Rossi Customer Service - - - my recent experience . . .

[AJMD429]

. . . was EXCELLENT. . . or maybe NOT. . . (how can I tell for sure... )

Edit - I'm thinking it was EXCELLENT...see my updated post from 9/8/14)

I put the gun in the FedEx box on July 23rd, and today (Aug 6th) exactly two weeks later, I have it back and will shortly go shoot it (hopefully not to post an angry retraction of this praise ).

I posted on it earlier - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59803, but the essence of it is that the chamber appeared over-sized, as cases were rupturing, which has NEVER occurred in my other, older Rossi 454 Casull's.

I sent it back after calling for an RMA (took 5 minutes on the phone), and included some of the ruptured cases, plus details of the ammunition lot numbers and so on, and 14 days later, the gun has been rebarreled and returned.

I was so 'skeptical' that I even marked the barrel on the returned one, subtly where I could tell if they didn't replace it. I half-expected a return with something like "tested and functioned fine", or "chamber within factory specifications", especially since with my admittedly primitive method of using a micrometer to measure the fired-cases vs. my other Rossi's, I couldn't tell much difference - maybe 0.001" or 0.002" maximum. I decided no point in CerroSafe casting, since I'd not really be satisfied until the gun quit rupturing cases, whether 'in-spec' or not.

My only cost was that the free FedEx label they sent me did not cover full-cost insurance, so I added that on for $35 or so, since I was worried that the 16" versions might not be consistently available in case this one got squished or lost by FedEx.

Anyway, that's better and faster service than I had hoped for.

The only puzzling thing is that in addition to replacing the barrel (which I can tell WAS done), they also listed "replace recoil spring and guide rod", which I'm not sure what is, in a levergun. I didn't disassemble the gun yet, even before sending it back, so I didn't notice any other parts messed up then. I'll have to check the parts manual to see what part(s) they may be referring to.

By the way, the little "Trapper" sized 16" Rossi leverguns are SO handy and convenient, and having one in 454 Casull means having a real potential bear-stopper.

Rossi Tracker in 454 Casull.jpg

[Blaine]

Indiana bears?

[Ysabel Kid]

Indiana bears?

They had them when I lived there...

[Blaine]

Indiana bears?

They had them when I lived there...

I was stationed there 75-77, and 79-83....Did a lot of hunting and fishing. No bears.

[Ysabel Kid]

Indiana bears?

They had them when I lived there...

I was stationed there 75-77, and 79-83....Did a lot of hunting and fishing. No bears.

I lived in the state from 67 - 87, mostly just north of Indianapolis. I remember a story of a bear wandering into down town Fort Wayne. Caused quite a stir. Smaller black bear, and they figured it came down from Michigan.

I also remember black bears in southern Indiana when I lived in Bloomington. You'd see a news story every so often when one again wandered into populated areas.

[Blaine]

Indiana bears?

They had them when I lived there...

I was stationed there 75-77, and 79-83....Did a lot of hunting and fishing. No bears.

I lived in the state from 67 - 87, mostly just north of Indianapolis. I remember a story of a bear wandering into down town Fort Wayne. Caused quite a stir. Smaller black bear, and they figured it came down from Michigan.

I also remember black bears in southern Indiana when I lived in Bloomington. You'd see a news story every so often when one again wandered into populated areas.

You are absolutely correct. I meant no permanent population of any consequence. Boy, Howdy, the coyotes sure are taking over in all 50 states

[Les Staley]

Northern Florida near the St Johns River north of DeLand is the only place in the lower forty eight I've ever seen "Bear Crossing" signs.. Tells me anything is possible.. Indiana? Why not? I've got a Rossi Trapper stainless in 44 mag...should be good to go..Les

[Griff]

Indiana bears?

They had them when I lived there...

I was stationed there 75-77, and 79-83....Did a lot of hunting and fishing. No bears.

