought a big jug of powder that says HODGDON UNIVERSAL CLAYS on it. In my load books I see data for UNIVERSAL and data for CLAYS. Then in a friends data book I see UNIVERSAL CLAYS. The data varies quite a bit. Is this 3 different powders or two powders, one of which goes by 2 names? I want to load 200gr LSWC in 45 ACP. I see UNIVERSAL data calling for 4.5-5.2 grains but then I see UNIVERSAL CLAYS data saying 5.8-6.3 grains. Can anyone sort this out?

[2520WHV]

Actually, Hodgdon came out with a series of "Clays" powders. Three different ones to be exact...

The fastest burning one is called just "Clays".. It has a burning rate similar to Red Dot.

Slightly slower burning is "International Clays".... It has a burning rate similar to Green Dot.

Last, and slowest burning is "Universal Clays"... It has a burning rate similar to Unique.

These 'names' have been confusing to many since they first came out! I see Hodgdon now calls them "Clays", "International", and "Universal".

Hopefully that will help with distinguishing the three when looking for the correct data!!

2520WHV

[Les Staley]

Note to self. "Look for Universal"... Keep missing out on Unique.... Thanks 2520WHV !!

[Shasta]

After having purchased a couple unopened bottles of International Clays very inexpensively at a yard sale, I too was confused by this "Clays" terminology, so I went to the Hodgdon website, where they explain each powder:

https://www.hodgdon.com/shotpist.html

I think it is a poor idea to have such very similar names for powders. Confusion on the part of the end user can lead to some real problems!



Shasta

[Marlin32]

I may be wrong, but I Believe Universal refers to Universal Clays in load data.
There is a different poweder titled just Clays, is different from Universal. International Clays is another.
In load data usually refered to as: Universal, Clays and International Clays.

[Catshooter]

Universal is my go-to powder. It meters better than Unique and is much cleaner. It is also flash-suppressed. Like Unique it is extremely versatile and somewhat forgiving.

I started using it in the early 90s and both Clays and UC. I, like some others made the mistake of confusing the two. I picked up my jug of Clays and used UC loading data for my Glock 21. The first round fired blew a pretty half moon in the case, popped the bottom off the mag and dumped the contents everywhere.

No harm other than my pride. Taught me to be more careful.

Very poor judgment on Hodgen's part to have the names so similar. Poor judgment on my part not to catch it, but there you go.

Great powder. I use it in 9mm all the way to 45-70.


Cat

[Hawkeye2]

If there is still some confusion pick up the phone and call Hodgdon. I have called them before and found them to be very friendly and extremely helpful.

"If you have a safety problem or concern - DO NOT EMAIL - CALL US DIRECTLY 7:00am to 5:30pm Central Monday-Thursday : 913-362-9455"

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have and use both Clays and Universal. Never could understand why they came up with those names. Very confusing and easy to mix up.
A friend had loaded a bunch of CAS loads with DOUBLE charges of Clays before he found out what he did. He never shot any before learning about his mistake (lucky). We spent a couple hours pulling bullets.

[Grizz]

seems like a perfectly reasonable reason to

BOYCOTT the stupid company until they

straighten out and fly right

Grizz

[Ray Newman]

Hawkeye2: BINGO! Yup, if in doubt, always best to go right to the manufacturer.

[Catshooter]

Yes of course contact the manufacturer in case of doubt.

But you have to know you some confusion before you can know to call 'em.


Cat

[3leggedturtle]

Yep glad I wasnt the only one with that problem. I just went with loads listed on the can. Also has the weirdest color of any powder I have used.

[piller]

I have used the Universal Clays in reloading 20 gauge, and it works well. I did use a little guesswork, and figured out a load with it to use in shot capsules for my pistols. It is not a published load, but it seems to do well, and it is less than the load used in those calibers for lead bullets. I doubt that I am the only one to use some guesswork in a load, but it is in a very low pressure load.