I lived in the state from 67 - 87, mostly just north of Indianapolis. I remember a story of a bear wandering into down town Fort Wayne. Caused quite a stir. Smaller black bear, and they figured it came down from Michigan.
I also remember black bears in southern Indiana when I lived in Bloomington. You'd see a news story every so often when one again wandered into populated areas.

Probably swam the Ohio River from KY!!

[Blaine]

Bears are sort of, kind of back in SE Ohio. They swim from W.Virginia, and Western Penn. There might be a hundred or so. Like elk in Tenn, it would be outstanding to have a season someday.

[plowboy 45]

I really like my new model 92 in 45 LC
Gonna do alittle work on the wood myself
Other than that it's fine

Bear crossing signs on I 20, Waverly LA.

[AJMD429]

OK, just fired a magazine-full (7 shots) of Winchester X454C1 260 grain JSP's...

Casull Split Questoin.jpg

Casull Split Questoin 2.jpg

What y'all think...???

(P.S. as to the 'bear' issue - remember guys; I'm the one who told my wife the reason I needed a 375 Ruger was because I thought I saw Cape Buffalo tracks in the creekbed back behind our house....

[Buck Elliott]

GET YOUR MONEY BACK !!!

[Streetstar]

Indiana bears?

There are "Bears" in all 50 states i imagine ---- and just as, if not more, frightening than the ones who walk on 4 legs

[Chuck 100 yd]

What buck said! That is unacceptable. They must have not even test fired it.

[Rusty]

OK, just fired a magazine-full (7 shots) of Winchester X454C1 260 grain JSP's...

Casull Split Questoin.jpg

Casull Split Questoin 2.jpg

What y'all think...???

(P.S. as to the 'bear' issue - remember guys; I'm the one who told my wife the reason I needed a 375 Ruger was because I thought I saw Cape Buffalo tracks in the creekbed back behind our house....

WAIT A MINUTE...You told her there were buff tracks in the creek bed and she bought it?

[MacEntyre]

WAIT A MINUTE...You told her there were buff tracks in the creek bed and she bought it?

Is the Good Lord punishing him for that lie, with split cases?

Perhaps there is nothing wrong with Rossi Customer Service...

[AJMD429]

WAIT A MINUTE...You told her there were buff tracks in the creek bed and she bought it?

Well, let's just say we have an 'understanding' - I have to at least provide a 'token explanation'...

Plausibility isn't required...

[.45colt]

I bet if you did need to shoot the bear there would not be the time to put on ear protection first...it's cool but has to be loud. .

[J Miller]

AJ,

Try a different brand or two of ammo before you make a decision. I've had brand new .45 Colt cases do that from both Win and Rem. Though not total separation.
If it still does that then I agree with Buck.

Joe

[Griff]

I agree with Buck now.

Although... that may be a nefarious scheme to keep pressures to something reasonable in that rifle...

[Buck Elliott]

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the pressure developed by the .454.. The fault lies in the design/manufacture of the mechanism used to contain that pressure.. Rossi's "package" is inherently unsuited to the task, and always has been.. The '92 platform is only barely marginally capable, if made to the most exacting standards.. The Rossis are not..

A firearm that cannot stand up to regular useage with full-power loads for its chambering is unaccaptable, and should never be allowed on the market..

Just my 2¢ worth...

[AJMD429]

Well, it is a classic case of having to get something that isn't quite what you want, since "they don't make them".

I have plenty of firearms in powerful chamberings if I really need raw power (maybe a cape buffalo will escape from some travelling zoo someday that just happens to be near my house); My 375 Ruger will drop anything on the planet in a pinch, and anything 'North American' with ease, and my 338 Lapua would do it from even farther away, and if I have to do it with a levergun, I have 45-70, 444 Marlin, and 500 S&W to choose from.

Why the 454 Casull levergun, then...???

1. I really LIKE the Rossi 92's - not as costly as a real Winchester, and I don't feel guilty D&T'ing them for Williams FP sights like I would with a true 'vintage' collector gun.

2. I really like the 16" barrel length (though the 20" and 24" are tons of fun too); it is perfect for what most of us call 'woods walking', due to being so compact and handy.

3. I especially like the 'tube loading' option; loading fast without scratching the sides of my brass (I know I can polish the loading port) or having the tip of a glove get pinched in there in the winter. More importantly, UN-loading that way is nice, not having to cycle rounds through a sideways-held firearm indoors, glasses fogging up (again a 'winter' thing), and fingers too numb to catch all the ejected brass. NO other 92 clones I'm aware of have that feature, aside from the 454 Casull Rossi's - although I have seen one 20" Rossi in 44 Magnum with the tube-loading option.

4. I like 357 Mag, & 44 Mag, in the 92 action, as they are modern, the ammo is easily available, and they get the job done. (I think having a 32-20 and 44-40 would be an even better pair, were it not for the 'ammo availability' thing.) However, I really like 45 Colt best, even though it isn't 'authentic' any more than the 44 Mag - I'm more interested in lobbing big bullets at 1200 fps than I am in re-enacting some stagecoach shootout.

5. So, what I really should get would be a 16" Rossi in 45 Colt that has the tube-loading feature.

Unfortunately, "they don't make those", so the next best thing is their 454 Casull; the only other differences from the 45 Colt are a few minor 'structural' changes for handling recoil, and the recoil pad, which adds a bit of length, but isn't a bad thing. SO - I get me a shorty in 454 Casull...what's wrong with that...??? The only hassle is either having to use the longer brass, or get the extra bullet-jump and 'crud-ring' if I use the 45 Colt brass. I don't own (or desire to own) a 454 Casull handgun, and all of the 45 Colt firearms I have are modern 'Ruger load' ones, so there's no real benefit to having the extra-long Casull cases for keeping loads separate or anything like that. Unless I lived in 'bear country', I don't think I'd ever live to see a measurable difference between 'Ruger only' 45 Colt loads and 454 Casull loads for my use, and in fact - I more often use 'cowboy' level 45 Colt loads, because I'm liable to be totin' the gun while doing chores or out taking wildflower photos or bird watching - not times I'm likely to have hearing protectors on.

So - since my older 20" stainless 454 Rossi has functioned well, but I wanted a shorter one, I tried getting this 16" one, but it split too many cases due to a presumably oversized chamber. The split case after re-barreling may be an isolated 'brittle-brass' thing, so I will fire a bunch of other brands and see. I've had a couple batches of Winchester brass in 357 that split in every gun I fired them in.

The saga continues...

Sometimes I think I should have just paid a gunsmith to shorten the 20" one to 16", but there aren't many gunsmiths who can do stuff like that any more. The other issue would be whether or not to spend the extra money to re-barrel in 45 Colt, but I'm thinking the gun's innards might need swapped to feed 45 Colt vs. Casull, and that's yet another thing I don't know any local gunsmiths who are up to doing that sort of thing.

Or I could 'settle' for just using my 20" one. . . but I'm a spoiled 21st Century American. . .

...........

[Buck Elliott]

Well, as long as folks will settle for Mediocre, manufacturers will keep cranking out Mediocre...

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the pressure developed by the .454.. The fault lies in the design/manufacture of the mechanism used to contain that pressure.. Rossi's "package" is inherently unsuited to the task, and always has been.. The '92 platform is only barely marginally capable, if made to the most exacting standards.. The Rossis are not..

A firearm that cannot stand up to regular useage with full-power loads for its chambering is unaccaptable, and should never be allowed on the market..

Just my 2¢ worth...

That has not been my experience. Early on they did have some incorrect headspace issues. But, the current guns are holding up just fine.

[Buck Elliott]

Steve, you can't ignore or deny the fact that Rossi's inattention to detail - in design, manufacture, fit and finish - has provided you with a fairly steady stream of customers over the years..

Not a bad thing... Just sayin'...

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Steve, you can't ignore or deny the fact that Rossi's inattention to detail - in design, manufacture, fit and finish - has provided you with a fairly steady stream of customers over the years..

Not a bad thing... Just sayin'...

The fit and finish is definitely less than perfect. But that is also why it cost 30% to 50% less than the others. Fit and finish is pretty much all hand work which add lots of man-hours.

As for the design, there is nothing wrong with it. Rossi has even made some improvements. The design of the cart guides was changed to accommodate straight wall pistol ammo. So, they tend to be less ammo sensitive than the others.

But, hey that's just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

[AJMD429]

Well, since all the bad/split brass WAS Winchester, even though I'm pretty sure the first gun had an oversize chamber, this second barrel seems to headspace ok (I even have a gauge), and only split one so far.

So, I fired half a box of Federals I had and they all did fine. I think I'll fire the rest of my Winchesters in the older gun and see if they still split in that one, and get some more Federals to shoot in the new one.

Expensive, but it will give me an idea what the deal is.

[1894c]

Indiana bears?

actually I thought the "BEARS" were in Chicago...just saying...

[jh45gun]

I am more than satisfied with my 45 Colt Ranch Hand.

[AJMD429]

I bought three boxes of MagTech a couple days ago, and plan to shoot them in the rebarreled gun, as I think I had a bad one obviously but tend to wonder if the Winchester brass isn't unusually brittle (I wonder if I can test that by taking a couple cases and seeing how flat I can crimp them with a pair of pliers before they crack). So far, half a box of MagTech's no splits.

[firefuzz]

(P.S. as to the 'bear' issue - remember guys; I'm the one who told my wife the reason I needed a 375 Ruger was because I thought I saw Cape Buffalo tracks in the creekbed back behind our house....

LOL. I told my wife I keep my .375 H&H due to the rumor the wildlife department has released some cloned T-rex's in our area to help control our deer population. She looked me straight in the eye and asked if my last wife was blonde.

Rob

[AJMD429]

Shot a bunch of MagTechs in the 16" and they all looked good (no splits). Shooting the Winchester in the older 20" and seeing if any split (that gun has shot hundreds of rounds without problems).

Of interest I noticed the extractor and bolts are blued steel in the newer gun



In comparing the two guns, I like the compact nature of the 16" one, and I must say it really seems to recoil the same, or possibly even less than the 20" one, but of course the loads were different. Both were 260 grain, but the MagTech is 'rated' 1800 fps or 1871 ft-lb (unknown what barrel length they are referring to) and the Winchester is 'rated' 1800 fps for their current 260 grain loading, but the only Super-X one listed on-line now is 250 grain at 1350 fps or so, so who knows. If it is truly that 'light' a load, I'm thinking the split case may be bad brass, plus, I don't know the vintage of that Super-X either, I guess.

If it weren't raining and I'd had more time, I'd have chronographed these loads and done some accuracy testing.
Anyway, at least I'm getting in some range-time...

[AJMD429]

Well. . . maybe I should be griping about Winchester here a bit.

The first gun was undoubtedly rupturing way too many cases, and that same ammo was not rupturing in my other two Rossi's, so it WAS defective.

However, I've now fired a couple hundred rounds of non-Winchester ammo through the newbie 16" after it got rebarreled, and none of those cases ruptured.

[Merle]

Well, it is a classic case of having to get something that isn't quite what you want, since "they don't make them".

I have plenty of firearms in powerful chamberings if I really need raw power (maybe a cape buffalo will escape from some travelling zoo someday that just happens to be near my house); My 375 Ruger will drop anything on the planet in a pinch, and anything 'North American' with ease, and my 338 Lapua would do it from even farther away, and if I have to do it with a levergun, I have 45-70, 444 Marlin, and 500 S&W to choose from.

Why the 454 Casull levergun, then...???

1. I really LIKE the Rossi 92's - not as costly as a real Winchester, and I don't feel guilty D&T'ing them for Williams FP sights like I would with a true 'vintage' collector gun.

2. I really like the 16" barrel length (though the 20" and 24" are tons of fun too); it is perfect for what most of us call 'woods walking', due to being so compact and handy.

3. I especially like the 'tube loading' option; loading fast without scratching the sides of my brass (I know I can polish the loading port) or having the tip of a glove get pinched in there in the winter. More importantly, UN-loading that way is nice, not having to cycle rounds through a sideways-held firearm indoors, glasses fogging up (again a 'winter' thing), and fingers too numb to catch all the ejected brass. NO other 92 clones I'm aware of have that feature, aside from the 454 Casull Rossi's - although I have seen one 20" Rossi in 44 Magnum with the tube-loading option.

4. I like 357 Mag, & 44 Mag, in the 92 action, as they are modern, the ammo is easily available, and they get the job done. (I think having a 32-20 and 44-40 would be an even better pair, were it not for the 'ammo availability' thing.) However, I really like 45 Colt best, even though it isn't 'authentic' any more than the 44 Mag - I'm more interested in lobbing big bullets at 1200 fps than I am in re-enacting some stagecoach shootout.

5. So, what I really should get would be a 16" Rossi in 45 Colt that has the tube-loading feature.

Unfortunately, "they don't make those", so the next best thing is their 454 Casull; the only other differences from the 45 Colt are a few minor 'structural' changes for handling recoil, and the recoil pad, which adds a bit of length, but isn't a bad thing. SO - I get me a shorty in 454 Casull...what's wrong with that...??? The only hassle is either having to use the longer brass, or get the extra bullet-jump and 'crud-ring' if I use the 45 Colt brass. I don't own (or desire to own) a 454 Casull handgun, and all of the 45 Colt firearms I have are modern 'Ruger load' ones, so there's no real benefit to having the extra-long Casull cases for keeping loads separate or anything like that. Unless I lived in 'bear country', I don't think I'd ever live to see a measurable difference between 'Ruger only' 45 Colt loads and 454 Casull loads for my use, and in fact - I more often use 'cowboy' level 45 Colt loads, because I'm liable to be totin' the gun while doing chores or out taking wildflower photos or bird watching - not times I'm likely to have hearing protectors on.

So - since my older 20" stainless 454 Rossi has functioned well, but I wanted a shorter one, I tried getting this 16" one, but it split too many cases due to a presumably oversized chamber. The split case after re-barreling may be an isolated 'brittle-brass' thing, so I will fire a bunch of other brands and see. I've had a couple batches of Winchester brass in 357 that split in every gun I fired them in.

The saga continues...

Sometimes I think I should have just paid a gunsmith to shorten the 20" one to 16", but there aren't many gunsmiths who can do stuff like that any more. The other issue would be whether or not to spend the extra money to re-barrel in 45 Colt, but I'm thinking the gun's innards might need swapped to feed 45 Colt vs. Casull, and that's yet another thing I don't know any local gunsmiths who are up to doing that sort of thing.

Or I could 'settle' for just using my 20" one. . . but I'm a spoiled 21st Century American. . .

...........

It may be that the chamber is a little too deep. The front of the case will expand & grip the chamber walls, forcing the back half of the case to flow backwards & separate. I have seen this before, so it's not totally unknown.

[Buck Elliott]

It wouldn't make any difference if the chamber was reamed deep enough for the .460 S&W... The .454 (along with the .460 and the .45 Colt) seat - or "headspace" - on the rim, at the chamber mouth..

FA .454 chambers are Basically cylindrical, but are tapered (.001" included, as I recall) but don't know if other makers follow suit...

Sloppy headspace in the rifle will definitely cause stretching and seperation..

[Merle]

It wouldn't make any difference if the chamber was reamed deep enough for the .460 S&W... The .454 (along with the .460 and the .45 Colt) seat - or "headspace" - on the rim, at the chamber mouth..

FA .454 chambers are Basically cylindrical, but are tapered (.001" included, as I recall) but don't know if other makers follow suit...

Sloppy headspace in the rifle will definitely cause stretching and seperation..

Yep, I overlooked that...